Petr Cech (Out)

[Malky]

'Golden Glove' is such a pointless state to judge a keepers performance on. A clean sheet is a reflection on the whole teams performance.
Keepers should be rewarded based on their save percentage.

 

[El Duderino]

 

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, we were reminded of this a few posts ago as well. Doesn't change anything, unless we want to rewrite history. I think all of us were Arsenal fans back then and we watched a lot of Arsenal, so we had an opinion at the time, regardless of the Golden Glove. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[FEH]

There is NO way someone can say Cech had an acceptable season this year without having a national bias or some sort of agenda. He was simply that poor and it could not be more obvious he showed serious decline. He made THE MOST mistakes leading to goals and ALL of them were rightfully attributed to him.

@Slartibartfast - You say his performance this season hasn't been helped by Mustafi etc which is fine. But also only won the golden glove because of our good defensive performance that year. Not because he was the stand-out keeper that year, because he wasn't. It was obvious from day 1 that Chelsea had done the right thing and replaced him as Courtois looked a level above as soon as he was made number 1 there. All that however is irrelevant right now.

If we are judging him on his current form, which is the only thing that matters, he needs replaced as he will continue to cost us goals next season as there is nothing to suggest his body can somehow go back in time and his reflexes come back. He looks like a 47 year old in between the sticks and has spent half the season apologising to fans on twitter for poor performances and mistakes lol.

 

[Ricardinho]

Cech has been one of the worst keepers in the league since he joined us, I thought this was the consensus. Seems it isn't which I find quite strange. In retrospect I'd swap Cech for most PL keepers, not just now, back when he joined as well.

That's just not true. You could argue the case for last season, but not his whole time here.

 

[Malky]

Where's this idea coming from that Cech is certain to be first choice here next season?
So we're ignoring the fact that we've got a limited transfer budget but we're using a large chunk of it to sign a young, but experienced, German international goalkeeper to sit him on the bench in favour of a 36 year old?

 

[Slartibartfast]

'Golden Glove' is such a pointless state to judge a keepers performance on. A clean sheet is a reflection on the whole teams performance.
Keepers should be rewarded based on their save percentage.

The reason I reiterated the Golden Glove was because I was told that statistics such as save percentage are meaningless. The person I was debating on this said the important statistic was total goals conceded, which I argued was more a reflexion of the team's defensive performance (the same is true in a poor season such as this past one).

But since you bring it up, here are the rankings of all Premier League goalkeepers for the 2015-16 season. Cech's save percentage was 76%, which was the best of all regular goalkeepers that season. By contrast, Saint De Gea was at 71.1%.

 

[Slartibartfast]

There is NO way someone can say Cech had an acceptable season this year without having a national bias or some sort of agenda. He was simply that poor and it could not be more obvious he showed serious decline. He made THE MOST mistakes leading to goals and ALL of them were rightfully attributed to him.

@Slartibartfast - You say his performance this season hasn't been helped by Mustafi etc which is fine. But also only won the golden glove because of our good defensive performance that year. Not because he was the stand-out keeper that year, because he wasn't. It was obvious from day 1 that Chelsea had done the right thing and replaced him as Courtois looked a level above as soon as he was made number 1 there. All that however is irrelevant right now.

If we are judging him on his current form, which is the only thing that matters, he needs replaced as he will continue to cost us goals next season as there is nothing to suggest his body can somehow go back in time and his reflexes come back. He looks like a 47 year old in between the sticks and has spent half the season apologising to fans on twitter for poor performances and mistakes lol.

Petr Cech agrees with you that his form wasn't acceptable this year. But his Golden Glove wasn't simply a result of great defense in front of him. His 76% save percentage was the best among all regular keepers in the league that season (see the rankings chart I linked above). He was better than De Gea or anybody else by whatever measure you wish to judge.

You people are engaging in revisionist history.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Where's this idea coming from that Cech is certain to be first choice here next season?
So we're ignoring the fact that we've got a limited transfer budget but we're using a large chunk of it to sign a young, but experienced, German international goalkeeper to sit him on the bench in favour of a 36 year old?

Who said this? I seem to have missed it.

 

[kraphtous]

Top post.

All this revisionism in regards to Cech is awful from our fanbase. Hopefully he will return to that level again and that last season was a result of poor defense and bad form..

Of course I'd still like to sign another GK just in case.

 

[razörist]

What’s with the love for the Chelsea rent boy? He was great when he first signed, like three years ago. He’s declined sharply since, and added horrible mistakes and diving out of the way of penalties to his repertoire. Does his performance last season fill you with confidence for the next one? How about we do the logical thing and move on. He can stay as second goalkeeper but I’d rather watch him leave anyway.

 

[Enz__]

Top post.

All this revisionism in regards to Cech is awful from our fanbase. Hopefully he will return to that level again and that last season was a result of poor defense and bad form..

Of course I'd still like to sign another GK just in case.

Sure we were poor defensively last season but i think it's fairly clear to see Cech has been on decline since he's been here and is past it at this point. That isn't to say that he wasn't very good for us in his first season but he is absolutely no longer at the level required and isn't going to magically grow younger and sharper. We shouldn't be signing another goalie 'just in case', we should be signing one to bench Cech, this for me is a priority. At this point i don't think he's anything more than a very good second choice, sadly.

 

[Mark Tobias]

'Golden Glove' is such a pointless state to judge a keepers performance on. A clean sheet is a reflection on the whole teams performance.
Keepers should be rewarded based on their save percentage.

Could argue the same for goals scored though. Striker won't have the ball unless his team work to keep it/get it...

