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Premier League 2019/20: The race for Europe

Where do you predict we will finish this season?


  • Total voters
    231
  • Poll closed .

arsenefc

Obsessed With Guendouzi
What?

We are still a big club. We may have had a **** team the last few years, but we're still a big club. Talk to me when we've spent decades in the Europa League or under it. We also were a big club BEFORE Wenger, so I dunno what you're even talking about there.

thats not the point. what we are is what we are. I was making the point that fans have finally lowered their expectations and accepted the reality of top 4 being our target.
 

remains

Active Member
Think United will hang around like a stale fart all season but we will eventually take 4th place. Who knows, maybe even 3rd.
 

Taneruit

Established Member

Country: Switzerland

Player:Zinchenko
thats not the point. what we are is what we are. I was making the point that fans have finally lowered their expectations and accepted the reality of top 4 being our target.

But you made it a point in that post. Anyway, in that I agree with you, but I do think that excpectation has ended for the majority of fans after the disastrous 15/16 season at least till the mid 20's. Also we're not really alone in that.

Nobody, except for Liverpool, has any hope of winning the premier league anymore for 2 years now. So, Top4 + cups it is.
 

arsenefc

Obsessed With Guendouzi
But you made it a point in that post. Anyway, in that I agree with you, but I do think that excpectation has ended for the majority of fans after the disastrous 15/16 season at least till the mid 20's. Also we're not really alone in that.

Nobody, except for Liverpool, has any hope of winning the premier league anymore for 2 years now. So, Top4 + cups it is.

True, though I think Sp**s have moved up a level and may be in the running for the top2.

I think our lowered position after the years of the invincibles and the golden cesc boys brigade was tough to stomach for a lot of us. City, United, Chelsea were richer clubs. Our best players were either kicked and broken or lured away from us.

We managed to rebuild one last squad of some quality with Per-Kos at the back and Santi-Özil-Sanchez ...but instantly santi got injured and sanchez started to agitate to leave.

So many times we almost started to believe, only to have it dashed away from us. It made some fans so bitter that they turned on the club, the team, the manager, each other and top4+ cups didnt cut it anymore.

This is the first season I am seeing this cold reasoning and acceptance among fans, that we cant aim for the league title and our only aim is to get back into CL before thinking of grander targets. It reduces the angst and moaning, lowers the pressure on the team...and maybe lets us enjoy the football a bit more. Lets hope we build from here.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
True, though I think Sp**s have moved up a level and may be in the running for the top2.

I think our lowered position after the years of the invincibles and the golden cesc boys brigade was tough to stomach for a lot of us. City, United, Chelsea were richer clubs. Our best players were either kicked and broken or lured away from us.

We managed to rebuild one last squad of some quality with Per-Kos at the back and Santi-Özil-Sanchez ...but instantly santi got injured and sanchez started to agitate to leave.

So many times we almost started to believe, only to have it dashed away from us. It made some fans so bitter that they turned on the club, the team, the manager, each other and top4+ cups didnt cut it anymore.

This is the first season I am seeing this cold reasoning and acceptance among fans, that we cant aim for the league title and our only aim is to get back into CL before thinking of grander targets. It reduces the angst and moaning, lowers the pressure on the team...and maybe lets us enjoy the football a bit more. Lets hope we build from here.

Disagree. We’ve accepted we can’t win the league at the moment because there is a phenomenal city team playing under an exceptional manager. This is a squad capable with some form and fortune of winning 80-85 points which in many years has you contending. At the moment you need to be thinking 90-95 points minimum to be in contention. Only two teams are capable of that.
 

Kingofthebongo

Active Member
a lot of the angst and vitriol has died down. Fans have accepted that we are no longer a big club. Fans ambitions and aims are now realistic and top4 seems to be a good enough target. This acceptance was not possible with Wenger around, but with him gone, its mentally easier to accept things have changed.

we now go into Liverpool as underdogs ..and maybe this will help us. Its better to be realistic and plan and build from there.

I agree with what I think your intention of your comment. Although the "Big club" thing rightfully irritates people because that is a loose definition. So it depends how you define it, but I think perhaps the more appropriate wording would be "competitiveness" or "relevance".

Big club has a historical context to it, although I think if you are not competitive for a very long period of time where several generations see you as not too relevant you can lose your "big club" label amongst neutrals.
 

arsenefc

Obsessed With Guendouzi
Disagree. We’ve accepted we can’t win the league at the moment because there is a phenomenal city team playing under an exceptional manager. This is a squad capable with some form and fortune of winning 80-85 points which in many years has you contending. At the moment you need to be thinking 90-95 points minimum to be in contention. Only two teams are capable of that.

maybe you are right, but i think this is also a full mental reset. We went through a roller coaster of 20+ yrs.... titles, drama, injuries, talent, stadium, ownership changes and protests.... its nice to have a more muted feel to things. To reset all the clocks and start from a fresh base and build up...
 

arsenefc

Obsessed With Guendouzi
I agree with what I think your intention of your comment. Although the "Big club" thing rightfully irritates people because that is a loose definition. So it depends how you define it, but I think perhaps the more appropriate wording would be "competitiveness" or "relevance".

Big club has a historical context to it, although I think if you are not competitive for a very long period of time where several generations see you as not too relevant you can lose your "big club" label amongst neutrals.

As Wenger once said, you cannot sell both Cesc and Nasri and call yourself a big club. It can mean different things in different context. At that point he was right. We sold RVP, Cesc, Nasri and so I was glad when we didnt sell Sanchez or Özil. We kept one and exchanged the other. We showed that things had changed, and we could afford to act tough. We bought Laca and Auba for 50+M when earlier we couldnt buy a Suarez whose release clause we knew. And now we went and bought Saliba and Pepe. These are steps back up the ladder.

