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Reiss Nelson: Mutable's Son

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by MutableEarth, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    True but how frustrating is it gonna be when Arteta continually plays them even when they aren't playing great?
     
  2. Macho

    Macho Well-Known Member Trusted

    Looking at the fixture pile up Arteta will have no choice but to play him eventually.

    Nelson would have had to take bench at Palace too looking at their options, he did the right thing.
     
  3. Red London

    Red London Well-Known Member

    I want to see him play tomorrow, no excuses.
     
  4. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    @MutableEarth
    In addition to the below, I think Nelson has two main weaknesses:

    1) His play is too direct, he needs to slow down, and learn from the spainish players’ indirectness, on how they make passes and passes, dribbled and dribbles before getting into the opponent box.

    2) His play is getting way to simple. From what I’ve heard, he was once a skillful dribbler (like Hleb/Maximin?). But it seems that he wants to keep things simple now (becoming like walcott). This is shxt, and he needs to get back to who he once was.

    A loan to a club in Spain/Italy would help. He will develop his tactical and technical skills over there.

     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  5. RunTheTrap

    RunTheTrap Well-Known Member

    I strongly disagree with your first statement. He plays far too cautious to be direct. He doesn’t really take players like he should do, although he looked a lot better against Leicester. I feel like he doesn’t take enough risks and I feel like he doesn’t trust himself too. He hasn’t got that explosive first step, he’s quick but no Walcott and he’s not that strong for his size like Saka. Out of all of the Hale End boys he’s probably the most technical but he’s physically the worst. It’s very hard for him to create separation for the style he wants to play. There’s hope though but it requires patience from the fans. He needs serious gym work. I’m gonna guess he weighs about 63kg. Looks very small. We may have to wait until he grows into his adult body too. It’s similar to Zaha. He was a highly rated youngster but never got into his stride at United. Fast forward some years and he has broad shoulders, over 6ft and he’s probably one of the hardest wingers in the league to outmuscle.
     
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  6. krackpot

    krackpot Established Member

    he scored against Liverpool FFS.
     
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  7. truth_hurts

    truth_hurts Well-Known Member

    1 goal in a season. Think he's scored 2 league goals for us ever in probably around 40 appearances.

    Right. Now compare that to Saka or Martinelli.

    Lacazette scored against Liverpool as well. I get your logic actually - let's give him a new contract.
     
  8. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog In Big Trouble If He Speaks

    Nelson has all the tools, it's just about putting it all together and then getting his confidence up and getting him to play with consistency. At the moment he always seems to be playing within himself a bit, as a result he doesn't impact the game enough and will be out of the team for periods and it's a vicious cycle because he'll never get a consistent run of games unless he starts having more of an impact on games. It's make or break for him this year, you hope because he's decided to stay that he has the mentality to take advantage of an opportunity and that he's backing himself. Because with Pepe failing to show any consistency and Willian.....being Willian, he does have an opportunity to stake a claim for the RW position. I've got faith but he has to deliver soon.
     
    MutableEarth likes this.
  9. Elwood

    Elwood Active Member

    Surely he's playing tomorrow? I'll be looking forward to seeing him, think he was great the couple of times I saw him.
    I believe in him much more than I did when he first came here, weirdly.
     
  10. truth_hurts

    truth_hurts Well-Known Member

    Nelson has serious ability. His technique is great, but I worry about his mentality. He never looks as hungry as a Saka, Martinelli or Nketiah. Seems to play well within himself.
     
  11. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    Taking on players does not mean playing direct.

    Iniesta could dribble past a player and then make a backwards pass. And then receive a pass, and then taking on a player again. He could repeat this process 100 times before arriving to the opponent box. This is the indirectness Nelson should learn.

    In my second point, I have already pointed out that he is not taking on players often enough. The first point is criticising his decision making to always go for a forward option, whether it’s a pass or a movement with/without the ball.

    And also, by saying he is like walcott, I am not talking about the pace. I’m talking about how unskillful they look. If people are praising his technical ability, he should have look more like Hleb/Maximin on the ball. But seems he wants to keep things simple and plays like walcott.
    @RunTheTrap
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
  12. Batman

    Batman Bruce Wayne

    It's very difficult for me to follow our academy players, so someone more familiar with his trajectory, please help me out: Was he actually truly thought of as a talent on par or close to Sancho or was that just a bit of hype and wishful thinking from our supporters?
     
  13. Trilly

    Trilly The John Sauce Of Ilford Trusted

    He really was. They were neck and neck for most of their development than Sancho started to creep ahead towards the end of his time at city. It was still close at this point I believe.

    Sancho went to Dortmund and the rest is history.
     
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  14. Rasmi

    Rasmi Well-Known Member

    its hard to judge kids football, yes he was known as big talent in youth football. But plenty of kids who were seen as very talented never had impact in senior football and someone in their team who was seen as lesser talent had much bigger impact. Youth football is like college, its only for entry to university. Since you cant use previous grades from college in university and tell teachers some of your previous work should be taken into account. Once he got promoted, his youth days dont matter anymore. I think this season will define his Arsenal career. With Saka already way ahead of him and Martinelli coming back and who knows who comes in the summer. If he doesnt make impact this season he will be sold. Arteta as already willing to loan him out this season which is not a good sign imo
     
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  15. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    Head to head, Nelson had him beat on end product but that completely changed once Sancho got regular starts for Dortmund - something that Nelson has never had so far in his career. Sancho IMO was always a comparable technician, arguably better in that regard.

