Qatari Investment In Arsenal

[Barry]

It's been very well known that owning sports clubs or franchises for these nations is a way of whitewashing their misdees. Then we're not moving away from fossil ressources anytime soon just because a few well off nations try to move away from gasoline on bonkers plans - e.g. oil is also used in the beauty industry etc. and probably most ironically in the production of different plastics, some of which are needed to build e.g. wind power plants. And lets not forget about any other country that's not so well off to come up with such stupid ideas. The world isn't moving away from fossile ressources. And while it is a finite source we're not running out of it currently.

Those Saudis buying Newcastle is nothing about diversifying their investments, it's all about whitewashing.

Personally I don't buy that it's "All about" sports washing, although I do think image and brand is a significant motivation, I also think that money is at least as significant. I'm on weaker ground with my diversification theory, but you are off the mark by saying that the world "isn't moving away from Fossil resources" imo. It's a complex topic, but most of the world most certainly is on that trajectory - look at cars and energy as two examples. Yes oil (and coal, gas, peat etc) will remain important but the long term trajectory is away from these fuels. It's not ironic that plastic is used in the production of wind farms either. It's an incredible material - burning plastic to create energy would be unsustainable, but making wind farms is surely not.

Anyway, your initial disbelief at my post may still be completely valid, but I'm sure there are middle eastern countries seekng to diversify away from oil & gas. For example -

UAE Economic Diversification Efforts Continue to Thrive | UAE Embassy in Washington, DC

In 2015, 70 percent of the UAE’s GDP came from non-oil sectors, including media, telecom, tourism, manufacturing and commercial aviation. Underscoring the UAE’s emergence as a hub for business, the Global Entrepreneurship and Development Institute recently named the UAE the top country for...

www.uae-embassy.org

 

[Toby]

It's a complex topic, but most of the world most certainly is on that trajectory

If you just look at the first world.

It's not ironic that plastic is used in the production of wind farms either. It's an incredible material - burning plastic to create energy would be unsustainable, but making wind farms is surely not.

Building e.g. wind farms from ressources that are not sustainable is one of those problems on the level of making it harder and more expensive to buy diesel run cars. I've got a mate in MB controlling and know the numbers, which are of course confidential, but what we're doing currently moving to electric **** while we still rely on fossile energy to actually manufacture seemingly climate neutral stuff like car batteries and wind turbines is stupid. And let's not talk about consequences in third world countries we get some of the ressources from. In the case of Saudi Arabia we don't even need to get too complicated; we buy their oil, be it to make gasoline or plastics or whatever.

 

[#254]

I don't know why you fans accept these takeovers to occur but then go and protest super league in your thousands. Both long term damage the state of football.

If you can't beat em, you ****ing join em!

 

[Barry]

If you just look at the first world.



Building e.g. wind farms from ressources that are not sustainable is one of those problems on the level of making it harder and more expensive to buy diesel run cars. I've got a mate in MB controlling and know the numbers, which are of course confidential, but what we're doing currently moving to electric **** while we still rely on fossile energy to actually manufacture seemingly climate neutral stuff like car batteries and wind turbines is stupid. And let's not talk about consequences in third world countries we get some of the ressources from. In the case of Saudi Arabia we don't even need to get too complicated; we buy their oil, be it to make gasoline or plastics or whatever.

I think this is getting off topic so I'm not going to give a long response. Agree with a lot of what you are saying - population growth and less developed countries will both drive continued fossil fuel usage and there will still be high (but falling) demand. Also agree that embodied carbon from materials & waste is also important - but in the case of the examples you gave (batteries & wind turbines), it's massively less than the operational emissions reductions. There is a huge body of data on this. If there wasn't, the big environmental charities wouldn't be pushing for these technologies.

 

[freeglennhelder2]

97% of Newcastle fans backed a Saudi takeover. Even their LGBT+ supporters group stated it could be perceived as ‘an opportunity for change’ for the regime. If you think the numbers would be vastly different for the Arsenal fanbase just because of a couple of extra Guardian readers then you’re living in a world of puppy dogs & ice cream.

