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PL: Arsenal v Manchester City | August 12th, 2018 16:00 BST | Sky Sports

Match Prediction


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celestis

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Country: Australia
There’s sound science behind playing out from the back.

A study of 3200 goal kicks in the MLS showed that only 33% of kicks into the opposition half resulted in possession being kept. Throwing or kicking the ball to defenders in close proximity lead to a 95% completion rate.

Pep and Emery know these things. Sam Allardyce is clearly more interested in dodgy deals.

For sure and there was a stat that the most goals scored in Europe was with possession conceded in your defensive third . Constant playing out the back is fine imo, we used to do it 70 percent of the time but if you don't have the personnel to do it properly it can be a disaster.
 
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Gegen Pressing

Well-Known Member
Blame all on Emery already for lack of formation intelligence. PEA alone while Laca on bench and Mikhi spoiled at CM. Just really basic stuff ...
#BringWengerBack
 

Makingtrax

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For sure and there was a stat that the most goals in Europe with possession conceded in your defensive third . Constant playing out the back is fine imo, we used to do it 70 percent of the time but if you don't have the personnel to do it properly it can be a disaster.
When the keeper gets the ball. The outfield players should all get into a set position ready for one of several well drilled routines to get the ball forward.

As you say, the more able the players, the more accurate the passing, the more often those routines will come off.

So what does the manager do if he sees his hard work breaking down?

Pep can swap out any weak link and buy one that can do what he wants. Lower down the league they have to keep working on the players by additional coaching and practising in the hope that they’ll improve.

Wonder which method is most effective?
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
When the keeper gets the ball. The outfield players should all get into a set position ready for one of several well drilled routines to get the ball forward.

As you say, the more able the players, the more accurate the passing, the more often those routines will come off.

So what does the manager do if he sees his hard work breaking down?

Pep can swap out any weak link and buy one that can do what he wants. Lower down the league they have to keep working on the players by additional coaching and practising in the hope that they’ll improve.

Wonder which method is most effective?

Think Pep's method to be honest , he's been setting these sides up for a decade or more , there isn't a lot of improvement after a certain age and nowadays sport science is loathe to let their players do extra in fear of injury .

Unai's not stupid though , pretty sure he knows he's going to have to tweak a few things .
 

marting

Active Member
People have been fair to critical of Emery. Lets not forget thats his first competative game for Arsenal, His still learning about us and our players and he WILL (unlike Wenger) make changes to resolve these issues. I didnt expect Ramsey and Mhiki to have such a limited impact on the team, add to that Özil, we had quiet the void. in the attacking third. We are a squad with no wingers so that makes us quite limited which didnt help as Mhiki didnt seem to grasp the defensive part of his role (not so such a problem when litch came on).

The playing out from the back....Lets not forget that city went through all these issues and whilst we wasnt great at it, you dont get any better if you dont practise it, It was brave to try and do against city...and i dont think it was that, that particulary failed us on the day...just made us as fans nervous as hell.

Lets me honest, we will likely struggle again at Chelsea, its going to take 5 or 6 games for his ideas to start working. Lets just stick with him and the team and look at it again at xmas.

Anyone who thinks we should be competing with City/Liverpool etc just need to look at the squads and stop looking at ours with rose tinted glasses on.
 

krengon

One Arsène Wenger
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Exactly why I asked , Unai wants us to play out from the back, Guardiola had to spend big money to make it work (unless you convert a DM into a CB.) . You can't make it work with effectively with blokes who aren't accomplished.

Yeah agreed, painful watching some of these jokers attempt to play out the back and it’s not something I see improving with practice as it just comes down to lack of ability. Not sure the risk/reward is in our favour here, only solution I see is buy better quality cb’s or modify it a bit/ not ask so much of the cb’s and gk..
 

krengon

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The playing out from the back....Lets not forget that city went through all these issues and whilst we wasnt great at it, you dont get any better if you dont practise it, It was brave to try and do against city...and i dont think it was that, that particulary failed us on the day...just made us as fans nervous as hell.

They got better at it by buying better quality players who are suited for that kind of football, if they stuck with what they had and hoped practice would make them great they’d still be struggling with it now.
 

IslingtonBornandbred

Active Member
Yeah agreed, painful watching some of these jokers attempt to play out the back and it’s not something I see improving with practice as it just comes down to lack of ability. Not sure the risk/reward is in our favour here, only solution I see is buy better quality cb’s or modify it a bit/ not ask so much of the cb’s and gk..

Also, we have to remember it's not just as simple as playing out from the back even if you have the players to do it, which we don't. If the opposition decide they want to have a high starting position and go man for man, then it's virtually impossible to do it safely unless a) you take a risk and b) you have exceptional players to do it. There's a reason that Ederson goes long sometimes, and it's two fold, 1) the short pass out from the back isn't on and b) as a result of this the opposition have pressed right up leaving a massive gap and Sterling/Sane/Aguero up against the defence and all it takes is one long ball to get them running at the opposition goal.

