Reiss Nelson: Lionelson

[Macho]

Apart from Saka the rest are just decent, I wouldn't even mind selling Nelson and ESR they're all hype. Willock is good with potential but I doubt he's gonna dominate for a decade same with Nketiah and AMN and the likes. These are decent players but none really stand out apart from Saka. Guendouzi was better than the whole lot and he got kicked out.

I actually agree with this.

I think people that hope Willock/ESR are gonna come in and do a job in the prem are kidding themselves.

They aren’t bad, but yeah exactly - Guendouzi was far ahead and look at him.

One exception I do have is AMN, I do believe he could be better than Bellerin had he embraced that role instead.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

I actually agree with this.

I think people that hope Willock/ESR are gonna come in and do a job in the prem are kidding themselves.

They aren’t bad, but yeah exactly - Guendouzi was far ahead and look at him.

One exception I do have is AMN, I do believe he could be better than Bellerin had he embraced that role instead.

People just have rose tinted glasses when it comes to academy players, I've never really cared too much tbh.

 

[Macho]

People just have rose tinted glasses when it comes to academy players, I've never really cared too much tbh.

There’s some I like and hope they break through, but tbh after years of watching us churn them out and seeing them head down to championship or even lower I’ve also stopped caring.

I still remember Fran Merida, Einsfield, Nordveit etc. I very much expect Eddie for example to eventually head to a championship team eventually too. Which can still be a good career mind.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

There’s some I like and hope they break through, but tbh after years of watching us churn them out and seeing them head down to championship or even lower I’ve also stopped caring.

I still remember Fran Merida, Einsfield, Nordveit etc. I very much expect Eddie for example to eventually head to a championship team eventually too. Which can still be a good career mind.

I really thought Jay Emmanuel Thomas was gonna be the next best striker, after that I knew not to buy the hype of youth players.

Even look at it now, Saka is by far the best but he never got the hype of Nelson or ESR. Smith-Rowe could walk past me in the street and I wouldn't even know who he was but people keep telling me he's this amazing prospect.

 

[Kysus]

They are 20 years old ffs
About the age we loaned Gnabry to WBA and then gave him away for nothing...

Having elite decision making when they are 18 like Saka or Cesc is the exception not the rule

 

[GoonerJay24]

The hale end delusion is strong in this one

You don't think we have highly talented players?

 

[Macho]

You don't think we have highly talented players?

They are 100% talented.

I just think the jump to U23s to Prem football is difficult unless you’re a worldie or built like a grown man from the jump.

There are soooooo many instances of Premiership academy players who became worldclass outside of the premiership. Salah, KDB, Sancho, Gnabry - I could go on and on and on.

It’s not often a straight forward trajectory you need games week in week out and it costs points. Points that your typical prem manager doesn’t have to spare.

I think fans have unrealistic expectations sometimes. Saka is indeed one in a million.

 

[GoonerJay24]

Apart from Saka the rest are just decent, I wouldn't even mind selling Nelson and ESR they're all hype. Willock is good with potential but I doubt he's gonna dominate for a decade same with Nketiah and AMN and the likes. These are decent players but none really stand out apart from Saka. Guendouzi was better than the whole lot and he got kicked out.

I disagree; I'm not just talking about the Hale end boys too, I consider the likes of Martinelli and Guendouzi as part of the young generation

Saka, Nelson, ESR and Martinelli all have world class potential whilst the others could become very good players. They just need faith from the management.

Imagine this team in five years time after a few years of development and learning from mistakes

Leno
AMN Saliba Gabriel Tierney
Nelson Willock Partey/New DM Saka
ESR
Martinelli

With the likes of Jules, Smith, Nketiah and Azeez showing real promise too; I think we've got a great crop of youngsters here.

 

[GoonerJay24]

They are 100% talented.

I just think the jump to U23s to Prem football is difficult unless you’re a worldie from the jump.

There are soooooo many instances of Premiership academy players who became worldclass outside of the premiership. Salah, KDB, Sancho, Gnabry - I could go on and on and on.

It’s not often a straight forward trajectory you need games week in week out and it costs points. Points that your typical prem manager doesn’t have to spare.

I think fans have unrealistic expectations sometimes. Saka is indeed one in a million.

Salah and De-Bruyne weren't academy players in England. The only reason Sancho is so highly rated is due to joining a club with a philosophy of developing youth players.

