Nicolas Pepe: The Nutmeg Express!

[Maybe]

Per 90 mins Pepe is inferior to Willian in terms of:

Touches
Possession lost
Passes attempted
Passes completed
Pass accuracy
Cross accuracy
Take-on success
Ground duel-success

etc... as well as a bunch of other key stats. And once again I'm not seeing anyone rush to defend Willian despite a fairly identical distribution of minutes.

Mate I'm not disputing that Pepe has been improving lately, so if we want to mention that then we should be talking about his recent games. I'm all for that, go right ahead. But when we talk in generalities and talk about the season as a whole to try and defend the totality of his performances, that's what I'm against. Because prior to his recent run of tidy performances, he was fairly poor before that and no amount of stats can convince me of what my eyes saw otherwise.

Because as I'm highlighting if we go down that route then people could make the same arguments for Willian despites his tangible performances being poor. And you could also factor in that Willian was a free vs 72 million Pepe etc.. You're flogging a dead horse at this stage. For me personally the current assessment should be: Pepe had a bad/indifferent 1st season, had a bad 1/2-2/3rd of this season but he's currently getting better so lets wait and see if that continues and improves.

There is no reason to attack one or the other (or defend), both players bring something to our game and can be used within the system we have.
If we need someone tidy on the ball and safe in possession, Willian will always be the preferred option, but if we need someone who will make things happen, it should be Pepe.
Maybe that's why Pepe comes in late when we are down, but I feel it's very often too late.

These statistics cr*p needs to stop, most of Willian's assists this season were complete luck. You don't bring Willian on to get goals or assists, that's something you get from Saka/Pepe/ESR, you have him on the pitch to keep the possession.

It's on Arteta to make the right choice when to play them, and I'm not convinced that often by his choices

 

[DanDare]

Only way is up for Pepe, only way is down for Willian

 

[Trilly]

Nah, it merely makes another total mockery of stats without context. Stop lying to yourself ffs

Lying to myself about what? You’re such a goal post shifter it’s unbelievable.

You told me in another thread that I don’t want to look at Pepe’s stats as it wouldn’t support my argument. I’ve looked at them, it does and now you start talking about context? So what’s the context here anyway?

 

[Trilly]

Pepe has 6 goal contributions in 1053 PL minutes. Willian has 5 goal contributions in 1198 PL minutes.

If anyone is trying to defend Pepe based on uncontextualised stats or even remotely imply that he's anywhere near Saka, then the EXACT same can be done for Willian.... So where is the Willian defence force?

Context?

Pepe’s G+A per 90 and xG+xA per 90 are both higher than Willian’s. Why have you brought up a player who’s performing worse in more minutes and talking like you’ve done something?

What’s the context that you want to include? That Willian had played more minutes? That Willian’s last few assists have come from simple lay offs or set pieces? That Willian’s minutes have come from 4 more starts? That Willian was brought in to start ahead of Pepe and was given a massive run of games before he undoubtedly stunk the place out and got dropped? That Willian is an experienced PL winger who knows this league inside out? What about the clear danger that Pepe shows when he’s playing, the defensive attention he attracts on the pitch or the penalties that he’s been robbed of?

You’re yapping about context then bring up a load of stats while failing to apply context yourself. The reason I didn’t apply context to those stats is because I don’t need to. The above paragraph is clear to anyone with two eyes. So again, what’s your point? What a weird frustrating post Camel.

 

[Trilly]

Kaboom!!!! They wont want to hear that. @Trilly wont, anyway.

I won’t want to hear that Pepe is more productive than Willian? Remind me, what are attacking players typically judged on?

Put the pipe down old lad, think you’ve forgotten my original mission.

 

[GunnerShy]

Also when talking about goal contributions, it's perverse to give the same rating to an assist as a goal. Whilst undoubtedly assist can be useful, there is a reason we have awards like the Pichichi and Golden boot but no real assist equivalent.

