Reiss Nelson: 2019/20 Performances

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by razörist, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. I really dont understand what people see in Saka. His speed is doing what strength did for Iwobi, covering alot of his flaws. He is our new Walcott, without the blistering pace, or the finishing. He can run in a straight line and that is about it, oh and sometimes he can deliver a competent cross. Most of the time he looks like he is unaware that teammates are a thing that exists in football. He might make it in the PL one day, but he is wholly unfit for purpose at Arsenal. He should play in a team that lies deep waiting for the counter, not one that dominates possession, and relies on vision and technique of its players like Arsenal should aim to do.
     
  2. The_Playmaker

    The_Playmaker Well-Known Member

    Needs to sort his footwear out. There is legitimately no excuse for slipping over the amount that he does. It literally does my head in. Too worried about looking good in Adidas sponsored boots, just wear boots that allow you to turn or cut back without falling over.
     
  3. Afro Mugo

    Afro Mugo Active Member

    I think I'll take the @MutableEarth approach and let the youngsters do the talking. If you followed Saint Maximins career you'd be aware of how inconsistent he was in France before getting his PL move. Sold by Etienne to Monaco for peanuts got loaned out to the Bundesliga/2nd Bundesliga during that Monaco golden generation and even after they left he was sold to Nice in favour of other talents such as Keita Balde and Marcos Lopes . He's come from far and has more than 100 appearances on his belt before moving to Newcastle. He's being sold twice for little money before Nice got their big payday .
     
    Camron likes this.
  4. Football Manager

    Football Manager Broken Record

    Yes I know all that. That’s why in my previous post, I said Saint Maximin’s decision making and final delivery are not good enough.

    In the post that you quoted, I was comparing their dribbling skills only. Not other attributes.
     
  5. Moah

    Moah Well-Known Member

    Truth be told, Saka has done more at left back than Nelson in his preferred position.
     
  6. Tomb Bombadil

    Tomb Bombadil Active Member

    I really don't see that atm. He's very talented and young but I don't see him coming to the level of those 2. I mean he's still can have the better carrer as CHO because he's so much injured but why is he less performing if he's so talented combined with so much dedication and right mind-set? Choaching is the only point but I also think he's a bit less talented.

    This! Nelson works hard on and off the pitch.

    I don't know if he wasn't properly coached. But I feel his movement and positioning is his biggest problem. And that's where I put all the faith in Arteta.
     
  7. You can see that the basic ingredients are there. His first touch, and technique as well as vision, both off and on the ball is elite.

    The defenders are just that i millisecond faster than what he is used to. Where in germany he would leave a defender in the dust with a turn or a burst, a PL defender can get a toe on the ball or a block.

    If his body and his instinct can adapt to operating just that millisecond faster, then he is going to be elite. And i think it is doable.

    Look at the season Pepe has had, and he is supposedly entering his prime. He took twice the amount of time that Reiss has had so far to get his first goal.
     
  8. The_Playmaker

    The_Playmaker Well-Known Member

    I think Nelson is misunderstood by a lot of fans to be honest. I don't think he is a winger. He isn't going to ride challenges and beat mutiple defenders with pace. He isn't as direct as that. I see people comparing him with Sterling but they are nothing alike. Sterling is so much quicker.

    I think Nelson is quick, but he doesn't have blistering pace. Martinelli for example can leaves defenders with pace alone. Saka has the directness and confidence to trust in his body strength to ride challenges.

    It may not be a popular comparison, but Thiago and Isco are players that Nelson reminds me of. Intelligent in picking up space. He likes to give and go and although we haven't seen it yet, he isn't like Iwobi. Nelson CAN shoot and has very good shooting technique.

    His standout trait is his quick feet from a standing position. So if he is in the box he is dangerous. Arteta coached him at 16 and knows what he can do.

    People need to stop placing so much pressure on our young players. Reiss Nelson is 20, AMN is 22, Martinelli is 18, ESR is 19, Willock is 20, Saka is 18. They have all had minutes.



    Nelson has been on loan, played wingback, central midfield, left wing, right wing and is now starting regularly in the Premier League. Nelson has the potential to be a very good player at 24. Let him develop over the next few years and see where he is, rather than writing him off as not good enough.

    If we went back in time and placed Gnabry at the same age he made his debut in the current Arsenal team, people would be moaning at him and wanting him sold. Gnabry was a beast at youth level and lacked confidence at senior level. People forget how conservative he was when he played for the first team. He is a totally different player and think about how many wasted years he had through injury or bad loans and still managed to develop.