Of course it isn't easy but the only way these players will grow is through continuous first team football. I would concede another couple of seasons without CL football if Arteta came out with a vision towards full youth integration into the first team.

But I here your point on management being a ruthless business nowadays which makes it difficult to adopt such an approach, especially in England and at a big club like Arsenal.
I personally think it's the way forwards though.

 

[Macho]

Salah and De-Bruyne weren't academy players in England. The only reason Sancho is so highly rated is due to joining a club with a philosophy of developing youth players.

Of course it isn't easy but the only way these players will grow is through continuous first team football. I would concede another couple of seasons without CL football if Arteta came out with a vision towards full youth integration into the first team.

But I here your point on management being a ruthless business nowadays which makes it difficult to adopt such an approach, especially in England and at a big club like Arsenal.
I personally think it's the way forwards though.

I stand corrected if Salah and Debruyne aren't academy products - I remember Chelsea signing them really young and them playing U23's so I may have got that wrong. I'm still correct in that they rose to prominence in Italy and Germany respectively and not the premiership where they didn't get the minutes.

My point is you rarely become a good player with 5 mins here, one cup game there - unless you're one of the few who are ready made (Cesc and Saka) and have qualities that allow you to learn on the job.

Many academy players fail, but not because they aren't talented or good. It's because the club they are at have to decide if they are in the development business or the results business.

Some leagues it's easier to be both. In the premiership, unless your hand is forced like early emirates or Chelsea last season, you're gonna favour results.

 

[MutableEarth]

Salah and De-Bruyne weren't academy players in England. The only reason Sancho is so highly rated is due to joining a club with a philosophy of developing youth players.

Of course it isn't easy but the only way these players will grow is through continuous first team football. I would concede another couple of seasons without CL football if Arteta came out with a vision towards full youth integration into the first team.

But I here your point on management being a ruthless business nowadays which makes it difficult to adopt such an approach, especially in England and at a big club like Arsenal.
I personally think it's the way forwards though.

I am one of very few that also believes that using Hale End more is something that will serve us well and lift us up - it's well known that I have a much more positive view of Hale End and it's graduates and I agree that regular first team football would see them improve exponentially. That we won't see it is a bit annoying to me in terms of my personal wants for the club going forward.

That said, Arteta has to balance the desire of the club to bring through it's own talents either for squad competition or assets for sale and the desire to be competitive in the higher echelons of the PL and Europe. Which ultimately is more important? I'm sure the majority of us would argue that being competitive at the top of the game matters more than the development of young players who may or may not succeed. We have our beliefs but it's got to be tempered with the progression of the club in general, not just the young players.

I have my personal views of course - I hate when underperforming seniors are prioritised over the younger players for example. I wouldn't bother calling for the younger players to play so much if so much of our senior players didn't play so ****.

 

[GoonerJay24]

I am one of very few that also believes that using Hale End more is something that will serve us well and lift us up - it's well known that I have a much more positive view of Hale End and it's graduates and I agree that regular first team football would see them improve exponentially. That we won't see it is a bit annoying to me in terms of my personal wants for the club going forward.

That said, Arteta has to balance the desire of the club to bring through it's own talents either for squad competition or assets for sale and the desire to be competitive in the higher echelons of the PL and Europe. Which ultimately is more important? I'm sure the majority of us would argue that being competitive at the top of the game matters more than the development of young players who may or may not succeed. We have our beliefs but it's got to be tempered with the progression of the club in general, not just the young players.

I have my personal views of course - I hate when underperforming seniors are prioritised over the younger players for example. I wouldn't bother calling for the younger players to play so much if so much of our senior players didn't play so ****.

Of course it's important to be competitive at the top end of the table. But that isn't guaranteed through exclusively using experienced players, you forget two of the greatest dominant club sides of the last thirty years had a core of players from their academy; Manchester United from 1995-2003 and also Barcelona 2007-2012.
That's the ultimate purpose of club football to dominate consistently for domestic and continental titles.

Like I said it'll mean lots of setbacks and sacrifices, however it's the right thing to do long-term. I only say this because we have some seriously talented youngsters who could become a brilliant team together if given the chance to develop.

 

[MutableEarth]

Of course it's important to be competitive at the top end of the table. But that isn't guaranteed by exclusively using experienced players, you forget two of the greatest dominant club sides of the last thirty years had a core of players from their academy; Manchester United from 1995-2003 and also Barcelona 2007-2012.
That's the ultimate purpose of club football to dominate consistently for domestic and continental titles.