    I do wonder had Nelson had the same level of trust put in him that Sancho had if he would have been closer in stature.
    This is absolutely spot on. He can't afford to not take risks anymore, he has to start trying to impact game. The ability is there, just try things. Be Alexis to a degree. Alexis made things happen through sheer force of will, he was never afraid to go for the imaginative option. Nelson has the ability, he just has to do it with conviction.
     
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  16. Rasmi

    Rasmi Well-Known Member

    Sancho got his chance and took it. Nelson didn’t. You can’t blame this on managers. You can’t give young players chance after chance without producing hoping one day they will. Nelson will not be the first young player with great ability, but lack the mentality needed
     
  17. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    Except he [Nelson] hasn't been given "chance after chance", especially not in comparison to Sancho. I don't disagree that Nelson should have done better with the albeit scant opportunities he has been given - however, Sancho didn't start off brilliant for Dortmund either and he took at least half a season of regular football before he started to perform close to the level he's at now. He wouldn't have been able to build that momentum if he didn't have that regular football available to him - that's precisely why he left Man City in the first place. It's not a matter of blame, that's just football and not everybody's trajectory is the same, but I do think things would have been way different for Nelson if he had regular football and not gotten dropped every time he had a game or even a cameo. There are a lot of young players like that.

    Personally, I think for Nelson to fulfil his potential, he needs to play and I think leaving Arsenal will give him the best chance to do that. The important factor is that Dortmund can afford to give a talented youngster like Sancho a string of starts to build up that momentum. Nelson doesn't have the luxury to feel his way into things, he has to perform right away - like Saka or Martinelli.
     
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  18. Red London

    Red London Well-Known Member

    I think Nelson has struggled translating his confidence, dominance and respect in the youth team to senior football. Although on a totally different level, I think I have recently suffered the same thing.

    I play football with friends a lot, at Powerleague or in the park. Recently we made a 7 a side football team and started playing competitive football in a league system. Although I play with good people, the jump to more competitive football came at a shock to me (I havent played competitive football since being a kid as my secondary school did rugby :frustrated:and then I was too lazy/hungover at uni to wake up early for training/matches).

    I went from being amongst the best, and a very technically proficient creative player to being out of my depth the first few games. Suddenly people were pressing me harder, I had less space, the pitch was bigger, and I had less time to get into the game and less room for error. On the other hand a player who I have comfortably more raw talent than has risen his game, and even though he doesnt have the best touch or vision his confidence and drive in himself has made him one of our best players so far. For me its a learning curve and I am slowly getting into it and improving every game.

    I say this because I feel like this is a microcosm of the struggles Reiss has had. He is more talented than those around him but football isnt just based off of that, it is also how much you dare, and how much confidence you have in yourself. Reiss is probably worried about mistakes and he needs to constantly be told its fine until he has found his feet. Maybe that Hoffeinheim loan did something to him I'm not sure, but I have always been willing to be patient with him. He clearly has the raw talent, so we need to use as much time and give him as many chances as possible until he finds his feet. Otherwise we may have another Malen, Bennacer and Gnabry situation on our hands. And there really is nothing more infuriating than that.
     
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  19. MutableEarth

    MutableEarth Bloody awesome NSFW avatars Trusted

    He definitely came back different after Hoffenheim. He started like a house on fire - was something like 4 or 5 goals in his first 4 appearances. He was at full confidence - I was already envisioning him locking down our LW by the time he came back. The way his campaign petered out definitely affected him negatively and he has not gotten anywhere near back to his groove yet. Not taking people on, passing back at every opportunity, shrinking movement, wasn't even taking shots with the kind of verve he is capable of doing. He finished the season quite decently with a goal vs Liverpool and a strong cameo vs Watford. Even this season, his one major appearance was a very solid attacking performance against Leicester City. So there's some positive signs, although small and fleeting.

    There's something encouraging about the fact he wants to fight for his place and I do hope that Arteta eventually rewards his renewed focus. But given the risk averse nature of Arteta's management this season, I'm not terribly optimistic, which is an unusual feeling for me as I've always been positive - especially as a big believer in Nelson's ability. We just have to wait and see, starting with tomorrow's game.
     
    RunTheTrap and oh to be a goon like this.
  20. Red London

    Red London Well-Known Member

    Its a strange one it really is. I was so excited seeing how many goals he was scoring and was really starting to believe we have a serious player on our hands. But then the manager (I believe it was Nagelsmann at the time?) dropped him and he barely touched the first team. His goals per game/minute ratio was still amazing and I was excited to see him back, but since he returned he has seemed in his shell more. He was scoring some clever and confident goals for Hoffenheim, popping up in very advanced positions. I guess its a great example for the argument that loans don't always work out and can sometimes negatively effect the player. With Gnabry it seemed to cause him to become disillusioned with the club and not wanted, while Nelson seemed to take a big confidence hit.

    The Willian signing really ****ed him over. If Arteta was actually using Aubameyang up top, or a formation with a CAM (using Willian there) then there would be more space and opportunities for Nelson. But the way we are playing right now, I don't think any young attacking winger low on confidence would thrive. Especially on our right wing which is a barren wasteland. At the moment I expect and will be content with Nelson starting every EL game and every cup game. Anything less and I will be furious. I hope he continues to find his feet and starts getting more minutes in the PL, I would love a scenario where he is being deployed in an attacking team surrounded by clever creative players. But unfortunately we are far from that at the moment.
     

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