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Samuel Umtiti

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2Smokeyy

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Not true. Peak Umtiti is stronger than that list. His injuries have been what has let him down recently. On all statistical front (not to name leadership) he is a class above.

Is this the same Umtiti that I’ve been watching the past few years? Or is it the football manager version?

Wow Umtiti is seriously overrated on here. No way is he anywhere as good as the defenders I listed.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
Why does that matter if they play in Italy? It’s actually laughable that you’re basing it on 1 or 2 games when it should be based off of consistency. Koulibaly, De Ligt and Škriniar are all a class above Umtiti.

Put any of them in the Arsenal backline and we improve significantly.


Have you watched Serie A in the last few years? It's pretty dreadful in terms of quality. The whole reputation of Italian defenses and their defensive know-how are lazy stereotypes being applied from 2 decades ago. Italian defenses and are bang average from what I've seen recently apart from Juve. Even their CBs are all old and came through during a time when Italian defenses were good and overall, so was Serie A.

The attacking players are on average well below the quality of the other so called top tier leagues as well. The only player who's been a outright success in the PL who came from Serie A has been Salah. Can't think of too many other big transfers that went to Spain, Germany or England that were successful. I'm talking about this decade mostly.

Pogba, Jorginho, even Torreira were all pretty much meh. The latter 2 have spent only a year so they might improve. The ease with which the worst Arsenal squad in over 2 decades beat Milan and Napoli was eye opening for me.
 

2Smokeyy

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How many know De Ligt before Jan? Overrated

He’s overrated now he moved to Juventus, right? Arsenal fans are funny.

Also, De Ligt was known. Have a look back at Ajax in 2017 when they had a run to the Europa League final and played Utd in it. His talent was there for everyone to see.
 

2Smokeyy

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Have you watched Serie A in the last few years? It's pretty dreadful in terms of quality. The whole reputation of Italian defenses and their defensive know-how are lazy stereotypes being applied from 2 decades ago. Italian defenses and are bang average from what I've seen recently apart from Juve. Even their CBs are all old and came through during a time when Italian defenses were good and overall, so was Serie A.

The attacking players are on average well below the quality of the other so called top tier leagues as well. The only player who's been a outright success in the PL who came from Serie A has been Salah. Can't think of too many other big transfers that went to Spain, Germany or England that were successful. I'm talking about this decade mostly.

Pogba, Jorginho, even Torreira were all pretty much meh. The latter 2 have spent only a year so they might improve. The ease with which the worst Arsenal squad in over 2 decades beat Milan and Napoli was eye opening for me.

It’s interesting to see how far you’d want to go back? As those players you have listed are a few but just to name a few off the top of my head, the likes of Rudiger, Thiago Silva, Marquinhos, Alisson, Felipe Anderson prove your theory wrong.

I understand that the Serie A might not be pleasing on the eye for some but you can’t use that to suggest a player would come over here and fail. If it was that easy then the likes of Thierry Henry and Patrick Vieira wouldn’t have made it here.

I’m curious to know, do you rate Lacazette? If so, then his first season wasn’t great but did you write him off like you’re writing off Torreira already? He showed glimpses last season but of course he everyone knew he needed time to adapt to the PL.

Well, my point is put either one of Koulibaly and Škriniar in the Arsenal side and we improve.
 

Multipass

Active Member
The same umtiti who went home with a World Cup winners medal last year. For all their potential those on your list have yet to achieved anything.

Is this the same Umtiti that I’ve been watching the past few years? Or is it the football manager version?

Wow Umtiti is seriously overrated on here. No way is he anywhere as good as the defenders I listed.
 

SingmeasongSong

Right Sometimes
De Ligt overrated ? No.
De Ligt worldclass ? No either.

He's got a lot of potential and has shown topclass performances, but I've also seen bad games of him and that's exactly what's normal for a player of his age. But you have to perform constantly, in the best leagues, for a long time to be considered woldclass. De Ligt isn't there yet, but brings everything to the table to reach that level.

Umtiti, however, has done it all, is a senior player with huge experience and proven in a top league. He was worldclass.
Nevertheless, it's hard to make a call on him right now, he did not look like the player of old when he got back to after his injuries. But that doesn't mean a full pre-season cannot help with him getting back to full confidence and act like a reset button.

Only issue with Umtiti is that there are some question marks about his injuries, not much else to question about his abilities though.
 

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De Ligt overrated ? No.
De Ligt worldclass ? No either.
/QUOTE]

tenor.gif
 

2Smokeyy

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The same umtiti who went home with a World Cup winners medal last year. For all their potential those on your list have yet to achieved anything.

Don’t even bring that sh*te.

Trashstafi is a World Cup winner and that means what?

Kleberson won the won cup too, his football career was monumental wasn’t it?

Wes Brown and Silvestre won the CL, they were top draw defender weren’t they?

The list is endless.

I hate it when football fans use trophies to measure a players ability. Shocking stuff.
 

L3T5 PL4Y

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Don’t even bring that sh*te.

Trashstafi is a World Cup winner and that means what?

Kleberson won the won cup too, his football career was monumental wasn’t it?

Wes Brown and Silvestre won the CL, they were top draw defender weren’t they?

The list is endless.

I hate it when football fans use trophies to measure a players ability. Shocking stuff.
But he was a starter. And prior to injury he was heading towards world class levels.

That said I don't want a injury prone expensive signing on big salaries.
 

The_Playmaker

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Why does that matter if they play in Italy? It’s actually laughable that you’re basing it on 1 or 2 games when it should be based off of consistency. Koulibaly, De Ligt and Škriniar are all a class above Umtiti.

Put any of them in the Arsenal backline and we improve significantly.

Ofcourse they would improve us. What we have is below the standard of what we should have as a club.