 

[Token Yank]

Also when talking about goal contributions, it's perverse to give the same rating to an assist as a goal. Whilst undoubtedly assist can be useful, there is a reason we have awards like the Pichichi and Golden boot but no real assist equivalent.

Exactly. Correct me if I am wrong, but Pepe's brilliant ball in the NLD did not count as an assist but Willian's simple 5 yard sideways ball played to Auba when he cut inside a put in the net (I believe against Burnley) does? That tells you all you need to know about the assist metric.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Exactly. Correct me if I am wrong, but Pepe's brilliant ball in the NLD did not count as an assist but Willian's simple 5 yard sideways ball played to Auba when he cut inside a put in the net (I believe against Burnley) does? That tells you all you need to know about the assist metric.

A Swedish politician once said that there are lies, damn lies and then statistics...

Statistics can be of help but depending on what they actually measure and how they are gathered they can be quite misleading especially when the sample size isn’t big like it is for most football statistics. It really isn’t a ton of data points. If a player makes 10 assists a year but two of those were cheap easy passes that is after all a large proportion of all that player’s assists.

 

[samshere]

Yeah assists are bs. Saka dribbled into the box from the half line and nketiah played a 2 yard box and got the assist.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

A a couple of yard basic pass from Willian to the goal scorer should be looked down upon or isn't a real assist? Okay. Well we're taking away a fair portion of Ozils or Fabregas' assists too then. It's a silly way to look at things. I'm not saying that assist numbers give you the whole picture but generally you'll get a fairly broad overview as to how well creative players are doing by them.

That Pepe pass to Laca against Sp**s was an absolute beauty, but it wasn't an assist technically and so it won't count as one. Plenty of players have passed the ball onto a team mate who's been fouled and the team has scored from the subsequent freekick. It's not like Pepe's the first player this has ever happened too and it doesn't take anything away from the quality of his pass

 

[Moah]

Context?

Pepe’s G+A per 90 and xG+xA per 90 are both higher than Willian’s. Why have you brought up a player who’s performing worse in more minutes and talking like you’ve done something?

What’s the context that you want to include? That Willian had played more minutes? That Willian’s last few assists have come from simple lay offs or set pieces? That Willian’s minutes have come from 4 more starts? That Willian was brought in to start ahead of Pepe and was given a massive run of games before he undoubtedly stunk the place out and got dropped? That Willian is an experienced PL winger who knows this league inside out? What about the clear danger that Pepe shows when he’s playing, the defensive attention he attracts on the pitch or the penalties that he’s been robbed of?

You’re yapping about context then bring up a load of stats while failing to apply context yourself. The reason I didn’t apply context to those stats is because I don’t need to. The above paragraph is clear to anyone with two eyes. So again, what’s your point? What a weird frustrating post Camel.

Add to that Willian started the comparatively easier premier league games. Arteta started Pepe on both games vs City.

 

[Moah]

A a couple of yard basic pass from Willian to the goal scorer should be looked down upon or isn't a real assist? Okay. Well we're taking away a fair portion of Ozils or Fabregas' assists too then. It's a silly way to look at things. I'm not saying that assist numbers give you the whole picture but generally you'll get a fairly broad overview as to how well creative players are doing by them.

That Pepe pass to Laca against Sp**s was an absolute beauty, but it wasn't an assist technically and so it won't count as one. Plenty of players have passed the ball onto a team mate who's been fouled and the team has scored from the subsequent freekick. It's not like Pepe's the first player this has ever happened too and it doesn't take anything away from the quality of his pass

Its you guys that brought up about how a statistic could be misleading and when you see evidence in Pepe's favor its no longer applicable?
Get your arguments straight people.

 

[Trilly]

A a couple of yard basic pass from Willian to the goal scorer should be looked down upon or isn't a real assist? Okay. Well we're taking away a fair portion of Ozils or Fabregas' assists too then. It's a silly way to look at things. I'm not saying that assist numbers give you the whole picture but generally you'll get a fairly broad overview as to how well creative players are doing by them.

