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Premier League 17/18 - Matchday 18

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Of course he has a valid point but to think we had our very own chance to shave 3pts off UTD.s lead on us & we did what we have so often done when and imploded.
But that's not who we are any more bro. Oligarchs, TV money . . it's all changed. And posters who came on board 12 years because of our invincibles run are struggling to see that . . . just bashing Wenger.

A new manager is not going to change that. We are Liverpool level now, and look at them, they have a superb manager imo (that lots of posters wanted here) . . but they have the same inconsistency, and RAWK is a mirror image of AM.
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
But that's not who we are any more bro. Oligarchs, TV money . . it's all changed. And posters who came on board 12 years because of our invincibles run are struggling to see that . . . just bashing Wenger.

A new manager is not going to change that. We are Liverpool level now, and look at them, they have a superb manager imo (that lots of posters wanted here) . . but they have the same inconsistency, and RAWK is a mirror image of AM.
Look, you're a good man (I think!) and a committed poster here but if you honestly believe Wenger ain't a huge part of our inertia and inability to really challenge at the top you're also massively deluded. I don't mean that in a nasty way just in a realistic manner.

Wenger no longer enjoys feeding rights at the top top tier unfortunately. Still a great man but he's even more deluded than you if he feels his methods and style of play will eventually produce the right results.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Look, you're a good man (I think!) and a committed poster here but if you honestly believe Wenger ain't a huge part of our inertia and inability to really challenge at the top you're also massively deluded. I don't mean that in a nasty way just in a realistic manner.

Wenger no longer enjoys feeding rights at the top top tier unfortunately. Still a great man but he's even more deluded than you if he feels his methods and style of play will eventually produce the right results.
So which manager and which style of play get us these results?
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Look, you're a good man (I think!) and a committed poster here but if you honestly believe Wenger ain't a huge part of our inertia and inability to really challenge at the top you're also massively deluded. I don't mean that in a nasty way just in a realistic manner.

Wenger no longer enjoys feeding rights at the top top tier unfortunately. Still a great man but he's even more deluded than you if he feels his methods and style of play will eventually produce the right results.
No offence taken bro, but you ignored the point I made to tell me I'm deluded. Et tu brute!:lol:
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
No offence taken bro, but you ignored the point I made to tell me I'm deluded. Et tu brute!:lol:
What point am I ignoring bro - you seem to think that it's just a simple matter of having more money to spend which I most certainly do not think it is.
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
So if you don't know. How could our board. I'd back posters like you to make a better decision there than I do the current BoD
haha. Look I ain't hating on Arsène but just don't see him being able to challenge for the league & that's mainly down to his player recruitment & footballing philosophy.

For a long time we've played football that just isn't good enough where it counts, i.e in the two boxes. We're gods at controlling the middle 3rd but come to the business end of the pitch we don't produce the goods enough.

I'd really hoped that he may have gone out on a real high in the league but this season once again shows that his teams no longer have the ability to challenge - it's been 14 yrs and counting since we've even challenged for the league and I feel a new message on the training pitches could change that.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
What point am I ignoring bro - you seem to think that it's just a simple matter of having more money to spend which I most certainly do not think it is.
Really! So Chelsea had only won the league once in it's entire history, but they get £1.4bn cash injection in 2005 onwards, and then win it 5 times after that.

And it was because all those different managers didn't make the mistakes Wenger has.

OK.
 

vantoure

Well-Known Member
My friend, I don't know but based on recent historic experience, it ain't Arséne.

What exact instances? I'm sure it's some mistakes he's made, right? Well no manager is immune from those, and Industry is easier to gloss over mistakes when you've a deep pocket.

Serious question her, pep is good and all, if he were to swap places/circumstances with klopp, do you think we'll have Liverpool as good as City currently are? Or city in the same situation Liverpool is in currently?

I'd like some serious discussion on this using what we've seen in the past year or 2
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
But trax has on several occassion noted there are other factors, stating that he simply believes money to be THE most important.
Well, where as I do agree money is important, however, I believe that the manager in the dugout is the most important factor in football (that's my opinion) & whilst Arsène has been a great manager his methods ain't getting the best from his players imo. We've just lost way too many games in a manner that indicates a footballing deficiency rather than a monetary shortage. UTD. at home was just the most recent of them.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
haha. Look I ain't hating on Arséne but just don't see him being able to challenge for the league & that's mainly down to his player recruitment & footballing philosophy.