The players you have mentioned have been involved in many European games and these players have not excelled. De Ligt is thr only exception and he isnt even world class. He has the potential to be, but he is nowhere near that yet.

If all of these defenders in Serie A were so called world class, Bayern, Atletico and Real Madrid would be rebuilding with them. Man United could have bought one of them instead of Maguire. They just aren't as good as you are making out.
 

2Smokeyy

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De Ligt overrated ? No.
De Ligt worldclass ? No either.

He's got a lot of potential and has shown topclass performances, but I've also seen bad games of him and that's exactly what's normal for a player of his age. But you have to perform constantly, in the best leagues, for a long time to be considered woldclass. De Ligt isn't there yet, but brings everything to the table to reach that level.

Umtiti, however, has done it all, is a senior player with huge experience and proven in a top league. He was worldclass.
Nevertheless, it's hard to make a call on him right now, he did not look like the player of old when he got back to after his injuries. But that doesn't mean a full pre-season cannot help with him getting back to full confidence and act like a reset button.

Only issue with Umtiti is that there are some question marks about his injuries, not much else to question about his abilities though.

Serious question - did you watch Umtiti last season?

Regarding his injuries, we’ve been here before with many players, notably Rosicky and Diaby and I’d rather we stay away from a player that has a dreadful injury record. There’s a reason why Barcelona invested in Lenglet and Todibo plus were seriously interested in De Ligt during the summer.

I know a lot of Barca fans who would be happy if someone takes him since he’s injury prone and his confidence looks gone which isn’t a good thing for defenders as that easily leads to errors which is the last thing we need.

We’re becoming a rehab for players who are on the decline and confidence are shot, we’ve already failed with Mkhitaryan and Denis Suarez.
 

SingmeasongSong

Right Sometimes
Serious question - did you watch Umtiti last season?

Regarding his injuries, we’ve been here before with many players, notably Rosicky and Diaby and I’d rather we stay away from a player that has a dreadful injury record. There’s a reason why Barcelona invested in Lenglet and Todibo plus were seriously interested in De Ligt during the summer.

I know a lot of Barca fans who would be happy if someone takes him since he’s injury prone and his confidence looks gone which isn’t a good thing for defenders as that easily leads to errors which is the last thing we need.

We’re becoming a rehab for players who are on the decline and confidence are shot, we’ve already failed with Mkhitaryan and Denis Suarez.

I didn't say I was high about him, did I ?
Was merely the point about De Ligt, as talented as he is, he does not yet deserve to be called worldclass. That predicate should really only go to players that have performed over a prolonged period of time at the highest level.
He has all the tools required to get there of course, would've laughed him here next to Saliba for our rebuild.

I have serious doubts about Umtiti getting back to his level of old as much as you do. Cannot really tell how much a full pre-season might help with that, but I'm confident our regime will have enough insight on that, if they are serious. Can't see them taking a huge risk, they aren't that dumb.

I'm high on Upamecano as many others are, think he's one of a few that might be possible to get. Konate is out of the question for now, sadly.
 
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2Smokeyy

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If all of these defenders in Serie A were so called world class, Bayern, Atletico and Real Madrid would be rebuilding with them. Man United could have bought one of them instead of Maguire. They just aren't as good as you are making out.

And name me the last time Napoli sold a player for a decent price (excluding Jorginho)?

It’s obvious Utd are trying to build a British core at the club with the signings of Maguire, Daniel James, AWB and links to Longstaff etc. Also, Koulibaly would have cost Utd a lot more than they paid for Maguire. De Laurentiis is stern, he doesn’t get bullied by the top European clubs. The only club that has got the better of him was Juventus yet they still had to pay top dollar for Gonzalo Higuain.

How long did the likes of Liverpool and Man Utd want Marek Hamšík for and De Laurentiis kept on pricing them out of a move then years down the line he eventually sold him to a team in China.

The other player I named Škriniar, would be my ideal signing next summer. He’s only 24 which is perfect and would significantly improve our back line. If we’re breaking the bank on attackers then we could certainly do it for him.
 

2Smokeyy

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But he was a starter. And prior to injury he was heading towards world class levels.

That said I don't want a injury prone expensive signing on big salaries.

Kleberson started the World Cup final in 2002 and does that mean he’s world class because he started and won it? Wes Brown done the same in the CL final in 2008 against Chelsea.

It’s a baseless debate to judge it on trophies imo.
 

L3T5 PL4Y

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Kleberson started the World Cup final in 2002 and does that mean he’s world class because he started and won it? Wes Brown done the same in the CL final in 2008 against Chelsea.

It’s a baseless debate to judge it on trophies imo.
That's a different debate but Umtiti was on the verge of becoming world class. Only his terrible injury stopped him.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
Umtiti was/is a brilliant defender. Far more proven and better than De Ligt. The problem is that De Ligt is already very good and should improve with age, where last season Umtiti looked to be on a decline.

If he came here however, he would be clearly our best cb and a good mentor for Salibah and Holding. I'd love him here as long as he isn't a crock.
 

2Smokeyy

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That's a different debate but Umtiti was on the verge of becoming world class. Only his terrible injury stopped him.

So, you’ll take someone who has a poor injury record and his team are flogging him for that reason? You realise he only started 13 games last season.

It looks like another Wilshere, Rosicky, Diaby situation and you know how that ended up.

I’d rather have someone reliable who isn’t damaged goods and can play 30+ games a season.
 

L3T5 PL4Y

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So, you’ll take someone who has a poor injury record and his team are flogging him for that reason? You realise he only started 13 games last season.

It looks like another Wilshere, Rosicky, Diaby situation and you know how that ended up.

I’d rather have someone reliable who isn’t damaged goods and can play 30+ games a season.
I said I don't want him. But you can't deny he is a top quality player regardless of his injuries.
 
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