My definition is different. A big club is that which only wants #1 position and isnt happy with anything less.
 

Kingofthebongo

Active Member
My definition is different. A big club is that which only wants #1 position and isnt happy with anything less.
Fair enough, it's all just semantics. I can see your point under your definition, but personally would call that competitiveness as I would still consider a team like Dortmund, Manchester United, Arsenal, Atletico, AC/Inter Milan "big clubs". Except for Atletico none of those could possibly compete for #1 spot, aka CL title. There is a bit of leeway of rebuild or down turn in the cycle of success - I see it in a Macro context but perhaps not so Macro that Leeds, Everton, Feyenoord etc are big clubs.
 

arsenefc

Obsessed With Guendouzi
Fair enough, it's all just semantics. I can see your point under your definition, but personally would call that competitiveness as I would still consider a team like Dortmund, Manchester United, Arsenal, Atletico, AC/Inter Milan "big clubs". Except for Atletico none of those could possibly compete for #1 spot, aka CL title. There is a bit of leeway of rebuild or down turn in the cycle of success - I see it in a Macro context but perhaps not so Macro that Leeds, Everton, Feyenoord etc are big clubs.

you are right...a club may spend a season or two rebuilding towards an eventual league title challenge or CL challenge. Lets hope thats what we are now.
 

freeglennhelder2

Established Member

Country: England

Player:Elneny
What?

We are still a big club. We may have had a **** team the last few years, but we're still a big club. Talk to me when we've spent decades in the Europa League or under it. We also were a big club BEFORE Wenger, so I dunno what you're even talking about there.


I write “The teams outside the top six look a bit tasty this year

You read “Arsenal are no longer a big club and it was Wenger wot made us big anyway

Wot?

Anyway. With this squad It’s the most optimistic I’ve been in years...... 3rd I say :trophy:
 

Taneruit

Established Member

Country: Switzerland

Player:Zinchenko
I write “The teams outside the top six look a bit tasty this year

You read “Arsenal are no longer a big club and it was Wenger wot made us big anyway

Wot?

Anyway. With this squad It’s the most optimistic I’ve been in years...... 3rd I say :trophy:

Wot? is right.

I responded (and quoted) to arsenefc (who did say we're no longer a big club in his initial post), not to you. I even had a conversation with him afterwards.
 

freeglennhelder2

Established Member

Country: England

Player:Elneny
Wot? is right.

I responded (and quoted) to arsenefc (who did say we're no longer a big club in his initial post), not to you. I even had a conversation with him afterwards.

Apologies....I even scrolled up to check if it was a reply to someone else before sending that....you gotta use the reply button dude, or your quote of arsenfc has got deleted somehow. :lol::lol:

The concept of Arsenal as a big club starting and ending with Wenger is the exact opposite of what I believe.

!!COYG!!


Edit: I finally worked out what happened here....All posts or quotes from ”arsenefc” are hidden from me... my bad
 
Last edited:

arsenefc

Obsessed With Guendouzi
Apologies....I even scrolled up to check if it was a reply to someone else before sending that....you gotta use the reply button dude, or your quote of arsenfc has got deleted somehow. :lol::lol:

The concept of Arsenal as a big club starting and ending with Wenger is the exact opposite of what I believe.

!!COYG!!

Well, the poll says 15% think we will make top2 in the league. So this season, we aint a big club, not even in the mind of our fans.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Well, the poll says 15% think we will make top2 in the league. So this season, we aint a big club, not even in the mind of our fans.
Sorry but what exactly is your definition of a 'big club'? Sounds like United aren't a big club in your eyes. Which is plain wrong...
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
- a club which targets winning the league.
We are targeting a league win. But it isn't as simple as saying "hey, we're going for it'. You have to build a squad capable of winning the league. Bizarre metric to use for a big club.

P.S. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ai-emery-new-contract-lacazette-a9071226.html

“Aside from that, to fight for the title, we know very well that the big guns are ready but we are also ready and in any case we are going to give our all to match the big guns if possible.”


There you have one of our star players stating clearly that winning the league is always in the plans.

By your standard only Liverpool and City are a big club. Leaving off the list Chelsea, Arsenal, United and Sp**s. Absolutely bizarre.
 

arsenefc

Obsessed With Guendouzi
We are targeting a league win. But it isn't as simple as saying "hey, we're going for it'. You have to build a squad capable of winning the league. Bizarre metric to use for a big club.

P.S. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ai-emery-new-contract-lacazette-a9071226.html

“Aside from that, to fight for the title, we know very well that the big guns are ready but we are also ready and in any case we are going to give our all to match the big guns if possible.”


There you have one of our star players stating clearly that winning the league is always in the plans.

By your standard only Liverpool and City are a big club. Leaving off the list Chelsea, Arsenal, United and Sp**s. Absolutely bizarre.

15% votes here are for a top2 finish. How many believe we are targeting the title? and for the record, like every year, i voted for #1.

look at the thread title.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
15% votes here are for a top2 finish. How many believe we are targeting the title? and for the record, like every year, i voted for #1.
So because the fan base is realistic about their expectations where as you are completely unrealistic, we're not a big club? Still absolutely bizarre metric to use.
We're a big club because we have pull, a massive history, a brand that is known world wide, an elite stadium, a trophy room full from years of winning, or at least winning something each decade. But by all means, make up your own bogus metric to define what a big club is.

The fans are not voting for a title challenge because they can see we are in a transitional phase and need time to get back to the top. It isn't about not thinking we're a big club. We ARE a big club. One of the biggest in fact.
 

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