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Ryan Bertrand

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HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Correct.

Even if the kid played well in KT's injury absence you reckon he'd be okay playing deputy to KT for the next decade? Nope. He'd be off looking for regular first team football in 2 years anyway.

Its a fine balance with a backup player. And keeping someone happy is much easier when they're getting to Bertrand's age.

Imagine the numb nuts on here after seeing what happened with Willock/AMN/Saliba this season when Doig has a run of games with a KT injury then gets dropped ffs.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
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I assume you wanted Monreal gone by the time he hit your retirement home age range of 30-32.

wtf? Monreal left here when he was 33, which was the correct time for him to go. I wouldn't have given him a new contract at 32.

Listen if you think Bertrand is fine then cool, just don't pretend like there aren't numerous warning signs about it being a bad deal.
 

TornadoTed

Established Member
Tierney has played the 6th highest amount of minutes of any outfield player season, he will get very close to 3000 minutes if he plays the final two games which is respectable.

Sure he has had a few niggles but the idea that he is some fragile little flower who is constantly injured is a bit of a myth in my opinion.
 

AberGooner

Established Member
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Player:Gabriel
Correct.

Even if the kid played well in KT's injury absence you reckon he'd be okay playing deputy to KT for the next decade? Nope. He'd be off looking for regular first team football in 2 years anyway.
Clichy did a decent job as an unknown young backup for Cole. Obviously he never turned into Cole but we still got many years out of him.

Clyne was playing well for Liverpool, got a bad injury and the rest is history with TAA. Robertson as well was bought as Moreno's backup and we've seen what's happened there.

If Tierney got injured and a young backup did well it would be up to him to fight for his place. I'd like to think anyone would have to earn it back. Competition is healthy. 3 years down the line you then have the opportunity to make a decision and make a profit on either one of them.
 

Ciscoo

Active Member
Not sure the comparisons to Willian and Lichtsteiner are fair. He's played a good 150-200 games fewer than them, add in another hundred if you include internationals.

He's had a poor six months like many others, but he's been fine for years before that. There's every chance he could give us two good years as backup. I just don't trust the club to judge whether his legs have gone.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
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Country: England

Player:Rice
Clichy did a decent job as an unknown young backup for Cole. Obviously he never turned into Cole but we still got many years out of him.

Clyne was playing well for Liverpool, got a bad injury and the rest is history with TAA. Robertson as well was bought as Moreno's backup and we've seen what's happened there.

If Tierney got injured and a young backup did well it would be up to him to fight for his place. I'd like to think anyone would have to earn it back. Competition is healthy. 3 years down the line you then have the opportunity to make a decision and make a profit on either one of them.

I'm not against competition. Personally I just see the LB spot as the area we least need to be looking to plan for long term. I can see Tierney starting there for the better part of a decade.

My preference is to have a more experienced player who you know what you're going to get from and who can perform up to standard from the get go to deputise for KT. A kid as back up is much more of a risk in my view.
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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Yeah but people like you are acting as if he's going to be our starting left back. And conveniently forgetting that Tierney is 23 years old. I'd rather signed an experienced defender than an 18 year old who you have no idea about.

Honestly it's completely nonsensical. Stop acting as if he's going to be our only signing and our starting left back. Blows my mind how stupid people are on here sometimes.

It's hilarious because if we were signing 18 year old from Tanzmania I'm sure you'd be all over it saying how the times have changed and what a great signing it is! When you dont have a ****ing clue how any kid is from other leagues are going to adapt here.
You happy with how Cedric has turned out though? Came from Southampton and is two years younger than Bertrand. I think Bertrand makes sense on a short term deal, but wasn't it reported that he left Soton because they only offered a shorter deal than he wanted. So watch us step in and give a 30+ player a 3+ years contract. I can't really place it, but it just feels like it happened before...

Thing is players physique becomes a bit unpredictable after 30, you could end up with a Drogba, Zlatan, or Ronaldo but just as likely see the complete fall off of Willian from one season to another. Auba is another one - he's so reliant on his speed and I've felt that this season his age is starting to catch up...
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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Which is fine. You can sell off that kid for a healthy profit. We can’t keep relying on Daddy Kroenke to give us money.
This exactly. Choosing between a young player on lower wages that leaves for a profit in 2 years or an old one who's going to be on big wages for the role he'll play and retires in 2 years is an extremely easy choice.
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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All of this of course depends on if Kolasinac leaves or not. We could rely on him as backup for another year just as well as giving Bertrand a multi year contract and then potentially integrate Lopez into the senior team. That could address our needs short and long term alike in a self sufficient way, while also positioning us as a club that develops and gives youth real chances to prove themselves
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
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Also, i'm no expert, but it doesn't look like he's been playing at all well recently. His stats are very meh.

He's already in decline. This is Lichsteiner all over again.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
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He's already in decline. This is Lichsteiner all over again.
Yup. You ca always try and justify a signing. Willian, Cedric, Luiz. Then there comes a time when you have to think why we even have to justify a signing. Rather than just be excited. If we signed Bissouma or Buendia or Edouard tomorrow. We wouldn't be sitting here justifying why we signed them. We would be excited and project expectations on them. Yet with Bertrand, what are we hoping? That he wont get worse even though he already has? How are we operating like this. Signing Bertrand is ruthless? It's not. Its lazy.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
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Yup. You ca always try and justify a signing. Willian, Cedric, Luiz. Then there comes a time when you have to think why we even have to justify a signing. Rather than just be excited. If we signed Bissouma or Buendia or Edouard tomorrow. We wouldn't be sitting here justifying why we signed them. We would be excited and project expectations on them. Yet with Bertrand, what are we hoping? That he wont get worse even though he already has? How are we operating like this. Signing Bertrand is ruthless? It's not. Its lazy.
Utterly lazy. There's at least 3 LBs in the Championship I can think of who I'd bring in instead and only one of them I can think of being expensive. We're not being smart.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
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Bertrand will be 32 when the season starts, it's actually embarassing how bad we are with squad planning and signings these days. It's almost as if we were just complaining about these OAPs like Lichsteiner but then we started actually offering them long term deals, like 2-3 years. It's poor as it is with lets say Cedric and Luiz who were clearly on a downward slope when we signed them, but this is getting crazy now.

