Our slow and lethargic football

[shootxhakashoot]

True but the difference under Wenger was that even on bad days where the football wasn't perfect, chances were still being created and let's be honest, there weren't all that many even in the worst of times. We always looked like we could score a couple under Wenger, it was just whether the clowns at the back would let more in. We've now got even worse clowns at the back and we don't look like putting the ball in the net for 3-4 matches on the bounce.

All of this is residue from Dein leaving by the way. Forget Vieira, forget Henry, forget Fabregas, JVP etc. We have never adequately replaced David Dein and certainly not with the agent gobbling chuckle brothers we've got in place now. What David Dein had was not just connections and ambition but vision. There were very few, if any round pegs being put in square holes under his watch. He and Wenger had an idea of what won trophies and every single year they picked up players who fit that mould. We used to have a squad so well put together that someone like Kanu or Wiltord could come off the bench and hold the fort for Henry for weeks at a time. We could deal with Bergkamp not traveling in Europe. Now we look hopeless without Granit F*cking Xhaka. It's tragic and hilarious at the same time.

Arteta is going to flame out unless an actual archetype for the players required in each position on the pitch is established and adhered to in the transfer market. That's how you create a squad with depth, quality and the ability to execute your vision. Will you get a few wrong? Of course. Even Dein did but he hit far more often than he missed and his vision in collaboration with Wenger's innovative(at the time) view of winning football created a juggernaut. Unfortunately, I don't think we have that kind of intelligence at the board level and that's before we even mention the Kroenkes or a budget. We could have City's cash and I don't know we'd look any better out there because there's no architect, just some idiots with mortar and poorly cut bricks.

The higher ups and indeed managers talk about a plan and vision. Ill admit I saw that under wenger and we at least played some incredible.football robably up until the early 2010s. It was just a bad one for the english game if you want to win things and shat all over his early work at the club, which as you say had the backing of David dein behind wenger so spot on.
The problem is wenger got carried away with his "vision" after thebstadium mpve and dein leaving and nothing has been the same since.
Everyone talks about arteta and his vision. Ive seen nothing different until now in our style or our signings. If his vision is the same as peps it will fail as we dont have money to spend and if its wengers it isnt going to work as per usual thats what worries me. Who we go after in the summer will tell us a lot.more about this vision and whether it amounts to anything. Im telling you now if we go for more players with a weak mentality and physique at the back and in the middle nothing is going to change. We need hunger, bravery and strength not more tippy tappy midgets who can pick a pass but dont want to compete. Arteta needs to prove he has his own ideas so lets wait and see as this seaaon is a write off.

 

[squallman]

Xhaka-Torreira is the only midfield pairing that has worked since Coq-Cazorla. Anything else has looked weak and unbalanced.

Neither of those midfields worked in my opinion. Coquelin-Cazorla was two guys doing the job that one midfielder should have been doing. Even then it wasn't enough because Wenger had Ramsey shoehorned in there just to shore it up.

People really look at that pairing with rose tinted glasses. Coquelin couldn't pass and Cazorla could not tackle. Either of them was eaten alive in midfield without someone else doing what they couldn't.

I'd prefer two strong central midfielders who make each other better, over two players who both have flaws in one aspect of their midfield play.

Xhaka-Torreira was more of the same if we're being honest. Two Frankenstein midfields.

I can't remember the last competent midfield we had. Vieira and Gilberto?

 

[GunnerShy]

Neither of those midfields worked in my opinion. Coquelin-Cazorla was two guys doing the job that one midfielder should have been doing. Even then it wasn't enough because Wenger had Ramsey shoehorned in there just to shore it up.

People really look at that pairing with rose tinted glasses. Coquelin couldn't pass and Cazorla could not tackle. Either of them was eaten alive in midfield without someone else doing what they couldn't.

I'd prefer two strong central midfielders who make each other better, over two players who both have flaws in one aspect of their midfield play.

Xhaka-Torreira was more of the same if we're being honest. Two Frankenstein midfields.

I can't remember the last competent midfield we had. Vieira and Gilberto?

I think you're unfair on Cazorla. He was a brilliant player who didn't need to run round raking his studs like Bissouma to do a job in midfield. He wasn't a defensive midfielder, just a very good central midfielder more comparable with Xavi or Iniesta. The shortfall of that pair was Coq.

