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Ronaldo caught up in rape allegation

Tosker

Does Not Hate Foreigners
the s
Well tough ****... Those numbers are trivial now. The reverse was trivial before. We live in an age of overcorrection...

When you try to bring up such a statistic in defence of your point, it makes it very sour and makes you seem unaware of the overall picture.

In a case of 1million allegations, 90% are proven right (900k cases), but hey let's focus on the 10% here .
it's the same story with regards to domestic abuse - overwhelmingly it's a male on female crime, but there are cases where women abuse men, and every time there is an attempt to discuss the subject men will take the opportunity to remind us all of these cases, to the extent of hijacking the discussion - I have heard it time and again on radio phone-ins in particular, and get the sad feeling that there are a fair few men out there who distrust - even hate - all women

these are emotive subjects, and our feelings often are skewed by personal experience, but the least we all ought to do is recognize this, and attempt to stay objective
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Well tough ****... Those numbers are trivial now. The reverse was trivial before. We live in an age of overcorrection...

When you try to bring up such a statistic in defence of your point, it makes it very sour and makes you seem unaware of the overall picture.

In a case of 1million allegations, 90% are proven right (900k cases), but hey let's focus on the 10% here .
I think he’s saying that rather than focus on the 10% we need to accept that there is a 10% before rushing to point fingers.
 

krackpot

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Not too sure about that depending on what documents are admissible. That questionnaire for example I doubt ever sees the light of day in court if it was between Ronaldo & his legal council then leaked.

Its very hard to prove these he said / she said beyond doubt but see more of the civil damages cases being successful after a not guilty verdicts.
yeah, hard to prove it as rape too, because some laws require you to show physical struggle. The lawyers will just argue about the definition, admissibility and fine print.

It's quite damning that they put an investigator on her for a month, and then wanted to change him when he could not uncover anything serious.

This is either an admission of guilt, or some other level preparation from Ronaldo's team.
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
Trusted ⭐

Country: Wales
yeah, hard to prove it as rape too, because some laws require you to show physical struggle. The lawyers will just argue about the definition, admissibility and fine print.

It's quite damning that they put an investigator on her for a month, and then wanted to change him when he could not uncover anything serious.

This is either an admission of guilt, or some other level preparation from Ronaldo's team.

Nevada law is based solely round the issue of saying no. Saying no there removes consent.
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
I've been very disturbed to see some of the reactions to this from friends on social media. I don't know what happened here. I can't pretend to know what happened here, and because of that I can't dismiss what are very serious allegations. I've seen so many people just brush it off because they happen to like CR7 as a footballer and just be so casual about what is such a heinous allegation. Even adhering to the idea that people are innocent until proven guilty I just think it's awful to write someone off as a lying b*tch because you like the way someone plays football. It's just so gross and we as men have got a real problem in terms of our mentality on such matters. Of course, nobody wants to be falsely accused of anything and people who do make false allegations are also awful but the fact is that women do live in very real fear of predatory behavior and all too often that fear is realized and so to discount anyone before all of the facts come out is just awful, especially because the accused can kick a ball ffs.
 

El Granit-Coq

Established Member
@Batman
The sad reality is that siding with the alleged oppressor is not something new. The idea that the victim is to blame for whatever reason has been prevalent for centuries.

Whatever dirt anyone finds from a rape victim should always be secondary to the case. Never should it be added as a talking point. The victim is promiscuous? So, doesn't give an excuse to rape. The victim was goading you on and pulled consent when you got going? Yeah no, keep it where it is.

Predetory behaviour can be unlearned. It's just that a lot of us men are unwilling to budge on this cushion. The world revolves such that it should benefit men...

I'm very impressed with what the movement has brought upon, in some African countries, NGOs have targeted young men to teach them that no means no (surprisingly worked well...IKR?), in Tanzania there has been a tremendous effort to uplift women and make them understand that their voice and consent is not subservient to their husbands or opposite sex.

We have a long way to go as this isn't going to get too far (in terms of Ronaldo) but I hope it atleast starts some form of reform in athletes. It's hard to resist that power trip especially for such people, but now that there is a good chance of consequences, maybe people won't feel the need to act on their entitlement.
 

El Granit-Coq

Established Member
There is a difference between the US and Tanzania.

In the UK our defense minister recently resigned because he touched a female journalists knee a decade ago and she brought it forward recently and said.it made her uncomfortable.

You're telling me that there is a difference between two countries with vastly different demographics and resources!?!? You missed the picture entirely.

That is an extreme isolated instance... It had been acknowledged that we are overcorrecting, that is how history and progress works.

It's unfortunate now that people have lost their jobs because of false allegations or very extreme cases of friendly touching taken badly. But it's been unfortunate and will continue to be unfortunate for the significantly higher number of women who will have to live by the consequences of rape... be it death, social degradation,...

I acknowledge the few innocents and genuinely wish those who made false accusations would be held accountable, nevertheless, for now, I am more interested in the many more cases unreported and genuinely hope that the progress is not halted.

The issue of concent and that in the anglosphere at the moment is becoming a very heated topic. The goalposts are constantly being moved to now that nothing but overly enthusiastic given and permission asked concent is now seen as real concent amongst the whole #metoo movement. There was even the yes means no debacle. The thing that happened with that Indian American comedian is a good example of retracting concent after the act.