There's definitely a time and a place for it, but with Cech in goal, a right footed left back, Mustafi and Sokratis, a youngster in midfield and an unfit Xhaka up against the Champions it wasn't the time or the place and it never will be under those circumstances. That indecisiveness and uneasiness put City on the front foot and caused us a lot of problems.
 

CanadianGooner1608

Active Member
Loving all the doom and gloom in here.

It's one game vs the reigning champion who basically bought enough to have an A team on the field and an A team on the bench.
This game was always a write off (despite my irrational hope that we could create a surprise that sets us up for the rest of the season), and we as a fanbase shouldn't already write ourselves off.

Emery has been here for two months, brought 5 new players in. Of course it will take time for us to click and gel, but I have faith we will.

Overall, looking beyond the obvious result, I saw a ton of positive signs for weeks to come.

Starting with our new signings:
- Guendouzi in particular looked a baller, and Emery is clearly nurtering that go-getter attitude of his. Bit more experience and he might become the fire under our belly.
- Torreira was a game changer for the time he was on the pitch. You could see him smothering the ball holders every time he went to press them. Precious to get the ball back, precious to get himself fouled in difficult positions and allow us a breather.
- Lichtsteiner has undeniable quality on the ball. Add to that his attitude, nastiness, grit and mentality, he'll be a leader in the dressing room and instrumental in Bellerin's development (if you guys haven't yet, watch his one on one interview with Bellerin, it was quite an interesting watch for whoever looks for clues as to where Bellerin is mentally. Kid is obviously doubting himself)

- Sokratis was solid as hell, and if this game was any indication, will not let himself be bullied like our defense is used to be.

Now to our "veterans":

- PEA as a lone striker in this system clearly doesn't work. He needs people who can play off his speed, distract defenders, create space for him. Lacazette comes to mind.
- Őzil was pretty invisible but still, I noticed him putting in a shift defensively. He tracked back which we rarely saw. As much as I praise him for that, he shouldn't have to do it so often. He has to play more central, right behind the strikers so he can pick his passes.

- Xhaka I feel, as much as people don't like him needs, if we play him, people to have his back and give him time to pick his pass. Ideally though, we need someone with quicker instincts to pick a pass.

- Cech was a mixed bag of dreadful and fantastic. He makes silly mistakes with the ball at his feet, but can and is still spectacular in his saves. As a few pointed out, he saved us 1 or 2 more goals during the game.

- Mustafi was very good as much as we like to point out his mistakes.

The way I see it, it goes like this:

Cech (until Leno is ready)
Lichtsteiner Sokratis Mustafi Bellerin

Torreira Guendouzi Xhaka/Rambo

Őzil

Lacazette Aubameyang

If Monreal is fit, I'd play him with Lichtsteiner. Let Bellerin watch and learn a bit, and get drilled in training. In case we need to speed things up he can come from the bench for Monreal (we'd switch Licht to LB of course).

I think that team, if/when it gels has the potential to be terrifying.

Let me know what you guys think of this.
 

Makingtrax

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BBC Mark Lawrenson

Chelsea v Arsenal (17:30 BST)


Arsenal coach Unai Emery is going to need a lot of time to work out the Premier League and work out his best team.

Emery tried to use Petr Cech to play out from the back against Manchester City and it did not work - he did not look comfortable.

You are not going to change a 36-year-old goalkeeper's game in that way, so I wonder if summer signing Bernd Leno will come in on Saturday.

While the Gunners struggled against Manchester City, Chelsea were comfortable winners against Huddersfield, which was a great start for them.

This is an important game for both teams, just for the fact that, if Chelsea win, they will go six points ahead of Arsenal in the race for the top four.

Lawro's prediction: 2-0
 

Makingtrax

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Really hope we draw this game at least.

The last time Arsenal lost their first two league games was 1992 under George Graham.
 

bingobob

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Exactly.

Reading some comments in this thread would make you think that Pep hit the ground running and City won everything.

Our squad is still full average at best and will take sometime for Emry to get rid of some of them and bring in the players that he wants which like you put it requires extra bit of patience.
With respect City did hit the ground running. They obliterated everything in sight.

Man City 2 Sunderland 1
Bucharest 0 City 5
Stoke 1 City 4
City 1 Bucharest 0
City 3 West Ham 1
Man Utd 1 Man city 2
City 4 Monchengladbach 0
City 4 Bournemouth 0
Swansea 1 City 2
Swansea 1 City 3
Celtic 3 Man City 3

That's right Celtic stopped the run they were on and they didn't win in their next 5 games. Big fn Brendy Rodgers!
 
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