 

[Riou]

Caz-Coq while not a great midfield, was easily better than Xhaka-Lucas.

Played much, MUCH better football with Santi and Francis...while not perfect, we looked better as a team then.

 

[Big Poppa]

Neither of those midfields worked in my opinion. Coquelin-Cazorla was two guys doing the job that one midfielder should have been doing. Even then it wasn't enough because Wenger had Ramsey shoehorned in there just to shore it up.

People really look at that pairing with rose tinted glasses. Coquelin couldn't pass and Cazorla could not tackle. Either of them was eaten alive in midfield without someone else doing what they couldn't.

I'd prefer two strong central midfielders who make each other better, over two players who both have flaws in one aspect of their midfield play.

Xhaka-Torreira was more of the same if we're being honest. Two Frankenstein midfields.

I can't remember the last competent midfield we had. Vieira and Gilberto?

This goes back to Wenger's final years but I'm confused why we insist on only playing a 2 man midfield. Most teams these days use 3, so whatever combination we deploy, especially if it lacks athleticism, has a high probability of being smothered.

The best balanced midfield in recent times was Modric, Kroos and Casemeiro. City got record points with Fernandinho, Silva and De Bruyne. Liverpool reached consecutive CL finals with Wijnaldum, Fabinho/Keita and Henderson.

Yet here at Arsenal we're still trying to do it with 2 because...?

 

[GunnerShy]

This goes back to Wenger's final years but I'm confused why we insist on only playing a 2 man midfield. Most teams these days use 3, so whatever combination we deploy, especially if it lacks athleticism, has a high probability of being smothered.

The best balanced midfield in recent times was Modric, Kroos and Casemeiro. City got record points with Fernandinho, Silva and De Bruyne. Liverpool reached consecutive CL finals with Wijnaldum, Fabinho/Keita and Henderson.

Yet here at Arsenal we're still trying to do it with 2 because...?

To for Özil in at 10. To play a front 4. That's the reason. We had a guy who was the best 10 in the world. Meanwhile v the rest of the football World was moving away from it.

 

[Gunner-Union]

A midfield 3 is the way to go and I think arteta wants that but we don’t have midfielders that can do it.
You can play 1 dm with 2 am but even then the am have to track back and defend the days of strolling around just attacking are over.
Or
3 workhorses
Or
2 b2b with either an am or a dm depending on opposition Which is prob the best mix
We need so much work ffs
A cb, 3 mids, maybe a left winger and a right back and get rid of all the crap we have

 

[Big Poppa]

To for Özil in at 10. To play a front 4. That's the reason. We had a guy who was the best 10 in the world. Meanwhile v the rest of the football World was moving away from it.

I was hoping you wouldn’t bring up Özil but you’re right. Talented as he was, the reason why he was regarded as the best number 10 though is because hardly any teams used them anymore. Besides Sneijder I can’t think of many who shared that role at his peak.

In the 90s it was far more common - Zidane, Totti, Rui Costa, Laudrup, Djalminha, Ortega, Aimar, Okocha etc but football was slower, more defensive and roles were more rigid which necessitated it.

Nowadays every player, even sometimes the goalkeeper contributes to creating chances and every player, even the striker, contributes to restricting them. Messi and Ronaldo are thé only anomalies.

The truth is it feels like we got left behind, especially with midfield.

 

[nick gould]

I was watching Liverpool vs Everton. The Liverpool midfielders are not that good we know that, but there is sense of urgency in the whole team. It's a bit slow when the centre-backs are passing to each other, but as soon as the ball gets to mid or full backs it's quick pass. Their passes are not special, but they show urgency. I just wish our manager can instill that in the players. Ask them to play as if they care. That shouldn't be too much to ask for.

 

[chessygoal]

Caz-Coq while not a great midfield, was easily better than Xhaka-Lucas.

Played much, MUCH better football with Santi and Francis...while not perfect, we looked better as a team then.

It just shows how great of a coach Wenger was during the early Emirates era. Let's not forget that he managed to play great football with a midfield made of Denilson and Song.
It went sideways at some point, and Wenger got outplayed by more modern tactics but for the longest times he massively overperformed with the players he had.
We can blame the players all we want, an Arsenal coach should be able to propose something better than what we have seen for the last 2 games.