For a long time we've played football that just isn't good enough where it counts, i.e in the two boxes. We're gods at controlling the middle 3rd but come to the business end of the pitch we don't produce the goods enough.

I'd really hoped that he may have gone out on a real high in the league but this season once again shows that his teams no longer have the ability to challenge - it's been 14 yrs and counting since we've even challenged for the league and I feel a new message on the training pitches could change that.
Great post. I can accept that and I won't try to change your mind either.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Well, where as I do agree money is important, however, I believe that the manager in the dugout is the most important factor in football (that's my opinion) & whilst Arséne has been a great manager his methods ain't getting the best from his players imo. We've just lost way too many games in a manner that indicates a footballing deficiency rather than a monetary shortage. UTD. at home was just the most recent of them.
I don't agree the manager is the most important factor but I definitely agree with some of your post here and I do think Wenger has lost a bit of the edge he had. Maybe the game has evolved past him a bit.

Also, I think we deserved points at agianst United. I can;t accept that anything Wenger did was the reason for that result. I just can't
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
Really! So Chelsea had only won the league once in it's entire history, but they get £1.4bn cash injection in 2005 onwards, and then win it 5 times after that.

And it was because all those different managers didn't make the mistakes Wenger has.

OK.
Look, we all can see that money makes a difference but I'd harken to say that the money at Chelsea was one thing, the signing of Mourinho was the tipping point. Like him or loathe him he's lorded over Arsène ever since he came into the league & it's excruciating to see that ever since he came into the English league we've been also rans. The flip side of your argument is that give Asrene the money & he'd win the league. I very much doubt he would anymore. On a financial level playing field he'd still come up short.

You rather blindly fail to acknowledge the footballing deficiencies we have. Trust me it wasn't money that caused us to self-combust against UTD. It wasn't money that caused us to get hammered 10-2 by Bayern, it wasn't money that saw us lose to Monaco in the CL losing 3-1 at home, it wasn't money that saw us lose to Stoke, Watford & Liverpool - it was ineffective football, ineffective football that has been served up for a very long time now.
 
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vantoure

Well-Known Member
haha. Look I ain't hating on Arséne but just don't see him being able to challenge for the league & that's mainly down to his player recruitment & footballing philosophy.

For a long time we've played football that just isn't good enough where it counts, i.e in the two boxes. We're gods at controlling the middle 3rd but come to the business end of the pitch we don't produce the goods enough.

I'd really hoped that he may have gone out on a real high in the league but this season once again shows that his teams no longer have the ability to challenge - it's been 14 yrs and counting since we've even challenged for the league and I feel a new message on the training pitches could change that.
This just is not very true

2 or 3 seasons back, we had like the joint best defence on the league. I'm sure the been others recently where we've had top 3 highest scoring rates.

I theorise that most people that want change just want something different not that they can point out the specific technical / tactical deficiency of the manager @ least relative to other managers they long for - which is not a bad thing itself.

However constantly trying to undermine the ability of the current manager because of that is rather poor. And the evidence of his ability is there to be seen.
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
This just is not very true

2 or 3 seasons back, we had like the joint best defence on the league. I'm sure the been others recently where we've had top 3 highest scoring rates.

I theorise that most people that want change just want something different not that they can point out the specific technical / tactical deficiency of the manager @ least relative to other managers they long for - which is not a bad thing itself.

However constantly trying to undermine the ability of the current manager because of that is rather poor. And the evidence of his ability is there to be seen.
You honestly think we've had a good defense? - a defense to enable us to challenge at the very top of the game? If you honestly do then I don't know what Arsenal you've been watching for the last 10 years mate. Our defense hasn't been worthy enough for a decade now and on top of that we often only have the 3rd or 4th best offensive output.
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
I don't agree the manager is the most important factor but I definitely agree with some of your post here and I do think Wenger has lost a bit of the edge he had. Maybe the game has evolved past him a bit.

Also, I think we deserved points at agianst United. I can;t accept that anything Wenger did was the reason for that result. I just can't
If that had been a one off display against UTD. I'd have absolved the manager of any blame but having seen his teams do that on countless occasions, I can't.
 

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