PL: West Ham v Arsenal | Sunday, March 21 | KO: 15:00 UTC | Sky Sports

[Mrs Bergkamp]

One thing on the free kick West Ham scored on. Why did not Moss have to blow the whistle before the free kick could be taken? I must admit I don’t understand the rules for free kicks around the penalty box. Anyone care to enlighten me?

I commented on this on matchday. I didn't hear a whistle and I don't think our players did either. After Lee Mason's debacle at Brighton, I'm sure all the commentators said quick free kicks weren't allowed. The rules need to be published at the same time as the fixture list next season

 

[roz]

Used to think @Dokaka was chatting sh*t about him but I honestly think the guy is elite.

Honestly can only see a younger more athletic Jordan Henderson. So average. Tbf he did have a good game on sunday but still, he’s the holding player for a team that was 3up and were lucky to get a point in the end.

How comes you rate him so?

 

[Rex Stone]

Honestly can only see a younger more athletic Jordan Henderson. So average. Tbf he did have a good game on sunday but still, he’s the holding player for a team that was 3up and were lucky to get a point in the end.

How comes you rate him so?

Like everyone else I used to think he was a limited holding player who was overhyped beyond belief.

Seen him a few times against big teams and he’s come on so far with his passing. I think it was against Utd but they were pressing him everywhere and he was knocking it about like Pirlo.

Was incredible against us in the first game we played as well iirc. His passing range is really good now.

 

[rich 1990]

Didn’t ask you though?

The response of an ignoramus.

 

[roz]

Like everyone else I used to think he was a limited holding player who was overhyped beyond belief.

Seen him a few times against big teams and he’s come on so far with his passing. I think it was against Utd but they were pressing him everywhere and he was knocking it about like Pirlo.

Was incredible against us in the first game we played as well iirc. His passing range is really good now.

Remember last season when he’d just broken through to their 1st team, think he scored his debut goal against us. Feels like We have an annoying habit of doing that for opponents youth players.

He’s definitely improving, just don’t see him as this amazing player that so many others do.

 

[Dokaka]

Remember last season when he’d just broken through to their 1st team, think he scored his debut goal against us. Feels like We have an annoying habit of doing that for opponents youth players.

He’s definitely improving, just don’t see him as this amazing player that so many others do.

Think about where we are in the table, and then look at the players around him. We literally don't have a midfield without him.

With Brexit, he's going to become one of the most valuable players around for British clubs. He's an elite holding midfielder already with a constantly improving offensive game, and he's English. I know the "English tax" thing on players used to be a dumb thing where prices where inflated by the media ostensibly lifting up bang average players because of their inherent bias, but in this case the actual rules of the league are changing in ways where you need players like Rice to be a competitive club.

If we continue performing well and Rice continues steadily improving, he's basically guaranteed to become one of the most expensive footballers of all time when clubs like Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea become desperate to fill their quota without sacrificing quality.

To me, that is a big part of his value. I do think he's genuinely top class, but he's not anywhere near the level of the best ever in terms of technical ability. That doesn't really matter though when he reads the game like a 30 year old seasoned veteran, is in contention as the best tackler in the league and is good enough on the ball to not be a liability in any system.

He's a 22 year old Englishman who wouldn't look out of place in any team in the world. That in itself justifies the hype around him in my opinion.

 

[roz]

Think about where we are in the table, and then look at the players around him. We literally don't have a midfield without him.

With Brexit, he's going to become one of the most valuable players around for British clubs. He's an elite holding midfielder already with a constantly improving offensive game, and he's English. I know the "English tax" thing on players used to be a dumb thing where prices where inflated by the media ostensibly lifting up bang average players because of their inherent bias, but in this case the actual rules of the league are changing in ways where you need players like Rice to be a competitive club.

If we continue performing well and Rice continues steadily improving, he's basically guaranteed to become one of the most expensive footballers of all time when clubs like Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea become desperate to fill their quota without sacrificing quality.

