Country: Iceland
I think we just have to be positive and think of it about as 17 games and 6 goals at age 19 in Bundesliga is still half glass full instead of half glass empty.
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Reiss Nelson: Time to Shine?
- Thread starter MutableEarth
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Country: Iceland
How so? He was loaned out half a season to West Bromwich in 2015, never got a proper chance with the first team at Arsenal and then left.
How that deal was constructed, Bayern basically loaned him out first to Bremen for a season and then properly to Hoffenheim for another season. Both times he was consistently used and one of the best players at these clubs. Now he's back at Bayern making his way.
Tourbillion
Angry & Miserable
As usual an Arsenal player has underwhelming loan spell.
Sick of it.
Sick of it.
Country: Australia
What I mean is when there is personality clashes between the Coach and player , like Pulis and Gnabry doesn't mean that the player is permanently flawed .
Wrighty4eva
Established Member
Makes some sense, after his lack of playing time he has lost some focus, looking at his gram he seems less than bothered anymore. Hoffenheim don't even play like a team just need him to come back a d showcase his talents with us.
kraphtous
Raul Stanllehi
That is disappointing from Nelson, he really didn't deserve more minutes based on his cameos.
It's like Denis Suarez getting pissed off at the lack of minutes here. He should've put his head down, work hard and earn the minutes. Doesn't bode well for his chances at Arsenal where he has way more competition.
It's like Denis Suarez getting pissed off at the lack of minutes here. He should've put his head down, work hard and earn the minutes. Doesn't bode well for his chances at Arsenal where he has way more competition.
Contrary to those who say Nagelsmann/Nelson wasn't a good fit, I think it was and it's more about Nelson than Hoffenheim that he didn't play more often. Especially with Emery as current Arsenal manager who's had a whole saga with Özil because of "workrate", getting that workrate and defensive awareness coached into his game by one of the biggest managerial talents out there was a great opportunity. It's a bit of a shame that Hoffenheim offensively don't flow this season as they did last, but nonetheless if it's about workrate and discipline it's definitely more Nelson's fault he isn't getting more game time. Gnabry, a very similar player, was a guaranteed starter for Nagelsmann when fit - so it's not just the basic profile of him the manager doesn't like. Moreover, if it's down to discipline and not liking the coach giving you instructions from the sidelines to work harder, he won't have it any easier elsewhere nowadays.
<<reed>>
Lidl Tir Na Nog
NaGeLsMaNn iS HoLdInG HiM BaCk
Furious
Emery Gone, Telly Back On
Nelson to come back and send Iwobi back to the reserves? Love to see it.
- Thread starter
- #1,710
I'm not sure I agree. Maybe to an extent - but Nagelsmann benched him while he was gaining momentum which didn't make sense to me at the time. It does now, as I'm seeing a lot of Hoffenheim's first teamers back in the fray after spells of injury. If it's a case of not working hard enough then he deserves to be dropped - but as the article says, it's an "educational measure" independent of performance, which suggests that it's not an issue of performance but, as you say, one of discipline.
I do think he's not a fit for their squad, but he could have had a way worse manager that's for sure. I just don't think it benefits him to not play. If it's of his own doing, then fair enough, but it's extremely disappointing as he's one of our biggest talents and should be playing a lot more football than he is. Additionally, I'm really dubious about whether him not working hard enough is the right narrative here - I do not get that impression about Nelson.
I do get your perspective, but if it's disciplinary reasons then not playing might just benefit him: "If you mess around/don't work hard, you don't play." That can very well be an beneficary lesson.
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- #1,712
Agreed actually. Wonder what the issue was?
I honestly think it's frustration over not playing, but he has to channel that more constructively rather than acting out.
squallman
Still Pining for Wenger
Honestly this type of thinking is why I want a clear out in the summer. We've got a lot of 6/10 steady eddy players blocking our youngsters from coming through. Wenger started this experienced player over youngsters right around 2013 or so and I've hated it ever since.
I don't want us to pull a Chelsea and lose a bunch of talented young kids by holding on to squad players for too long. If Chelsea's kids don't leave like De Bruyne and Salah they end up rotting on the bench like Christensen and Loftus Cheek
Is Mkhitaryan at 30 years old playing at THAT high of a level that we should automatically put him ahead of Nelson for 38 premier league games?