 

[TriniGunner]

I've been saying for months to use the youth players like Nelson, Eddie and the quick players bring back our attack with pace. Our other problem is that we have small diminutive players who could hardly bully anyone on the pitch.

 

[Jasard]

This is where Edu needs to earn his wage really. Define our goals in terms of play style and build a squad that can do it that survives through different head coaches. Literally his job. Without doing favours for his mate Kia.

We have a squad slung together without a real aim or an idea of having a cohesive unit.
Our transfer policy mostly seems to be about either bargain hunting or going all in on one person with no in between. It's how Liverpool got to where they are, they had a solid plan and exucuted it. We haven't had a real plan for years so our football looks equally clueless.

 

[squallman]

Caz-Coq while not a great midfield, was easily better than Xhaka-Lucas.

Played much, MUCH better football with Santi and Francis...while not perfect, we looked better as a team then.

To be fair, its not a tall order to be better than any midfield combination that includes Xhaka in it.

He doesn't score or create very often. He isn't good at intercepting or breaking up the play. His tackling isn't anything to write home about

What does Xhaka contribute? Long balls?

Swiss Denilson

 

[Jasard]

To be fair, its not a tall order to be better than any midfield combination that includes Xhaka in it.

He doesn't score or create very often. He isn't good at intercepting or breaking up the play. His tackling isn't anything to write home about

What does Xhaka contribute? Long balls?

Swiss Denilson

His passing is absurdly overrated, I feel like people heard he was a good passer before he signed and have failed to form their own opinion since.

 

[gamechannel]

So basically, we don't have any good midfielders to play a 3 man midfield that suits the modern game. Good luck finding 3 capable midfield starters that can retain possession, move the ball, protect the back 4 AND create when we have so many other holes to plug. I have seen nothing from AMN, Willock and Guendouzi that suggests they will develop into that caliber.

We are utterly screwed. Serious investment needed.

 

[kash2]

So basically, we don't have any good midfielders to play a 3 man midfield that suits the modern game. Good luck finding 3 capable midfield starters that can retain possession, move the ball, protect the back 4 AND create when we have so many other holes to plug. I have seen nothing from AMN, Willock and Guendouzi that suggests they will develop into that caliber.

We are utterly screwed. Serious investment needed.

look ...the players are professionals doing a job. Their manager is their boss. He makes sure they dont slack.

However if you undermine the manager, the culture of ****tiness and shiftiness takes hold. Man U found out the hard way and now that they have backed Ole ...the players are finally coming around to the fact that they wont be able to hide or wait out the manager.

Arsenal by thinking that their manager was a dictator and needed to be cut down to size, have killed the professional culture at the club.

 

[gamechannel]

look ...the players are professionals doing a job. Their manager is their boss. He makes sure they dont slack.

However if you undermine the manager, the culture of ****tiness and shiftiness takes hold. Man U found out the hard way and now that they have backed Ole ...the players are finally coming around to the fact that they wont be able to hide or wait out the manager.

Arsenal by thinking that their manager was a dictator and needed to be cut down to size, have killed the professional culture at the club.

Are you referring to Wenger or Emery?

Regardless, there's no correlation between the manager and a players natural ability to suit a role. You either have the natural ability or you don't. Willock, AMN, Guendouzi dont have the natural ability to play the roles they're currently being played at. At least not at the Premiereship level as regular starters. Definitely not for a club that has top 4 ambitions.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

We have one of the least creative midfields we've ever had at Arsenal. So many times they don't play the obvious forward pass, instead preferring to either hold on too long and dribble (Douzi and Ceballos) or pass back (Torreira, Xhaka, Willock)

 

[RunTheTrap]

His passing is absurdly overrated, I feel like people heard he was a good passer before he signed and have failed to form their own opinion since.

Xhaka has a good switch on him and he’s the only midfielder we have who is decent at building up play but that’s about it when it comes to his passing. When Ederson hit us with the long ball over the top to get David Luiz sent off it made me realise how little our midfielders move the ball vertically. I remember how dangerous that ball over the top to Walcott in between fullback and centre back was our bread and butter. Nobody at the club can do that consistently. For our supposed deep-lying playmaker, Xhaka rarely creates anything from deep. Rarely breaks lines and rarely does anything to support our attacks.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

You know what would be a fantastic midfield three for us?

-----Xhaka
Partey Grealish

This combination has all the ingredients to make us play again while being better defensively aswell.