To me, that is a big part of his value. I do think he's genuinely top class, but he's not anywhere near the level of the best ever in terms of technical ability. That doesn't really matter though when he reads the game like a 30 year old seasoned veteran, is in contention as the best tackler in the league and is good enough on the ball to not be a liability in any system.

He's a 22 year old Englishman who wouldn't look out of place in any team in the world. That in itself justifies the hype around him in my opinion.

Nice description though I can’t help but feel you’re overhyping him by saying he wouldn’t look out of place in any team. You’re making him sound like Busquets

Lets see if he continues to develop, his progress could well be stunted having to learn from Mark Noble

 

[CaseUteinberger]

I commented on this on matchday. I didn't hear a whistle and I don't think our players did either. After Lee Mason's debacle at Brighton, I'm sure all the commentators said quick free kicks weren't allowed. The rules need to be published at the same time as the fixture list next season

I read up on it (best I could) and it seems like the refs have quite a bit of leeway in how to handle it. At least Moss was consistent in that he let Laca take the free kick quickly we scored after. Although our one was much further out and one that is often taken quickly.

What I struggle with (and this is not to defend our players who should have been more awake) is when there is a free kick around the box, players argue and complain, the ref goes for the spray etc. you could get into really odd situations with the wall being set up, the ref turning his back etc. Not sure if allowing quick free kicks in that situation is the best solution. Our players clearly didn't expect the free kick to be taken quickly. I think it would help with clearer rules as you state.

 

[Dokaka]

Nice description though I can’t help but feel you’re overhyping him by saying he wouldn’t look out of place in any team. You’re making him sound like Busquets

Lets see if he continues to develop, his progress could well be stunted having to learn from Mark Noble

By not looking out of place, I didn't mean he'd be a star in every team, but rather that he'd be at the very least a good squad player. That's still impressive at 22, especially for someone in his position and role.

 

[dashsnow17]

Think about where we are in the table, and then look at the players around him. We literally don't have a midfield without him.

With Brexit, he's going to become one of the most valuable players around for British clubs. He's an elite holding midfielder already with a constantly improving offensive game, and he's English. I know the "English tax" thing on players used to be a dumb thing where prices where inflated by the media ostensibly lifting up bang average players because of their inherent bias, but in this case the actual rules of the league are changing in ways where you need players like Rice to be a competitive club.

If we continue performing well and Rice continues steadily improving, he's basically guaranteed to become one of the most expensive footballers of all time when clubs like Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea become desperate to fill their quota without sacrificing quality.

To me, that is a big part of his value. I do think he's genuinely top class, but he's not anywhere near the level of the best ever in terms of technical ability. That doesn't really matter though when he reads the game like a 30 year old seasoned veteran, is in contention as the best tackler in the league and is good enough on the ball to not be a liability in any system.

He's a 22 year old Englishman who wouldn't look out of place in any team in the world. That in itself justifies the hype around him in my opinion.

Wouldn't the sensible reaction though to be to recruit the most talented English players from youth level or the lower leagues, instead of paying 20-30m too much for players like Rice and Maguire? I just don't think it's good for anyone in the game to have more transfers like the Maguire one, not least for the player. If Maguire had cost say 40m there might have been more reasonable expectations, instead he cost 80m and he's roasted for every mistake. Paying 80m for Rice is just gonna lead to hysteria whenever he doesn't play like prime Busquets, which is gonna happen cos he's probably not prime Busquets.

Same situation with Grealish and Kane, players who should probably move to a bigger club but no one can afford them cos they're English. The English tax is ridiculous. People rightly criticise PSG for messing everything up by paying the Neymar fee, but Utd messed everything up by acquiescing to Leicester's absurd asking price and now every club with an English talent expects way too much.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

By not looking out of place, I didn't mean he'd be a star in every team, but rather that he'd be at the very least a good squad player. That's still impressive at 22, especially for someone in his position and role.

I like him as a player. Very good young talent! Sure as hell would like him on our team as an option. Beats most of our options bar Partey in my book.