We are signing players who are only still performing at the top level due to their willingness to get a last contract. Once we offer them it and that extra 10% commitment is gone, they fall off the edge of a cliff. It's a sackable offence signing him or any other 29+ year olds now. They effect the culture and vibe around the club and they are an empty bottomless put we throw our money into without any return. Some will say "but it's only short term, whats the big deal" and then do some stupid maths. Well it looks like the last 3 backup fullbacks we have signed are OAPs if we sign Betrand (Lichsteiner, Cedric and Bertrand). So by that logic if we continue doing this permanently because its "such a clever and astute idea", we will be forever paying our BACK UP full backs anywhere between 50-80k a week- this is more than the first choice full backs at something like 75% of PL sides. Its a gross mismanagement of this club. Not only because younger full backs will be on minimal wages (lets say 10-30k- which saves us up to 2.6m a year per fullback), we will also get a profit if we sign the right player. I don't see City, Chelsea, Leicester Liverpool, United or Sp**s doing this? Even Everton aren't buying these kind of idiots anymore. What are we doing??
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
Bertrand will be 32 when the season starts, it's actually embarassing how bad we are with squad planning and signings these days. It's almost as if we were just complaining about these OAPs like Lichsteiner but then we started actually offering them long term deals, like 2-3 years. It's poor as it is with lets say Cedric and Luiz who were clearly on a downward slope when we signed them, but this is getting crazy now.

We are signing players who are only still performing at the top level due to their willingness to get a last contract. Once we offer them it and that extra 10% commitment is gone, they fall off the edge of a cliff. It's a sackable offence signing him or any other 29+ year olds now. They effect the culture and vibe around the club and they are an empty bottomless put we throw our money into without any return. Some will say "but it's only short term, whats the big deal" and then do some stupid maths. Well it looks like the last 3 backup fullbacks we have signed are OAPs if we sign Betrand (Lichsteiner, Cedric and Bertrand). So by that logic if we continue doing this permanently because its "such a clever and astute idea", we will be forever paying our BACK UP full backs anywhere between 50-80k a week- this is more than the first choice full backs at something like 75% of PL sides. Its a gross mismanagement of this club. Not only because younger full backs will be on minimal wages (lets say 10-30k- which saves us up to 2.6m a year per fullback), we will also get a profit if we sign the right player. I don't see City, Chelsea, Leicester Liverpool, United or Sp**s doing this? Even Everton aren't buying these kind of idiots anymore. What are we doing??
Have to agree. If a player at 32 is rejecting the possibility of actually being a first team player and in the starting 11 of a PL side to sit on Arsenals bench because he's going to get a signing on fee a lot bigger than his current club or another club and is going to maybe double his wages that's another red flag.

From Arsenals point of view I can see why they would consider it. However it shows a lack of ambition from the player and performances will drop. Would I rather have a 20 year old from the academy or championship who's hungry to learn and improve with a few mistakes in him on 20k a week or a 32 year old who's past his best and has no ambition to carry on being a first team regular for the money.

Signing Bertrand is the easy thing. No effort required. No planning. Just opportunist and while again I understand with budgets restricted it could be an OK move, I would rather look elsewhere.

We seem to be stockpiling free signings or players who can't get their desired contracts elsewhere.
 

African Flair

Well-Known Member
This one is actually gonna go through right?! In itself you could say it makes some sense but it's so uninspiring. At the big picture, ****ing ridiculous that they never learn. Yes I gonna be excited!
 

tcahill

Well-Known Member
Our management is legitimately the stupidest in the league.

If you make a mistake, that's fine, learn from it and don't do it again (Lichtsteiner) Make a mistake twice is dumb, but again learn from it and it'll be forgiven (Willian).

Doing it a third time is beyond belief.

Only time these stop gap signings have looked ok are with Luiz, Sokratis and Cech, and even then all those are questionable.

They aren't even better deals financially. We give them inflated wages that mean we can't move them on with a fee or even move them at all. Paying 5 mill for baby Tierney who'd be determined and hungry, and if doesn't work out can still be moved on, is far smarter both on the pitch and financially.
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
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Country: England
Yet again another short term move. Another lazy, no imagination move.

I was listening to the Arsenal Vision podcast and whilst I don't always agree with their takes they are completely right about Bertrand.

"Don't do anything at back up left back and use whatever's in your team OR solve it the right way. Solving the problem the wrong way is never the right answer".

Profound words and Elliot went on to say that in almost every major statistical category that's measured for full backs he's in the bottom 50% (in the PL I assume).

Unbelievable and we want a guy like this? Apparently he's not a great progressive passer so why would we get him, it makes no sense in Arteta's system especially when so much of our build up depends on the wings.....Jesus wept.

Tim also made the point that we could've gotten him in January, so why postpone the move if we were just going to pick him up in the summer.

If we sign him WE ARE NOT LEARNING from the past, god help my soul if we sign this guy.
 
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