Things don't remain compartamentalized in mainstream culture. This isn't vulnerable women vs rich men. It effects the inter sexual dynamics society wide.

There was no goalpost to be moved. No has always meant No in this instance. If at any point people are having consentual sex and one of the parties says No to an act or refuses to continue due to whatever their reason, it is not okay because to continue on because "you're almost there".

No matter how much someone (X) touches another (y), it never justifies any further unwanted touching from y to x nor is x obligated to fulfil some form of sexual contract.

The cases where someone clearly says Yes, but secretly they want to frame someone, they should be punished for that. We will get to deal with those who made false accusations just as we have dealt with those who had prior incidents hidden. We will find an equilibrium.

EVEN IF it was a case of her verbally being coy and saying she doesn't want it despite physically making herself available as he says ( as lets be honest we know this happens ) , you can't make that look any other way since a rape claim was put forward. The anal penetration thing is pretty strong tbh .I really wonder what is going to happen.

One person's (X) perception of another (Y) is not universal to all other members of the alphabet. Making yourself physically available is one way of saying they were asking for it (you see how things can be interpreted differently?). Once again, if she said No at any point... It really does not mean much else. Consent can be taken away at any time, even during sex.

It's really not hard to simply ask if the other party is ready/what they would like you to do before sex.
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
@Batman
The sad reality is that siding with the alleged oppressor is not something new. The idea that the victim is to blame for whatever reason has been prevalent for centuries.

Whatever dirt anyone finds from a rape victim should always be secondary to the case. Never should it be added as a talking point. The victim is promiscuous? So, doesn't give an excuse to rape. The victim was goading you on and pulled consent when you got going? Yeah no, keep it where it is.

Predetory behaviour can be unlearned. It's just that a lot of us men are unwilling to budge on this cushion. The world revolves such that it should benefit men...

I'm very impressed with what the movement has brought upon, in some African countries, NGOs have targeted young men to teach them that no means no (surprisingly worked well...IKR?), in Tanzania there has been a tremendous effort to uplift women and make them understand that their voice and consent is not subservient to their husbands or opposite sex.

We have a long way to go as this isn't going to get too far (in terms of Ronaldo) but I hope it atleast starts some form of reform in athletes. It's hard to resist that power trip especially for such people, but now that there is a good chance of consequences, maybe people won't feel the need to act on their entitlement.
Agreed. I'm much more respectful and conscious of my behavior at 30 than I was at 20. We absolutely can learn to be better and treat people better and it's just heartbreaking that so many refuse to do so and want to play the victim rather than empathize with the actual victims.
 

El Granit-Coq

Established Member
Agreed. I'm much more respectful and conscious of my behavior at 30 than I was at 20. We absolutely can learn to be better and treat people better and it's just heartbreaking that so many refuse to do so and want to play the victim rather than empathize with the actual victims.
No one is born knowing what to do, we all learn these behaviours and can all unlearn them. It takes a massive effort to check not only yourself but your fellow men when such things are a topic.

Change will always be opposed. Thankfully we love in an age where information can be shared at an alarming rate. In time the movement should reach enough people that they can speak out against this.
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
.
No one is born knowing what to do, we all learn these behaviours and can all unlearn them. It takes a massive effort to check not only yourself but your fellow men when such things are a topic.

Change will always be opposed. Thankfully we love in an age where information can be shared at an alarming rate. In time the movement should reach enough people that they can speak out against this.
Yes, we can only hope the tide is turning as bleak as things can look at times.
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
With misogynists and abusers like El Douche and potentially Bolsonaro in Brazil, in power, (not to mention the likes of Duterte), things may look bleak indeed. Movements like #Metoo and others give hope though and need our support in those crazy times.
It's a right wing thing all over the damn world right now bro....
 

El Granit-Coq

Established Member
This is not an issue of leftism or rightism. Regardless of who is in power, the right mentality in this day and age will shine through. It's not a worry about suppressing one side, if majority of men thought morally (in terms of sex) whatever political side they stand on would not matter.

#metoo is not PC culture. It's not trying to demonize men nor is it advocating for a non physical environment. PC culture has it wrong as it tries to censor rather than educate, what is needed is to most of all educate.
 
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L3T5 PL4Y

Flair Accuser
I have heard it time and again on radio phone-ins in particular, and get the sad feeling that there are a fair few men out there who distrust - even hate - all women

these are emotive subjects, and our feelings often are skewed by personal experience, but the least we all ought to do is recognize this, and attempt to stay objective
This is true and I admit I have trouble trusting women. There's also sometimes hatred arising from personal experiences and observation of women kind as well as insecurity, frustration, ego and self esteem issues. I guess over sexualized society, media, porn, toxic masculinity/feminism don't help.

Fortunately, I've grown up as the only man in the household and have positive experiences to go with the negative as well in places as the only guy so you grow to understand a bit, keep things respectful and draw a certain line.

Funny thing is, just a day or two before this Ronaldo rape thing came up, I was having an argument with a senior friend trying to preach "love" and its value to me. I was putting forward Ronaldo as an example of how could live and succeed on self love alone- that's frustration with family(women), with the girl I love(unrequited/one sided) talking and my own failures talking. Then this came out and that sort of way isn't the answer.
 

L3T5 PL4Y

Flair Accuser
One thing is that communication is something we need to teach and encourage in institutions and households everywhere. Opening up and being able to communicate freely and properly solves a lot of problems.
 

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