Rob Holding: I'm Sorry He Didn't Cost £55 Million

[Maybe]

His defending is OK-ish and I was OK with him for a while, but if we do continue to play from the back, Holding and Mari should never take part in any of our games. You can't play that way and have CB's and FB's terrified of getting on the ball

 

[truth_hurts]

Holding is no where near the travesty that Mustafi and Xhaka were in terms of performances and mistakes.

You may not like him but your hyperbole will be called out.

Mustafi for his fist 6 months reached a level that the balding t*** hasn't gotten anywhere close to. Xhaka has been decent whilst here, but he wasn't bought to be decent. A more apt comparison to knob Holding is El Nenny. We bought cheap and he's been an okay squad player.

I can't believe Arsenal fans are happy with Holding starting. It's sickening.

 

[Big Nate]

Holding is no where near the travesty that Mustafi and Xhaka were in terms of performances and mistakes.

You may not like him but your hyperbole will be called out.

Holding is clearly a solid player. Is he elite or a top player? No, but he is solid and certainly not a travesty.

The hyperbole is crazy and clearly isnt based on his performances.

 

[Mitch]

Our best CB last season.

 

[Impact]

With Saliba and Gabriel both being called up to the Olympics and White (if signed) likely to have a late holiday, I can't see us selling Holding. As I've always said, if he's fine with being 4/5th choice, then I'm happy to keep him but I do think if not this summer but next, we could probably realise a 10x profit on our initial £2m investment. For his flaws, all things considered, he has been a good signing.

 

[BobP]

People are way too harsh on him.

Like tbh we picked him up for peanuts and he does a decent enough job. The fact that he starts for us says more about the club than it does about him. It's not like he holds a gun to the club's head demanding that they play him.

 

[Brett]

His defending is OK-ish and I was OK with him for a while, but if we do continue to play from the back, Holding and Mari should never take part in any of our games. You can't play that way and have CB's and FB's terrified of getting on the ball

This is so unfair on our CB's it is more because we had the likes of Elneny/Cebellos whom will most likely pass it back. We need someone like Cesc/Santi to receive the ball under pressure and pass it forward else the whole build from the back does not work. Leno also does not help the cause but he was the least of our troubles.
We need someone to partner Thomas who can turn under pressure.

 

[Maybe]

This is so unfair on our CB's it is more because we had the likes of Elneny/Cebellos whom will most likely pass it back. We need someone like Cesc/Santi to receive the ball under pressure and pass it forward else the whole build from the back does not work. Leno also does not help the cause but he was the least of our troubles.
We need someone to partner Thomas who can turn under pressure.

It's unfair to ask a CB to play from the back when he doesn't have technical or physical attributes to play that game. I don't have a problem with Holding, I have a problem with forcing him to play the game that doesn't suit him. It's not only Holding, it's all of our defenders (except for Gabriel I'd say).

If Arteta wants to play this game, what's the reason for keeping Holding here? He doesn't fit in this style and we should look to bring defenders who are not afraid of the ball

 

[Barry]

Where does this thing come from that Holding is poor with the ball? Hes very good under pressure and he generally moves it forward centrally when there someone showing for it, he has deceptively quick feet which he shows when players press him. Sokratis was poor with the ball at this feet.

It's a weird myth. He looks fine and progressive on the ball when you watch matches and the stats back it up. Better passer than White last season for example. He is a bit slow though and I think his ceiling is a bit lower than some of our other CBs. Worth keeping for his consistency and experience imo. Hard to think of a better squad option really. Chambers too.

 

[Iceman10]

It's a weird myth. He looks fine and progressive on the ball when you watch matches and the stats back it up. Better passer than White last season for example. He is a bit slow though and I think his ceiling is a bit lower than some of our other CBs. Worth keeping for his consistency and experience imo. Hard to think of a better squad option really. Chambers too.

It's all manageable if Saliba happily goes on loan to a PL club next season. Assuming Saliba does well, when he returns for 2022/23 Holding would then be 5th choice CB at best, but most of Top 6 / Big 6 PL clubs have 5 CB's, it's not a problem of excess quantity wise, but I would consider locking down Chambers as a RB specialist if keeping all three of Saliba, Holding, Chambers, while buying Ben White (or alternative).