 

[drippin]

Probably one of AM's Arabic posters can give a better version than this, but I think that many of the middle eastern nations are trying to diversify their economies away from oil, partly because it's a finite resource which is running out and partly because of reduced demand as the world finally starts responding to climate change.

There are theories that oil is not a finite resource, but renews deep inside the Earth. There have been cases, where an "empty" oil field has filled again, but the oil industry of course doesn't want anyone know about it, because that would mean less money.

Anyway, I agree with you that we can't be in anyway sure that it's only about whitewashing. One other thing not yet mentioned is just for fun. They have all the money in the world, so they need some fun hobbies.

Whitewashing theory doesn't work at all for people like me, who know what they have done, and we only know the surface. Owning a football club doesn't affect my view of them at all.

 

[tap-in]

Owning a football club has many benefits, one is to impress clients. Ok they could just buy a box at any big club, some do that already, but to get the full impact there's nothing like impressing clients and closing deals after VIP treatment at your own big club.

My brother in law used to work for Amex, travelled all over the world and handled Lewis Hamilton's account among others. He has zero interest in football yet he's been to more games than I have, all in a box with clients. He also stayed in a London Hotel once and flew by helicopter into Silverstone for the British GP. Sporting events are used to do a lot of business, not even connected to sport.

 

[Trilly]

Lock please, super depressing.

 

[RacingPhoton]

Personally I don't buy that it's "All about" sports washing, although I do think image and brand is a significant motivation, I also think that money is at least as significant. I'm on weaker ground with my diversification theory, but you are off the mark by saying that the world "isn't moving away from Fossil resources" imo. It's a complex topic, but most of the world most certainly is on that trajectory - look at cars and energy as two examples. Yes oil (and coal, gas, peat etc) will remain important but the long term trajectory is away from these fuels. It's not ironic that plastic is used in the production of wind farms either. It's an incredible material - burning plastic to create energy would be unsustainable, but making wind farms is surely not.

Anyway, your initial disbelief at my post may still be completely valid, but I'm sure there are middle eastern countries seekng to diversify away from oil & gas. For example -

UAE Economic Diversification Efforts Continue to Thrive | UAE Embassy in Washington, DC

In 2015, 70 percent of the UAE’s GDP came from non-oil sectors, including media, telecom, tourism, manufacturing and commercial aviation. Underscoring the UAE’s emergence as a hub for business, the Global Entrepreneurship and Development Institute recently named the UAE the top country for...

www.uae-embassy.org

I agree with you that the world is indeed moving away from fossil fuels. But I find it hard to believe that buying a football club is motivated by that. There are so many ways safer ways for these guys to diversify their incomes. You don't see shrewd businessmen like Bezos or Gates or Warren Buffet diversify their income by buying football clubs. A football club is an incredibly high risk investment.

 

[RacingPhoton]

If you just look at the first world.



Building e.g. wind farms from ressources that are not sustainable is one of those problems on the level of making it harder and more expensive to buy diesel run cars. I've got a mate in MB controlling and know the numbers, which are of course confidential, but what we're doing currently moving to electric **** while we still rely on fossile energy to actually manufacture seemingly climate neutral stuff like car batteries and wind turbines is stupid. And let's not talk about consequences in third world countries we get some of the ressources from. In the case of Saudi Arabia we don't even need to get too complicated; we buy their oil, be it to make gasoline or plastics or whatever.

I think wind energy and solar energy should should only be seen as a compliment when it comes to replace fossil fuels. The answer lies in nuclear energy.

 

[Barry]

You don't see shrewd businessmen like Bezos or Gates or Warren Buffet diversify their income by buying football clubs. A football club is an incredibly high risk investment.

Yeah that's the bit I struggle to fit neatly into any sort of narrative about why foreign businessmen (or countries) buy football clubs. The obvious answer that most seem to be vanity purchases that are done either to boost image / as a status symbol / or because the owner(s) have loads of spare cash and love football.

I don't agree with you that "shrewd businessman" don't buy clubs though. Sure, the ones you've listed haven't, but they've spent or donated masses of money on their own pet projects. Tech billionaires have diversified as well - look at how many companies Google & Facebook own - they just don't need to diversify away from tech (because it's booming).