Like I said it'll mean lots setbacks and sacrifices, however it's the right thing to do long-term. I only say this because we have some seriously talented youngsters who could become a brilliant team together if given the chance to develop.

I completely agree with everything here - the problem is from Arteta's POV and perhaps the POV of a lot of people, it isn't the logical decision. It's a risky one. Obviously I believe it will pay off, but there aren't any guarantees and there is a possibility that a failure would not only hinder the club but hinder the careers of these talented young players. I don't believe that would happen - indeed I feel, like you, that Hale End is criminally underrated by many even on here and it will help us succeed - but the safe decision is always going to be falling back on experience as a guide through tough times. It's not the decision that we'd all like but it's still the safer one in terms of known and unknown quantities. So we - and by extension the youngsters who are waiting in the wings - have to be somewhat patient here, as annoying as it is.

 

[Wrighty4eva]

See that take and control by Nelson, there's a proper player there waiting to explode, I beg Arteta drop the bum Willian and give Nelson a proper run in the team...

 

[Let's play Aubamawang]

See that take and control by Nelson, there's a proper player there waiting to explode, I beg Arteta drop the bum Willian and give Nelson a proper run in the team...

Lacazette probably asked Martinelli for tips on how to score those. Nelson does have tremendous talent, although he mainly seems to be on the right where he is less dangerous than cutting in from the left. It seems to me the best way to accommodate him is to either play him just behind the striker or in Auba's position, with the latter playing through the middle.

Only problem with the left side though, is if we play 4 at the back and have Tierney LB, we would need to put Saka somewhere too.

 

[Tourbillion]

Lacazette probably asked Martinelli for tips on how to score those. Nelson does have tremendous talent, although he mainly seems to be on the right where he is less dangerous than cutting in from the left. It seems to me the best way to accommodate him is to either play him just behind the striker or in Auba's position, with the latter playing through the middle.

Only problem with the left side though, is if we play 4 at the back and have Tierney LB, we would need to put Saka somewhere too.

Nelson Aubameyang Pepe

Saka Partey Elneny

Tierney Gabriel Luiz AMN

Leno

 

[Let's play Aubamawang]

Nelson Aubameyang Pepe

Saka Partey Elneny

Tierney Gabriel Luiz AMN

Leno

Sure, that is one way of doing it. But if we went with 3 man mid I'd rather let Saka dominate the wing, allowing Nelson to roam in dangerous areas a la Özil. Maybe this:

Saka Aubamayang Pepe

Nelson
Partey Elneny

Tierney Gabriel Luis AMN

 

[Tourbillion]

Sure, that is one way of doing it. But if we went with 3 man mid I'd rather let Saka dominate the wing, allowing Nelson to roam in dangerous areas a la Özil. Maybe this:

Saka Aubamayang Pepe

Nelson
Partey Elneny

Tierney Gabriel Luis AMN

Yes that could be good as well. I do wonder if Nelson is a bit more explosive than Saka though.

Even if Nelson is on the left wing, he can come inside and be a wide playmaker, frequently filling that number ten area anyway.

 

[Penn_]

Massive black mark against Edu and Arteta for not finding him a loan. At the moment his lucky to be making the bench.

You’d think we’d look at the 35M we got for Iwobi and want more of that.

Good loan spells could’ve easily seen us get 60M for Nelson, Willock and Nketiah. It’s not realistic to think they’ll all breakthrough here, especially when you block them with 40 year old players.

 

[Pyres7]

Massive black mark against Edu and Arteta for not finding him a loan. At the moment his lucky to be making the bench.

You’d think we’d look at the 35M we got for Iwobi and want more of that.

Good loan spells could’ve easily seen us get 60M for Nelson, Willock and Nketiah. It’s not realistic to think they’ll all breakthrough here, especially when you block them with 40 year old players.

They did try to loan him out, Palace were interested and I'm sure a lot of Championship teams would have taken him and given him plenty of playing time.

Reiss himself refused to go out on loan, he wanted to stay and fight for his place. Looking like a bad decision now.

Hope Arteta gives him more minutes but it's not looking likely. What's annoying for me is that he keeps putting players like Eddie on the bench who isn't really gonna change a game, why not have a player like Nelson there to give us something different?

Hopefully we see more of him in the cups, but if he's still not getting enough minutes he should go on loan in January.