I agree that squaddies have value, esp. players happy enough being squaddies, and that can be the case for both Holding and Mari.

I would say this though. When I was considering RCB addition prior to this summer window, it did seem logical to do that with a Holding exit. Now I am torn, partly because of the unknown of the Arteta-Saliba situation, but I do think it is in the balance, say, if a club like Newcastle came in with a 20m+ offer for Holding.

 

[Barry]

Our best CB last season.

Actually shows that numbers wise they all had a pretty decent season, even Mari who has his strengths as well but looks the weakest overall.

There's a few issues getting masked by our overall defensive numbers though. Whilst it's true that over the season we conceded relatively few goals, we also gave goals quite cheaply in matches and often at decisive times. Arteta has largely made us competitive against the top teams (barring maybe Liverpool/City) but we lack consistency and struggled to close out matches with both goals or clean sheets.

Arsenal were joint 4th for clean sheets in the PL last season, but joint with 6 other teams on 12 so only in the top 10 in the league. Two other teams were close on 11 as well. Combined with half a season of struggling for goals at the other end and you've got a mid table finish.

I am in the camp that doesn't see CB as our main issue given the quality we had coming through (a lot of which seems to have been sold off cheaply now). However if the defensive unit can improve marginally, whilst our attack also sustains or improves on last seasons second half finish - then we will be in a good place next year. I'm not convinced this will happen, but the margins are quite fine and there are reasons for optimism.

 

[dka1]

It's a weird myth. He looks fine and progressive on the ball when you watch matches and the stats back it up. Better passer than White last season for example. He is a bit slow though and I think his ceiling is a bit lower than some of our other CBs. Worth keeping for his consistency and experience imo. Hard to think of a better squad option really. Chambers too.

Well weirdly enough Holding's stats compare really well to White, surprisingly so, I went in with the hypothesis that maybe Holding would have the better pass % per 90 but White would be stronger with long passes, but it's not the case.

Using FBref here are some figures per 90 from the 20/21 season:

Rob Holding: Overall pass % - 89.3, Short/Medium/Long pass % - 95.4/93.7/75.4
Ben White: Overall pass % - 83.2, Short/Medium/Long pass % - 90.2/89.3/64.3

However here's what might be grabbing Arteta's eye regarding White:

Rob Holding: Passes made under pressure/Passes that travel more than 40 yards/Crosses - 126/60/3
Ben White: Passes made under pressure/Passes that travel more than 40 yards/Crosses - 157/43/19

Edit: I actually made a mistake sorry, I'm getting familiar with FBref.

For the stats just above (Passes made under pressure/Passes that travel more than 40 yards/Crosses) are all for the entire season which is not a great comparison. Here are the same stats per 90:

Rob Holding: Passes made under pressure/Passes that travel more than 40 yards/Crosses - 4.44/2.11/0.11
Ben White: Passes made under pressure/Passes that travel more than 40 yards/Crosses - 4.42/1.21/0.54

So actually per 90 Rob Holding has more passes made under pressure, more passes that travel more than 40 yards, but White still slaps him in terms of crosses.

Again in terms of short, medium and long pass % (per 90); Holding wins in all three.

Interesting, perhaps it shows that stats aren't the be-all and end-all, or maybe Holding is actually quite decent lol.

Edit: Shows the state of football that I didn't even include the defensive stats, but obviously I'm more addressing the discussion about Holding's suitability to playing a passing game.

 

[Barry]

Well weirdly enough Holding's stats compare really well to White, surprisingly so, I went in with the hypothesis that maybe Holding would have the better pass % per 90 but White would be stronger with long passes, but it's not the case.

Using FBref here are some figures per 90 from the 20/21 season:

Rob Holding: Overall pass % - 89.3, Short/Medium/Long pass % - 95.4/93.7/75.4
Ben White: Overall pass % - 83.2, Short/Medium/Long pass % - 90.2/89.3/64.3

However here's what might be grabbing Arteta's eye regarding White:

Rob Holding: Passes made under pressure/Passes that travel more than 40 yards/Crosses - 126/60/3
Ben White: Passes made under pressure/Passes that travel more than 40 yards/Crosses - 157/43/19

So I guess White makes more passes under pressure and more crosses which maybe Arteta would favour (especially that he makes more passes under pressure).

But in terms of short, medium and long pass %; Holding wins in all three.