    Gnabry at Arsenal in one of his better games:


    Modern day Gnabry at 24:



    If you are old enough, just think of yourself at 18 and then 24. There is a massive difference. It is no different in terms of a footballer. If a player doesn't show improvement between 18-24, then you can sell them on. However, giving up on them at the age of 18-20 is just stupid. There is so much potential growth in what we have, and yet people spend their time just putting them down.

    Saka can start at left back in the Premier league at the age of 18. It is insane that he receives any sort of criticism. He plays left back, left wing, right wing, with literally no problem, at 18! That is absolutely ridiculous. Can someone please name me another 18 year old playing multiple positions well in the Premier League? He has been thrown in at the highest footballing level in the world and literally not only holds his own, but massively influences the way we play. Imagine Saka at 24. Just think of a quicker, stronger, taller, more intelligent, experienced player, more confident player. It is basically the Gnabry trajectory. Yet he is already showing glimpses of end product.

    AMN has come in for so much stick. Played as a holding midfielder for England under 20, yet thrown in our first team at left back, right back, right wing back, left wing back, right wing. Even playing CM for us on occasion. He is still only 22, and we are so quick to say that he lacks concentration, that his passing isn't good enough, that his first touch isn't good enough, that his positioning is off. Well you know what, he has everything needed in order to be a very good player. The jump in his development over the next two years under someone like Arteta could be absolutely massive. One positional tweak has given him confidence. The person who can't pass, can ping 60 yard balls across the pitch, pass with his weaker foot and influence our game massively in the space of two weeks. Enough to have people writing off Bellerin, which is just as stupid by the way.

    Willock has been thrown in and demonstrated end product, driving runs, tackles, goals from all sorts of areas, the ability to arrive in the box and physical strength while still not being physically developed. People talk about spending big money on someone like Doucoure. Willock is basically a younger less developed version with more potential. He has shown massive strides from 18 to 20. Think about him in 4 years time. He could be immense and is already capable of being relied upon.

    ESR has massive potential. He reminds me of Gerrard in terms of his physical problems. He has grown so much from 16 to 19. His muscular issues have held him back, but they wont be there forever. A loan to a physically demanding English league, where he needs to focus on his physical development is what he will get. Because technically he is superb. Shooting, dribbling, first touch. He needs to develop awareness and have his head up more, but that can come with playing time and age. I am excited about ESR. He just needs time.

    Nelson is so talented. I see him developing like an Isco or Thiago and eventually feeling more comfortable drifting centrally because he literally has the skill set to do it. He can shoot, beat a man on the dribble, see a pass and has a good first touch. He can accelerate from a standing position with quick feet, like Willian or Thiago. Give this guy time. He had a loan where he demonstrated glimpses of ability. He played in multiple positions on loan, he has played multiple positions for us. He still has a lot of developing to do physically and he needs a coach who gives him confidence like Arteta and a fan base to get behind him, because he has massive potential. Freddie and Arteta started him for a reason. They can see that Nelson in 4 years time could be a massive player at this club.

    Grealish is 24 years old. Do people think he was the same player at 19?

    Also, just for the record. All of our players get a hard time for various reasons. The state of the club, the frustration at not having ready made players, but also because of other young players who are superstars from a young age. We see these players have high profile performances, but miss their bad games and bad moments. We don't see them learning and developing. Soumare is being hyped up massively, yet he is the same age as Willock. Is he better? I wouldn't even say he is. Why spend 40 million on a box t o box who hasn't got a goal to his name this season. I'd rather put my faith in someone who bangs one into the top corner vs Liverpool.

    A quick word on Martinelli. Its unfortunate and both forunate that we have him. Unfortunate that other young players will be judged against him and that we will lose him if we do not become a competitive team in the next 3 years, but fortunate to have such a talent on our books. He has literally everything you want in a modern day centre forward and this is before he is physically developed. He still looks like kid. Put that into perspective. Imagine him at 23. We need to make sure we nuture this talent as it potentiallly world class.
     
    Mraven, Nemetoss, Afro Mugo and 15 others like this.
  9. Football Manager

    Football Manager Broken Record

    When I saw Gnabry play for the first team. He was already an amazing player with stunning attributes.

    Nelson’s strength are supposed to be his skills and dribbling but his dribbling isn’t even that good. Look at Hudson Odoi or Sancho, or even Saint Maximin... they have crazy skills in their locker to beat any defenders 1v1 1v2 or 1v3 anytime with ease.