In recent years I've found that we've played our senior boys in the league rainfall, sunshine regardless of how they play. An Arsenal youth player can't buy a start in the league even if an Özil/Mkhi/Xhaka/Lacazette stinks it out 5 games in a row. Unless his name is Guendouzi that is.
What I'm saying is, we don't have Henry, Etoo and Messi up front or Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez.
Give the kids a chance next season, a real chance and let us see what they can do. The likes of Ramsey, Wilshere and Chesney would have never broken through if Wenger refused to play them because of Song, Rosicky, Diaby and Fabianski.
EDIT:
I've also been annoyed at Emery and Wenger for this very reason. When we have defenders out, instead of giving a kid from the academy a chance both of them preferred to shunt people out of position. The very worst it got was when Emery played Xhaka of all people at CB/LB. Do you mean to tell me that Zach Medley couldn't have performed at least at the same level of Xhaka as a CB? At least the kid knows the basics. I'm sure that with the right protection Osei-Tutu could get through a game against some of the dross in the league.
Say what you will about LVG but he was never afraid to give youth a chance, some of them didn't work out but that's football. What's the point of having an academy if we won't give our own graduates the opportunity to succeed or fail?
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- Thread starter
- #1,714
I echo the sentiment at heart - think some outcomes could have been better had there been more trust but hindsight is useless after the fact. I'm comforted by the fact that there will be other opportunities, let's just hope we don't waste those either. I desperately hope we don't waste our talents.
Although I would add a caveat about the defence - I've seen enough of Zech Medley to deduce that he's probably not quite ready, has everything else down but needs work on actual defending, which he hasn't had to do much of in the first team. In the U23s, he's been troubled. Pleguezuelo and Ballard are better defensively, while Medley is much taller and pretty clean in possession in comparison.
Agree on Osei-Tutu though - definitely earned a cameo or a rare start.
<<reed>>
Lidl Tir Na Nog
Nobody is blocking our youngsters from coming through, Guendouzi is playing, Iwobi is playing. If you are good enough, you are old enough, simple.
We don't have Mbappe, Messi, Fabregas in the academy either, our most hyped academy product can't even buy minutes at Hoffenheim.
Maybe
You're wrong, no?
Wasn't Vieira sold to create space for Fabregas? It was a decision from Wenger to do that, not superior quality of Fabregas compared to Vieira.
We don't have that type of manager anymore to play youngsters here so we need to find better loan deals, I don't get it why we don't send players to Eredvise where we got regular playing time every time we've sent our youngster there.
- Thread starter
- #1,717
I think with a bit more bedding in, Emery might do so - he's shown a liking for Guendouzi and Smith-Rowe. It just won't be to the frequency that Wenger did during project youth. (This is my hope talking
)I think we need our own Vitesse also! Maybe not necessarily in the Dutch league but regular league football somewhere is the goal.
Hopefully more details will come out about the disciplinary action.. Not a good look for Nelson though, but hopefully he will take it the right way and learn from it.
squallman
Still Pining for Wenger
When a right back from the youth team can't buy a start ahead of a past it 35 year old, Jenkinson and a midfielder playing out of position, I'm not sure how true that good enough, old enough line is.
Was De Bruyne not good enough? He couldn't buy minutes at Chelsea. There are plenty of reasons besides a player's quality as to why he can't get minutes.
Gareth Bale is sometimes benched for Lucas Vasquez of all people. Does the latter have more ability than the former? Hell No.
Truthfully I think the loan system is broken. What incentive do clubs have to play loan players ahead of their own when push comes to shove? They won't get a transfer fee for them and all of their development will benefit another club.
Honestly, I think its time the big clubs started paying other clubs to loan their players. Not a transfer fee because a club could just pocket the money and still not play the kid. Incentivize it, 100k for every game he starts and completes 75 minutes in, that goes down to 50k if he comes off before then. Thirty games a season will amount to about 3 million pounds. A god send for a lower league club.
By the way, no one has Messi in their academy. If that is the standard then we might as well shut down the academy. What we do have are a number of good players who could do a job for us on the level of a Ray Parlour.
I will quickly hop into the Hoffenheim forum on transfermarkt and see if I can find more on it!
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