Interesting, perhaps it shows that stats aren't the be-all and end-all, or maybe Holding is actually quite decent lol.

Edit: Shows the state of football that I didn't even include the defensive stats, but obviously I'm more addressing the discussion about Holding's suitability to playing a passing game.

That's really interesting yeah. Holding's defensive numbers are very decent as well for last season. He consistently comes out around the 70th percentile for most areas which is great considering his PL experience as well. I don't think it would be crazy for Arsenal to sell him if a good offer came in, but Mari would be the one that I'd ship out first.

19 crosses for a CB seems like a massive number and like you said maybe shows how White is viewed as a weapon both offensively and defensively. Hopefully if we sign him he has enough consistency and quality to maintain or improve our defense as well as our attack though. Also, I want a CB who is more of a set piece threat which I think we lack at the moment. Gabriel looks like he might have this in his locker as he settles in the league perhaps.

 

[Brett]

It's unfair to ask a CB to play from the back when he doesn't have technical or physical attributes to play that game. I don't have a problem with Holding, I have a problem with forcing him to play the game that doesn't suit him. It's not only Holding, it's all of our defenders (except for Gabriel I'd say).

If Arteta wants to play this game, what's the reason for keeping Holding here? He doesn't fit in this style and we should look to bring defenders who are not afraid of the ball

My point is you bring the best ball playing defender(Dias) to this team with the midfield we have got they will struggle. Holding is good enough for a top 4 team maybe not a title winning side. We need to get back to top four before we go for world class players. Holding will do for the next 3 to 4 years on top of it he is homegrown and is by the looks of it a decent leader. I don't believe the crap which Arteta is spewing about winning the champions league and league in 3 years.

 

[truth_hurts]

Any stats about Sterling out jumping him and scoring a header? This piece of **** Holding is symbolic of the demise of our club. He was hours from joining Newcastle last summer, now Ricky Martin sees him as a leader. Hopefully Arteta won't be here much longer and we can start acting I've a big club again.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

He's alright but uno I'd rather he didn't step onto a pitch wearing an Arsenal shirt, yagedme?

 

[Makingtrax]

Actually shows that numbers wise they all had a pretty decent season, even Mari who has his strengths as well but looks the weakest overall.

There's a few issues getting masked by our overall defensive numbers though. Whilst it's true that over the season we conceded relatively few goals, we also gave goals quite cheaply in matches and often at decisive times. Arteta has largely made us competitive against the top teams (barring maybe Liverpool/City) but we lack consistency and struggled to close out matches with both goals or clean sheets.

Arsenal were joint 4th for clean sheets in the PL last season, but joint with 6 other teams on 12 so only in the top 10 in the league. Two other teams were close on 11 as well. Combined with half a season of struggling for goals at the other end and you've got a mid table finish.

I am in the camp that doesn't see CB as our main issue given the quality we had coming through (a lot of which seems to have been sold off cheaply now). However if the defensive unit can improve marginally, whilst our attack also sustains or improves on last seasons second half finish - then we will be in a good place next year. I'm not convinced this will happen, but the margins are quite fine and there are reasons for optimism.

Good analysis, we weren't in the top 4 for 'xG against' either. Our defence was not brilliant or even solid and compares badly to the 15/16 season with Mettersaker and Kos, where we had the most clean sheets, the best 'xG against' and the second least goals against.

 

[AberGooner]

I like Rob. He's never going to be the best CB ever and he shouldn't be starting for us but if White does come in it shouldn't be Holding we're rushing to sell. Mari should be the first out the door, Holding is a far more reliable back up than him.

 

[Makingtrax]

I like Rob. He's never going to be the best CB ever and he shouldn't be starting for us but if White does come in it shouldn't be Holding we're rushing to sell. Mari should be the first out the door, Holding is a far more reliable back up than him.

Can you see that happening, Arteta’s only just bought Mari and Cedric?

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

Any stats about Sterling out jumping him and scoring a header? This piece of **** Holding is symbolic of the demise of our club. He was hours from joining Newcastle last summer, now Ricky Martin sees him as a leader. Hopefully Arteta won't be here much longer and we can start acting I've a big club again.

Im just waiting for you to do up a chart with 'times out jumped by Sterling to score a goal' for all comparisons on all players and possibly managers