Plenty of shrewd business people buying football clubs - Mike Ashley & Thaksin Shinawatra as examples at Newcastle & City before the current owners. Both had nothing to do with football previously.

The "football club is a high risk investment" point is also factually completely true. But then again there's also lots of people making money from owning Prem clubs. Our own Kroneke's being a good example. It almost seems like the most successful people are the ones that can throw the most money at it weirdly. The lower tier millionaires / billionaires don't have enough to invest.

Sorry, that was a bit of a ramble. I just think the "Saudi's are only buying Newcastle to sports wash" argument is a bit simplistic. I think they do see it as an image opportunity but there's probably more going on besides.

 

[RacingPhoton]

I don't agree with you that "shrewd businessman" don't buy clubs though. Sure, the ones you've listed haven't, but they've spent or donated masses of money on their own pet projects. Tech billionaires have diversified as well - look at how many companies Google & Facebook own - they just don't need to diversify away from tech (because it's booming).

Yes. I find it more believable to think the football clubs to be pet projects for the middle eastern owners than a way to diversify their portfolio. As for Google/Facebook, what a company owns is different from what individuals own. Companies play to their strength. These are basically tech companies. So it makes sense to buy different companies within tech space. But individuals are not limited by that.

The richest person in India owns an IPL cricket club. But there is a clear FFP in play. So the expenses are limited and there is a guarantee on profits they make. But football clubs can go either way. Maybe the Saudi owners genuinely believe that there is money to be made there. Or they could see it as a way to launder their money. Hard to be sure.

 

[Barry]

There are theories that oil is not a finite resource, but renews deep inside the Earth.

That's a new one to me, everything I've read says that the fossil fuels are basically compressed plant life which takes millions of years to form. That's the problem - we are burning & releasing 50 million years worth of stored carbon over a period of 200 years or so.

The earth is pretty amazing though, I suppose it wouldn't surprise me if there was some natural process for making oil geothermally.

 

[drippin]

That's a new one to me, everything I've read says that the fossil fuels are basically compressed plant life which takes millions of years to form. That's the problem - we are burning & releasing 50 million years worth of stored carbon over a period of 200 years or so.

The earth is pretty amazing though, I suppose it wouldn't surprise me if there was some natural process for making oil geothermally.

Those are the basic theories, but once accepted, it's not so likely someone will develop new ones, especially when oil industry surely won't give any funding to it. And usually when someone challenges the science that is the accepted norm, they will be pushed out of the science society.

One of the ideas would be that there are some micro-organisms deep inside the Earth, which give oil as a byproduct.

 

[Alexs]

The Saudis don’t need to launder money at Newcastle. They can do that in Washington or London. It’s an image thing with a bit of boredom and keeping up with the Joneses thrown in.

 

[El Duderino]

Lock please, super depressing.

Ok, @TimoJens

 

[Oxeki]

Lock please, super depressing.

Arsenal fans hounded out Usmanov but now twerking for the Saudis?

 

[Tom Mix]

I don't give a good god damn who owns our club so long as they put money in it and run it properly. If you want to fix the world get into politics. I find these discussions on morals in football artificial, forced, fake and tedious.

If it makes people feel good about themselves to oppose Saudis, Qataris or whoever bully for you but don't kid yourselves - you're not fooling anyone. Your high principles go out the window whenever you see some advantage to yourself.

Only today I was seeing some pics of an old bat I know marching against some climate shi te or other - the rest of her social media is full of the safaris, long-haul and short-haul holidays she takes and the expensive places she lives in and frequents. And I am supposed to give up flying or driving or having a log-fire so this disgusting toad can bring up her spoilt grandchildren in guiltless luxury while they displace their guilt onto everyone else? Get lost!!!

 

[Kav]

Arsenal fans hounded out Usmanov but now twerking for the Saudis?

Goes to show some Arsenal fans are just idiots who are incapable of independent thoughts. That being said I have not seen anything concrete or otherwise signifying any actual interest in Arsenal recently. This thread should probably be locked as it gives the impression something is going on when it is not the case.

 

[TinFish]

I don't know why you fans accept these takeovers to occur but then go and protest super league in your thousands. Both long term damage the state of football.

If every club is owned by a state or super billionaire this would in fact be healthy competition lol