 

[FEH]

Petr Cech agrees with you that his form wasn't acceptable this year. But his Golden Glove wasn't simply a result of great defense in front of him. His 76% save percentage was the best among all regular keepers in the league that season (see the rankings chart I linked above). He was better than De Gea or anybody else by whatever measure you wish to judge.

You people are engaging in revisionist history.

If his golden glove wasn't simply a result of a great defence, then his shocking season and calamitous mistakes this year aren't just a result of a poor defence. He was good the first year he came here, mostly everyone would be in agreement there. But banging on about his achievements 2 or 3 years ago doesn't mean he is good enough to be our number 1 today. Which he isn't, as his stats show, his mistakes show, his lack of agility, poor distribution, reaction times to shots he should really have saved show etc etc which is why Leno is being brought in to succeed him.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Who said this? I seem to have missed it.

He was handed the number one jersey...

 

[Enz__]

He was handed the number one jersey...

To be honest i don't think this means very much at all. When the new numbers were handed out he was the logical number one. Giving him a new number and then failing to get a new goalie would have been much worse. I think he'll be benched for most games this season, assuming we get a new goalie of course.

 

[Slartibartfast]

If his golden glove wasn't simply a result of a great defence, then his shocking season and calamitous mistakes this year aren't just a result of a poor defence. He was good the first year he came here, mostly everyone would be in agreement there. But banging on about his achievements 2 or 3 years ago doesn't mean he is good enough to be our number 1 today. Which he isn't, as his stats show, his mistakes show, his lack of agility, poor distribution, reaction times to shots he should really have saved show etc etc which is why Leno is being brought in to succeed him.

So you're agreeing with me now? Glad to hear it. And the only reason I was "banging on about his achievements 2 or 3 years ago" was because I was arguing with a guy who claimed that Cech has been the worst goalkeeper in the league since the day he joined Arsenal. The fact is he was brilliant his 1st year, very good his 2nd and in very poor form this past season (as he'll tell you himself). That's why Leno is being brought in to compete with Cech for the job. Not sure why you seem to think we disagree on this point, except that I don't think anyone will be handed the job. There will be competition to earn it.

 

[FEH]

So you're agreeing with me now? Glad to hear it. And the only reason I was "banging on about his achievements 2 or 3 years ago" was because I was arguing with a guy who claimed that Cech has been the worst goalkeeper in the league since the day he joined Arsenal. The fact is he was brilliant his 1st year, very good his 2nd and in very poor form this past season (as he'll tell you himself). That's why Leno is being brought in to compete with Cech for the job. Not sure why you seem to think we disagree on this point, except that I don't think anyone will be handed the job. There will be competition to earn it.

If you agree he needs replaced this season then yes fully agree. I think people who think he has been the worst keeper in the PL since he got here are very few and far between and probably just exaggerating as they are desperate for a better goalkeeper. I do think however Emery will start Leno especially if spending 20m. If Wenger was still here Cech would probably start due to blind faith and hope. Leno coming in to "compete" with Cech would be absolutely pointless though. We should be bringing in a keeper who would be a clear and obvious upgrade to Cech without having to prove anything from the get-go.

 

[Mark Tobias]

So you're agreeing with me now? Glad to hear it. And the only reason I was "banging on about his achievements 2 or 3 years ago" was because I was arguing with a guy who claimed that Cech has been the worst goalkeeper in the league since the day he joined Arsenal. The fact is he was brilliant his 1st year, very good his 2nd and in very poor form this past season (as he'll tell you himself). That's why Leno is being brought in to compete with Cech for the job. Not sure why you seem to think we disagree on this point, except that I don't think anyone will be handed the job. There will be competition to earn it.

This seems to becoming a theme in our squad with certain signing making it clear. I am, quite frankly, over the moon if true. We currently have PEA and Laca competing up front (although they can be used together).
In midfield we are developing the most beautiful selection headache and great competition now with Torreira coming in (provided we keep Ramsey)
Defensively we have Sokratis and Lichsteiner coming in to add to that pressure. As well as Leno.

Competition IS what keeps complacency at bay.

 

[moloso]

So now you're changing the subject? And contradicting yourself. If you want to forget three years ago, why do you keep arguing he wasn't that good three years ago? Forget the stats. Forget the performance rating. He won the frickin' Golden Glove. Even by the standard you set yourself -- goals conceded -- he was the best goalkeeper in the league that season. Far more than just "reliable." And that's the season we were talking about because you brought up his work in previous seasons. Also, you never said anything about comparing goals conceded between 2015-16 and 2017-18. You said to look at goals conceded rather than the statistics for the three seasons I posted. Once again, you're trying to move the goalpost. You weren't even speaking of this past season alone when you called him "one of the worst keepers in the league" because you said over the past couple of seasons. He was actually very good in 2016-17 as well.

Now, I suggest you let this drop before you further embarrass yourself.

Go back and actually read.

"Look at the goals conceded" as in go and actually watch them - not look at the amount.

I don't put any weight into your stats. Performance rating, great, what is it based on? Attack rating?! Save percentage? Cool, but how difficult are the shots? Where are the stats of the amount of shots saved right in the corners, or crosses claimed under pressure, or one on ones, shots over a certain speed over a certain distance? Just go and watch goals conceded and ask yourself if the keeper could do better.

Cech isn't very good anymore. He hasn't ever consistently been anywhere near his early Chelsea form.

He obviously hasn't always been one of the worst in the league ever since he's joined, I never actually said that. I said, he's never been top bracket and his form has been getting worse and worse over the last 2 years.

I stand by the fact that he needs replacing, if you think he was class a few years ago or even now then great - I'm guessing you want a new keeper for competion regardless so let's see how it plays out.