That Pepe pass to Laca against Sp**s was an absolute beauty, but it wasn't an assist technically and so it won't count as one. Plenty of players have passed the ball onto a team mate who's been fouled and the team has scored from the subsequent freekick. It's not like Pepe's the first player this has ever happened too and it doesn't take anything away from the quality of his pass

Yeah I’m not one to look down on assists if the sample size is large enough, you won’t really find me making that argument. But the poster mentioned ignoring context while conveniently ignoring all the context that applied to his own point.

For example a chance created is literally a pass that results in an effort at goal, pretty useless in isolation but over the span of a season it does tend to agree with the eye test when discussing the best creators in the league.

 

[Trilly]

Its you guys that brought up about how a statistic could be misleading and when you see evidence in Pepe's favor its no longer applicable?
Get your arguments straight people.

Tbf that wasn’t him, just typical Jury ignoring any stat (even though it was him who dared me to look at the stats!) that proves him wrong and his mate Camel. Funny how neither of them have replied since, guess my work here is done.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Yeah I’m not one to look down on assists if the sample size is large enough, you won’t really find me making that argument. But the poster mentioned ignoring context while conveniently ignoring all the context that applied to his own point.

For example a chance created is literally a pass that results in an effort at goal, pretty useless in isolation but over the span of a season it does tend to agree with the eye test when discussing the best creators in the league.

I think there are always going to be anomalies with these sort of stats anyway.

I don't think anyone can seriously say Willian has been a better player than Pepe this season whatever the assist stats say or completed passes etc.

Willian's always been a bit weird to me his whole time time in England. Don't get me wrong he's a good player but he's always seemed the sort who's stats exceed the level he plays at, it's weird. You could make a decent argument that the reverse has been true for Pepe this season to be fair.

 

[Kav]

I think there are always going to be anomalies with these sort of stats anyway.

I don't think anyone can seriously say Willian has been a better player than Pepe this season whatever the assist stats say or completed passes etc.

Willian's always been a bit weird to me his whole time time in England. Don't get me wrong he's a good player but he's always seemed the sort who's stats exceed the level he plays at, it's weird. You could make a decent argument that the reverse has been true for Pepe this season to be fair.

Generally agree with he sentiments expressed here, save and except that his last two years at Chelsea he was arguably their best player, he was that consistent in terms of affecting play. He wasn't always scoring but whenever you watched them he was the one making thins happen for them.

Unfortunately it seems he has gone into early retirement after moving to the emirates.

 

[Trilly]

I think there are always going to be anomalies with these sort of stats anyway.

I don't think anyone can seriously say Willian has been a better player than Pepe this season whatever the assist stats say or completed passes etc.

Willian's always been a bit weird to me his whole time time in England. Don't get me wrong he's a good player but he's always seemed the sort who's stats exceed the level he plays at, it's weird. You could make a decent argument that the reverse has been true for Pepe this season to be fair.

Good friend of mine is a Chelsea fan and the general consensus with Willian is that he’s always been frustrating. One good game, one average game, one frustrating game, that type of player.

He’s always racked up the stats (especially recently) by being on set pieces so yeah. In hindsight the signing looks awful, him and Pepe finished last season with similar numbers but one was on an upwards trajectory while Willian is only going to get worse.

 

[A_M Iniesta]

Pepe tear **** up tommorow , be a killa for us and make it close to impossible to be dropped moving forward , i have my doubts on you still but your having a good renaissance

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Pepe tear **** up tommorow , be a killa for us and make it close to impossible to be dropped moving forward , i have my doubts on you still but your having a good renaissance

He is improving and that is really promising. He clearly has plenty of talent and must be an absolute nightmare to play against given how unpredictable he can be. His whole movement pattern and ball handling is just different. It has this erratic quality to it.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Its you guys that brought up about how a statistic could be misleading and when you see evidence in Pepe's favor its no longer applicable?
Get your arguments straight people.

Someone else made those comments, not me.

Why should I have to defend their comments, just because they may generally hold similar views on a player to me?