Premier League 18/19: Matchday 24

[Tosker]

Tbh, Eddie Howe is a genuine talent/strong manager. Nagelsmann gets lauded for getting Hoffenheim into the CL in an arguably weaker league and then bowing out without making much noise, but what Howe has done at Bournemouth since he's taken over is as laudable, I think. I'd hate for him to end up at a top club - it will eventually happen - that's a backroom mess hampering the manager's job and thus him failing. I'm pretty sure he'd have a hard time at a club like United or Chelsea, but could do great things at clubs like current Liverpool or down the line settled Arsenal.

I can only think Howe's achievements come from his management style, as he has very little money to play with - I don't remember ever reading about it, but his teams must be highly motivated to keep Bournemouth where they are

 

[al-Ustaadh]

Tbh, Eddie Howe is a genuine talent/strong manager. Nagelsmann gets lauded for getting Hoffenheim into the CL in an arguably weaker league and then bowing out without making much noise, but what Howe has done at Bournemouth since he's taken over is as laudable, I think. I'd hate for him to end up at a top club - it will eventually happen - that's a backroom mess hampering the manager's job and thus him failing. I'm pretty sure he'd have a hard time at a club like United or Chelsea, but could do great things at clubs like current Liverpool or down the line settled Arsenal.

Think his next step is more West Ham level.

 

[Toby]

I can only think Howe's achievements come from his management style, as he has very little money to play with - I don't remember ever reading about it, but his teams must be highly motivated to keep Bournemouth where they are

I recently had a look at it and they sometimes do spend in the regions of a midtable club, but e.g. last season they spent the second least amount and came 12th, iirc. He got them promoted twice, right, and then kept them in the first division for years now, and is in the process of making them a settled pl midtable club. And he's not even that pragmatic, he's quite an offensive, modern manager. Look at Jokanovic: Fulham played dominat possesion football to get promoted, and then they seriously suffered for that in the top flight; whereas Howe has done the same but found a more coherent style to keep his team competitive even in the first division without abandoning his idea of pro-active football. He makes seriously mediocre footballers like King, Fraser and Wilson look like ballers. Everyone works for that system. And this season they're only 2 points off 7th.

I absolutely think his success is down to the quiet and trusting waters at Bournemouth, kind of like Streich at Freiburg in the BL, which is why I believe he'd be out of his depth at chaotic and somewhat concept-/leaderless ships like United, but could do great at a big club that's got an identity and an at least midterm concept so he could do his job in peace and quiet. Unfortunately Tottenham seriously do look like a club that would try and get him once poch leaves.

 

[Toby]

Think his next step is more West Ham level.

He's already made his current club better than West Ham. I see no reason for him to join a club like that, despite the challenge of making them a Top 6 club on the grounds of a currently better financial situation; and that would be another 5 years journey at least. But as things stand and with the money in footie today, he could just pledge his next 10 years to Bournemouth and have a try for Top 6 there.

 

[Makingtrax]

I recently had a look at it and they sometimes do spend in the regions of a midtable club, but e.g. last season they spent the second least amount and came 12th, iirc. He got them promoted twice, right, and then kept them in the first division for years now, and is in the process of making them a settled pl midtable club. And he's not even that pragmatic, he's quite an offensive, modern manager. Look at Jokanovic: Fulham played dominat possesion football to get promoted, and then they seriously suffered for that in the top flight; whereas Howe has done the same but found a more coherent style to keep his team competitive even in the first division without abandoning his idea of pro-active football. He makes seriously mediocre footballers like King, Fraser and Wilson look like ballers. Everyone works for that system. And this season they're only 2 points off 7th.

I absolutely think his success is down to the quiet and trusting waters at Bournemouth, kind of like Streich at Freiburg in the BL, which is why I believe he'd be out of his depth at chaotic and somewhat concept-/leaderless ships like United, but could do great at a big club that's got an identity and an at least midterm concept so he could do his job in peace and quiet. Unfortunately Tottenham seriously do look like a club that would try and get him once poch leaves.

This year their squad cost is 15th and they are currently 12th in the league. I expect West Ham to possibly pass them, which would make them 13th. Finishing two places above your squad cost is very good. He is clearly an excellent manager.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

He's already made his current club better than West Ham. I see no reason for him to join a club like that, despite the challenge of making them a Top 6 club on the grounds of a currently better financial situation; and that would be another 5 years journey at least. But as things stand and with the money in footie today, he could just pledge his next 10 years to Bournemouth and have a try for Top 6 there.

It's more having to deal with a certain level of expectations, bigger fan base, bigger transfer budget, etc. Bournemouth may be above West Ham in the table right now, but it isn't representative of reality in the football world overall.

 

[Toby]

This year their squad cost is 15th and they are currently 12th in the league. I expect West Ham to possibly pass them, which would make them 13th. Finishing two places above your squad cost is very good. He is clearly an excellent manager.

I half expected you to weight in which is why I checked again. Didn't want to be caught out by the squadcoast Jesus

But yeah, Howe does an excellent job. I wasn't sure about their spending this season with Solanke for 19m and such, but I knew they spent 19th and came 12th or 11th last season, which is - while I'm not a squadcoast as the definining factor theory adherer - still a remarkable feat. Going into a new season with basically the same squad and getting better is the benchmark for measuring manager capeability. From 16/17 to 17/18 he's done nothing but worked on the tactical side without significant additions which means he's doing something right.