    We shouldn’t give them up at a young age? So why did we give up on some like Gavin Hoyte at a young age? Why not give him a few years to turn him into a world class player.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  10. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    Bravo
     

  11. Good for you. Most of the fanbase wasnt particularly a fan of him though. These are just a few picks from his transfer thread.

    "If he was a real talent he would've made the breakthrough. He's just another one to add to the long list including names like Merida, Afobe, Bentley, Lansbury. Zelalem will be added to it soon enough. Arsenal fans will do well to stop hyping up these 16 year olds in the future."

    "
    Never been particularly good for us .

    Can't say I particularly care"


    "Let him go to Brighton, he's not getting ahead of Ox, Campbell, Walcott and Alexis regardless of form."

    Did you actually take the time to read the post above you at all? your comment suggests you didn't
     
    Afro Mugo, berric and StefanB like this.
  12. Oxeki

    Oxeki Well-Known Member

    Saka has made far more impact for arsenal than Nelson.

    This is from someone who doesn't rate Saka
     
  13. UpTheGunnerz

    UpTheGunnerz No Longer Phallus Obsessed

    Always though it a bit suspicious that certain posters were raving to their grave about him. Seems my feeling was right....for now. Ofc he can improve. Still young n dat
     
  14. Idiotologue

    Idiotologue Well-Known Member

    Saka is two years younger than Nelson, hasn't been on loan and gotten playing time elsewhere, and he still has had more positive impact on the team than Nelson has. Let's not act like a 18 year old is a finished product technically.

    I see your point, but there's clearly a difference between Gnabry and Nelson when it comes to opportunities given at the age of 20. By the time Gnabry was 20, he had played in a total number of 10 league games for us. He then went on loan to West Brom where he played in 1 league game. That's 11 league games at the top level at the age of 21. He featured in a total number of 3 European competition games in the same time period. He was never given the opportunity to actually leave a mark in first team football until he was sold to Werder Bremen.

    Nelson, on the other hand, has featured in 12 league games for Arsenal and had a 23-league game loan spell at Hoffenheim at the age of 20. He's played in 15 European competition games already - 10 for Arsenal and 5 for Hoffenheim. He's had far more opportunity than Gnabry did to showcase his talents, so there's more material to go off of when it comes to evaluating him.

    I think he has the talent to make it here as a dependable rotation player, but I just don't see the star we'd hope he'd be.
     
  15. yorch44

    yorch44 Well-Known Member

    He is 18 and not bad defending. He can learn a lot a make a good LB
     
  16. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    Now Saka is catching strays. Honestly, just back the both of them ffs.
     
    Afro Mugo likes this.
  17. Ash10

    Ash10 Jury Lite

    Comparing Nelson to Gnabry is unfair. I still am annoyed about the fact that people rated Iwobi(some even didn’t want him sold for 40 frickin million) & didn’t rate Gnabry, who was clearly superior in almost every important facet of the game.
    I really used to have high hopes of Nelson. I used to like him very much in the younger teams. But the moment he got into the senior team I started to lose faith. He always looks 'scared', he works hard but has no edge to his game. Everything he does looks suspect. I'm not saying we should sell him atm but he shouldn't be starting for us.
    It’s a common theme for fans to overrate academy players. We've been the victim of that too many times.
    Of the current young guys, I genuinely rate Martinelli(I mean obviously) & ESR(barring injuries). AMN is proving me wrong & Saka may end up being decent but Willock & Nelson just haven’t done enough till now
     
  18. Garrincha

    Garrincha Wilf Zaha Aficionado

    Even with how great Gnabry turned out cant think of a time where he really deserved a run of games. Its only AMN after that Southampton performance when the midfield was on its knees & the Eddie brace when goals were hard I was surprised never got the next start or a little run.

    Now its just the opposite. You can come off a poor loan, an injury or even get a run out of position because the squad is so bad. Much prefer when the youngsters earn the chance & are brought in with the best chance to succeed.
     
  19. Kysus

    Kysus Well-Known Member

    Selling a player with that potential would be crazy.

    You can always sell later if he does not reach his potential
     

  20. Certainly i agree. So far he has shown more end product at least. But we cant be concerned with history only.

    For a non football example. Germany has started both world wars, but is it likely that they will be responsible for the third in todays political climate? no.

    We do have to think about, what are they good at, how good are they likely to become at those things, and how useful are those things to the team?.

    The things Nelson are OK at is just more useful to the way Arsenal wants to play if he can become good at them, than what Saka is already semi good at. Atleast in an attacking position. If he would be ok with playing deeper i might see him staying.

    I like him, and i would love to be wrong, but i just cant see him in an arsenal attacking line 4/5 years from now.
     

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