 

[freeglennhelder2]

I read up on it (best I could) and it seems like the refs have quite a bit of leeway in how to handle it. At least Moss was consistent in that he let Laca take the free kick quickly we scored after. Although our one was much further out and one that is often taken quickly.

What I struggle with (and this is not to defend our players who should have been more awake) is when there is a free kick around the box, players argue and complain, the ref goes for the spray etc. you could get into really odd situations with the wall being set up, the ref turning his back etc. Not sure if allowing quick free kicks in that situation is the best solution. Our players clearly didn't expect the free kick to be taken quickly. I think it would help with clearer rules as you state.

This was a weird one. There is absolutely no excuse for the keeper and 3 or 4 of our players that were close to the ball but its also clear the ref wasn't ready (the TV director wasn't ready either) and Lingard kind of made up his mind for him and the ref decided to roll with it in that instant.

 

[Riou]

They should have just given the first goal to Laca, who cares if it took a deflection, it was a shot...in the days when football was less about stats for nerds, it would have been a Laca goal.

 

[drippin]

They should have just given the first goal to Laca, who cares if it took a deflection, it was a shot...in the days when football was and had less stats for nerds in it, it would have been a Laca goal.

If you look closely, Laca's shot would have gone to the post or out. This is why it was an own goal.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

If you look closely, Laca's shot would have gone to the post or out. This is why it was an own goal.

Question is if not e.g. the West Ham header from Antonio would have gone out or have hit the post without the deflection it took of Soucek. Looking at the replay I think it would have. I personally think all these discussions around deflections, luck, own goals etc. are a bit too much. Anytime there is a shot in the box there is a good chance it will deflect of someone or something. Just part of the game.

 

[Red London]

I read up on it (best I could) and it seems like the refs have quite a bit of leeway in how to handle it. At least Moss was consistent in that he let Laca take the free kick quickly we scored after. Although our one was much further out and one that is often taken quickly.

What I struggle with (and this is not to defend our players who should have been more awake) is when there is a free kick around the box, players argue and complain, the ref goes for the spray etc. you could get into really odd situations with the wall being set up, the ref turning his back etc. Not sure if allowing quick free kicks in that situation is the best solution. Our players clearly didn't expect the free kick to be taken quickly. I think it would help with clearer rules as you state.

I don’t understand why everyone (pundits) are saying this (and basically all quick free kicks in general) are fine. So now we can take free kicks if the keeper is leaning on the post setting up the wall ? Where do you draw the line with this stuff ffs. The grey area is another ‘handball rule’ type scenario.

Imo that shouldn’t have been allowed, because if that is allowed without a whistle and while the ref is pulling out his spray, where does this stop? I think the ref deserved the assist on this one, he executed an amazing dummy with that spray! Fooled our entire team

 

[CaseUteinberger]

I don’t understand why everyone (pundits) are saying this (and basically all quick free kicks in general) are fine. So now we can take free kicks if the keeper is leaning on the post setting up the wall ? Where do you draw the line with this stuff ffs. The grey area is another ‘handball rule’ type scenario.

Imo that shouldn’t have been allowed, because if that is allowed without a whistle and while the ref is pulling out his spray, where does this stop? I think the ref deserved the assist on this one, he executed an amazing dummy with that spray! Fooled our entire team

I am with you! The rules aren’t great in this case. If I was Arteta I would instruct one player on each side that wouldn’t be used for the wall to simply stand close to the ball to stop it being played and then stay there until the ref tells him to move away. It will slow everything down but would stop us being caught out. Sure once we do that the FA would look at the rules to see if they need changing. Just slow everything down as much as we can.

 

[Let's play Aubamawang]

See we used to be much better at that. Now our players are too nonchalant and turn their backs. The downside to playing more inexperienced players, I suppose. But given he doesn't seem to be doing much else, surely our captain can help us out by distracting the ref or blocking the free kick til the players are in position.

When that guy took a quick direct free kick while the goalie was on the post directing the wall, I felt that was cheating. How was the goalie supposed to stand a chance of getting to it? It was a good job the ref blew his whistle before it went in. But I suppose if it had counted it would have forced lawmakers to do something about it.