 

[Toby]

It's more having to deal with a certain level of expectations, bigger fan base, bigger transfer budget, etc. Bournemouth may be above West Ham in the table right now, but it isn't representative of reality in the football world overall.

But still. He's lead a smaller club to bigger heights on a tighter budget. Why would he choose a club that's underperforming but still worse than his current club and still beneath the Top 6/7 in spending and reputation after doing what he did with Bournemouth? If my options were staying there or joining West Ham I know I wouldn't swap teams. I'd rather continue my path at Bournemouth and help them grow - especially since I've seen that every now and then they will go out and spend around 20m for a player - than join a turmoiled club that's not necessarilly set for higher spend/higher season finish. The only way up for him really is joining one of the Top 6.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

But still. He's lead a smaller club to bigger heights on a tighter budget. Why would he choose a club that's underperforming but still worse than his current club and still beneath the Top 6/7 in spending and reputation after doing what he did with Bournemouth? If my options were staying there or joining West Ham I know I wouldn't swap teams. I'd rather continue my path at Bournemouth and help them grow - especially since I've seen that every now and then they will go out and spend around 20m for a player - than join a turmoiled club that's not necessarilly set for higher spend/higher season finish. The only way up for him really is joining one of the Top 6.

I don't think it'll happen. There's a bias against English coaches in the top 6 right now. He may go to Tottenham once Pochettino leaves, but that's the only one. Besides that, I'd bet on him going to West Ham, Everton, etc. level first. One day he'll be at a top 6 but I don't think it'll be his next move (and like I said, if it is, it'll probably be Tottenham).

 

[Toby]

I don't think it'll happen. There's a bias against English coaches in the top 6 right now. He may go to Tottenham once Pochettino leaves, but that's the only one. Besides that, I'd bet on him going to West Ham, Everton, etc. level first. One day he'll be at a top 6 but I don't think it'll be his next move (and like I said, if it is, it'll probably be Tottenham).

I think you'll be right with that prediction. For whatever reason domestic talent isn't as rated as it is in other countries in England. To a certain degree that might be right, but to another it might be wrong. No nation spouts out 10 top managers at a time, but there's always 1 to 3 and you don't get to even these small numbers if you have basically no trust in any of them.

Julian Nagelsmann has taken a step I didn't anticipate but which I highly respect in not going for Bayern, Dortmund or Arsenal - who have all lured him - but gone for Leipzig, which feels like an organic step up. Seems like he decidedly opted to not leave out that midle step between Hoffenheim and an absolute top club and I believe that's a seriously decent decision. Going back to Howe this would equate him joining West Ham or Everton or the like, but he big difference is: These club's work nothing like the steady hand clubs like Leipzig or Gladbach and are still very much on a success-hire and fire-spend money or burn it policy which is why I think he might just as well skip that transition in the context of english domestic football landscape.

 

[razörist]

Just woke up and saw Chelsea’s result lol thought I was dreaming.

 

[Camron]

We should try for Maguire this summer. I'm convinced this guy has what it takes. Strong, tall good with his feet, aerial presence and a threat going forward. Him partnered with Sokratis and/or Holding will take us forward defensively. Will probably end up at one of the Manchester clubs though.

 

[Jasard]

Tbf it's the same every year, if only we scored that, only if Xhaka didn't do that, only if Mustafi wasn't here etc.

Sell Mustafi gain 6+ points a season. Its too easy.

 

[albakos]

Tbh, Eddie Howe is a genuine talent/strong manager. Nagelsmann gets lauded for getting Hoffenheim into the CL in an arguably weaker league and then bowing out without making much noise, but what Howe has done at Bournemouth since he's taken over is as laudable, I think. I'd hate for him to end up at a top club - it will eventually happen - that's a backroom mess hampering the manager's job and thus him failing. I'm pretty sure he'd have a hard time at a club like United or Chelsea, but could do great things at clubs like current Liverpool or down the line settled Arsenal.

If Poch leaves, I think Howe is the type of manager that Sp*rs would go for.

 

[Jasard]

 

[Makingtrax]

I half expected you to weight in which is why I checked again. Didn't want to be caught out by the squadcoast Jesus

But yeah, Howe does an excellent job. I wasn't sure about their spending this season with Solanke for 19m and such, but I knew they spent 19th and came 12th or 11th last season, which is - while I'm not a squadcoast as the definining factor theory adherer - still a remarkable feat. Going into a new season with basically the same squad and getting better is the benchmark for measuring manager capeability. From 16/17 to 17/18 he's done nothing but worked on the tactical side without significant additions which means he's doing something right.

If you’re talking about last season they started the year in 17th position bro. The year before 14th.

Nearly all the newspapers and sports organisations use the CIES figures.

http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2017/194/en/phone/index.html

 

[Toby]

If you’re talking about last season they started the year in 17th position bro. The year before 14th.

Nearly all the newspapers and sports organisations use the CIES figures.

http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2017/194/en/phone/index.html

I had this one in mind from the summer of 2017

Going by this for 17/18 they spent the second least amount of all teams and then came 12th. That's pretty good.

 

[Sniper Mik]

David Brooks is a star in the making. Remarkable composure