• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

✍️ OFFICIAL Rob Holding (Out)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Malky

Established Member
We really should give him a chance on loan, he looked like a top CB in the making this time last season.
Maybe we're lining up a move for another young English CB and have decided to sell both of Chambers and Holding.
 

NieThePiet

Loves Overhyping Our Rivals
Why sell Holding then kos and mert will be on their way out in the next 2 seasons. We need HG players also, I rate Rob everyone jumps on his back because he makes mistakes. He is very young for a cb and needs time!!

I'm not talking about a sell. I would like a loan too. I think a season on loan in a defensive team would be very good for him. Another season a Nr.4 makes no sense for him, he needs to play in this young age.

I don't know how the plans are at the moment:
Merte -> of course, he will retire.
Koscielny -> how is his injury? can we plan with him as CB. 1 or 2?
Mustafi -> sometimes he has good games, then he has three afwul games again. think he is not good again.
Chambers -> i would keep him as Back-Up and with the injuries/age of Kos, he can very useful
Holding -> loan?
Mavropanos, Sheaf, Bielik -> ??
 

TromsoGooner

Obsessed With Looking for Eric
For next season I`d loan both Holding and Mavropanos. Per will retire. A new CB is needed so that leaves us with Kos, Mustafi and the new signing. Three should be enough if we plan to play with four at the back. If we stick with three at the back we should keep Chambers.
 

StefanB

Active Member
I'm getting so tired of people not having some ****ing faith. The kid is 22. Central defenders very rarely start playing their best until mid 20's or later.

I agree he's not a starter yet (neither him nor Chambers), but as long as he's not demanding a starting position what the hell is the problem with keeping him in the squad? He's a big talent and he's young. Plus he seems to be pleased with being at the club.
 

Impact

Established Member
No issues with selling Holding. Good young player but if Wenger thinks we can do better, I trust his view. Looks we are interested in a top CB to replace Mertesacker and another young CB. Players will have to move on.

RCB - New established defender/Mustafi
LCB - Koscielny/new upcoming defender

We also have Sheaf, Mavropanos and Bielik in reserve. Competition is tough.
 

Fouz

Active Member
I'm getting so tired of people not having some ****ing faith. The kid is 22. Central defenders very rarely start playing their best until mid 20's or later.

I agree he's not a starter yet (neither him nor Chambers), but as long as he's not demanding a starting position what the hell is the problem with keeping him in the squad? He's a big talent and he's young. Plus he seems to be pleased with being at the club.

I actually want him to go on loan cause I rate him. if we keep him as 4th choice next season he won't develop the way he could have. it was a mistake imo not letting him go on loan this season.
 

CurryFlavoured

Established Member
He was promising last season but he's had a few nightmares lately. It would be premature to let him go but I don't think that we will, he's shown enough to have an extended chance.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
He was promising last season but he's had a few nightmares lately. It would be premature to let him go but I don't think that we will, he's shown enough to have an extended chance.

Same can be set for all of your defenders, but Holding at least has the excuse of lacking experience and thus the possibility of improving.

Seems very odd to me that Arsenal would sell Holding when Kos is on his way out physically, Mustafi looks lost and Mertesacker is a non-factor. It's not like he's a massive burden with his wages or anything like that.
 

pacstud

Well-Known Member
Same can be set for all of your defenders, but Holding at least has the excuse of lacking experience and thus the possibility of improving.

Seems very odd to me that Arsenal would sell Holding when Kos is on his way out physically, Mustafi looks lost and Mertesacker is a non-factor. It's not like he's a massive burden with his wages or anything like that.
Bolded is false.

Continue otherwise.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
You're right, this is a man in complete control:

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/80921/Show/Shkodran-Mustafi

Average rating of 7.45; 4.5 aerial duals, 2.4 tackles, 2.1 interceptions, 6.2 clearances & 86% pass accuracy.

He's made mistakes obviously and he needs to improve in a few areas no doubt, but you don't get a rating of 7.45 by being a terrible defender.

Where on earth people get the idea he should be sold I have no idea. Anyway, Holding needs a loan either at a small Pl club or in the Bundesliga.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/80921/Show/Shkodran-Mustafi

Average rating of 7.45; 4.5 aerial duals, 2.4 tackles, 2.1 interceptions, 6.2 clearances & 86% pass accuracy.

He's made mistakes obviously and he needs to improve in a few areas no doubt, but you don't get a rating of 7.45 by being a terrible defender.

Where on earth people get the idea he should be sold I have no idea. Anyway, Holding needs a loan either at a small Pl club or in the Bundesliga.

Those stats mean basically nothing, and the Whoscored rankings are quite laughable. That is, unless you believe the two best CBs in the league are Mustafi and Tarkowski. All it means is that he's the more aggressive defender and accumulates more interceptions and tackles.

You could argue that he gets involved in those cockups because he's also the one doing the most work at the back, and I'd probably tend to agree. I'm not arguing that he's worse than his partner(s), just that he looks positionally lost quite often.

Alas, I'm in the camp of blaming the manager for your defensive shortcomings and not the players. Your defensive shape and structure can be described as chaotic, to say the least. The point of my post wasn't to rag on Mustafi though, but rather defend Holding by pointing out how all over the place your defenders higher up in the hierarchy have been this season. It'd be weird to single out a prospect and get rid when you could easily argue that he's barely been worse than your starters.
 

pacstud

Well-Known Member
Those stats mean basically nothing, and the Whoscored rankings are quite laughable. That is, unless you believe the two best CBs in the league are Mustafi and Tarkowski. All it means is that he's the more aggressive defender and accumulates more interceptions and tackles.

You could argue that he gets involved in those cockups because he's also the one doing the most work at the back, and I'd probably tend to agree. I'm not arguing that he's worse than his partner(s), just that he looks positionally lost quite often.

Alas, I'm in the camp of blaming the manager for your defensive shortcomings and not the players. Your defensive shape and structure can be described as chaotic, to say the least. The point of my post wasn't to rag on Mustafi though, but rather defend Holding by pointing out how all over the place your defenders higher up in the hierarchy have been this season. It'd be weird to single out a prospect and get rid when you could easily argue that he's barely been worse than your starters.
I'd argue you've only seen scraps. Holding is not ready. Will hopefully be soon, but not now.

Mustafi is. Best yet, he'll get better, still young. His overall body of work has steadily improved as he's worked into the squad and the league and there's no reason to suspect it won't continue.

I don't understand how you can bash rating systems (I don't care for them either), but then use a single youtube clip as evidence?
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
Those stats mean basically nothing, and the Whoscored rankings are quite laughable. That is, unless you believe the two best CBs in the league are Mustafi and Tarkowski. All it means is that he's the more aggressive defender and accumulates more interceptions and tackles.

You could argue that he gets involved in those cockups because he's also the one doing the most work at the back, and I'd probably tend to agree. I'm not arguing that he's worse than his partner(s), just that he looks positionally lost quite often.

Alas, I'm in the camp of blaming the manager for your defensive shortcomings and not the players. Your defensive shape and structure can be described as chaotic, to say the least. The point of my post wasn't to rag on Mustafi though, but rather defend Holding by pointing out how all over the place your defenders higher up in the hierarchy have been this season. It'd be weird to single out a prospect and get rid when you could easily argue that he's barely been worse than your starters.

I don't think the ratings system is an exact science, all i'm saying is that if he was in fact a bad defender then he wouldn't have such a high score. The stats don't mean 'basically nothing', they obviously indicate how much defensive work he is doing.

But yes of course I agree that it's the system that is the problem. We've had matches where Mustafi/Holding/Chambers have looked completely lost and then others where they've looked quite assured.

Of the CBs who've been criticised this season I think only Chambers might actually lack what it takes to succeed here, purely because it seems he lacks the necessary aggression to impose himself on the opposition.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts+

Top Bottom