Starteta Wars: Phase V - The Emerypire Strikes Back

[El Realista]

Culture Champions 24/25

Warra trophy

And the award is for... Mikel and Arsenal, for winning the most duels in the league! What a culture we are watching! - Said no one in football history.

 

[Heskey]

 

[Heskey]

It's literally 4 years since I created that one. Almost to the date.
(I know fully well that we'll now go on a rampant 4 open goals per game run now the next few games.)

 

[Trilly]

@db10_therza @Batman I joke but I do understand what you guys are saying even if I don’t quite agree with the scope/importance of it.

I don’t think it’s a big deal that a manager gets his players to buy into his tactics, I’d immediately sack him if that wasn’t happening.

As for the fans reconnecting with the club again I don’t think that’s anything special, fans are fickle, all you need to do is win.

 

[Entropics]

Wouldn't mind losing this culture, it doesn't inspire anything worth supporting.

 

[El Realista]

@db10_therza @Batman I joke but I do understand what you guys are saying even if I don’t quite agree with the scope/importance of it.

I don’t think it’s a big deal that a manager gets his players to buy into his tactics, I’d immediately sack him if that wasn’t happening.

As for the fans reconnecting with the club again I don’t think that’s anything special, fans are fickle, all you need to do is win.

I think fans are connected with Mikel because he is handsome and has that retorics power like Adolf and Joseph used to have. I don't even think we play great football. If wasn't for corners we were so far below in the table, not only this year but last season too.

I like we are strong in corners but it should be a complement not the main weapon we have. We are predictable and if we are just playing for crosses then why Havertz and GJ as our 9 options and not a target man.

 

[Trilly]

I think fans are connected with Mikel because he is handsome and has that retorics power like Adolf and Joseph used to have.

Some commentator was saying this, can’t remember who but essentially some fanbase just take to certain managers better than others.

Moyes was doomed at United before he even started but I’ll give Arteta credit, his PR is unmatched. It gave him the patience of the fans during his rebuild and that meant the ownership could give him the time he needed.

 

[Sanchez11]

He needs to take us up another level and we become unstoppable.

 

[El Realista]

Some commentator was saying this, can’t remember who but essentially some fanbase just take to certain managers better than others.

Moyes was doomed at United before he even started but I’ll give Arteta credit, his PR is unmatched. It gave him the patience of the fans during his rebuild and that meant the ownership could give him the time he needed.

Emery for example, I don't defend him because we played ugly football and he always bottle in important moments. But he didn't have the support that Arteta has economically and by the fans. Emery and Arteta have a lot of similarities in limitations but one is utter defended and the other one was mocked because he couldn't talk the language and his looks.

 

[RunTheTrap]

I think fans are connected with Mikel because he is handsome and has that retorics power like Adolf and Joseph used to have. I don't even think we play great football. If wasn't for corners we were so far below in the table, not only this year but last season too.

I like we are strong in corners but it should be a complement not the main weapon we have. We are predictable and if we are just playing for crosses then why Havertz and GJ as our 9 options and not a target man.

I think fans are more susceptible to falling for a narrative than anything else. Former Arsenal captain turns into world-class coach and leads the club back to its glory days after years in the wilderness. Get Martin Scorsese and Hans Zimmer on the phone, and you have this decade's Moneyball. It's the sole reason why I wanted Arteta over Emery because of the narrative and it was daring from the club.

But connectedness is fickle. There is only so much turgid and uninspiring football I can swallow before I switch up on Arteta. He lost me when he tried to make Havertz at Left 8 work, and his fear of bringing in attacking reinforcements underpins my dislike of Arteta. He is a defensive coach who speaks lies about being an attacking one.

 

[DUFFMAN]

When we are on form and we aren’t missing half our team we aren’t a defensive team.

Actually I don’t think we are a defensive team ever, we never try sit back and hit teams on the break.

I’m not biting this lazy narrative , it’s an easy stick to try beat Arteta with all media driven.

 

[Batman]

When we are on form and we aren’t missing half our team we aren’t a defensive team.

Actually I don’t think we are a defensive team ever, we never try sit back and hit teams on the break.

I’m not biting this lazy narrative , it’s an easy stick to try beat Arteta with all media driven.

We're not a defensive team but he's taken a cautious approach which was borne out of getting thumped twice by City 2 seasons ago and let that bleed into fixtures where it's simply not necessary. I have no issue with having that approach in our locker as it's valuable in times where you're besieged by injuries or against certain opponents or in scenarios when a draw will do but he has adopted it now too often against opposition that we can play our football against and put to the sword and that's the issue for me.

There are maybe 3-4 teams on earth we should be getting that tactic out for and even then, probably only away from home. Instead it becomes the default tactic for weeks and then leaves us playing catchup as we drop points doing it. That's my issue with Arteta. I'm happy he developed it as a plan B as it was needed but it should not be plan A and too often for swaths of the last 2 seasons, it has been.

 

[Gooner Zig]

We're not a defensive team but he's taken a cautious approach which was borne out of getting thumped twice by City 2 seasons ago and let that bleed into fixtures where it's simply not necessary. I have no issue with having that approach in our locker as it's valuable in times where you're besieged by injuries or against certain opponents or in scenarios when a draw will do but he has adopted it now too often against opposition that we can play our football against and put to the sword and that's the issue for me.

There are maybe 3-4 teams on earth we should be getting that tactic out for and even then, probably only away from home. Instead it becomes the default tactic for weeks and then leaves us playing catchup as we drop points doing it. That's my issue with Arteta. I'm happy he developed it as a plan B as it was needed but it should not be plan A and too often for swaths of the last 2 seasons, it has been.

I don't know if you follow the Arsenal Vision boys but Clive (who's a gem) from that pod basically said exactly this. That after the City draw when we were down to 10 men, we leaned too much into our defensive prowess and took our eye off the fact that we still need to play expansive football.

 

[Batman]

I don't know if you follow the Arsenal Vision boys but Clive (who's a gem) from that pod basically said exactly this. That after the City draw when we were down to 10 men, we leaned too much into our defensive prowess and took our eye off the fact that we still need to play expansive football.

I'm not familiar with them but it's been a theme since early last season where he's gone too far in that direction.

I can understand some of the rationale for it like pacing ourselves earlier in the season to have the legs to go on runs like City have after Christmas etc. but he's overdoing it and it's also the case that when you don't play your football for long periods and get accustomed to this overly cautious grinding sideways game, it's not so simple to just turn your flowing football back on.

We're now in a position where we've got to go in the other direction and be maybe more aggressive than we would otherwise to try to make up ground.

 

[UnitedBeard]

Just imagine the pain you will experience once Rory Delap comes in. Both impossible goals from throw in and set pieces to kill you from laughing too much

I fixed the sentence for you

 

[Rasmi]

I'm not familiar with them but it's been a theme since early last season where he's gone too far in that direction.

I can understand some of the rationale for it like pacing ourselves earlier in the season to have the legs to go on runs like City have after Christmas etc. but he's overdoing it and it's also the case that when you don't play your football for long periods and get accustomed to this overly cautious grinding sideways game, it's not so simple to just turn your flowing football back on.

We're now in a position where we've got to go in the other direction and be maybe more aggressive than we would otherwise to try to make up ground.

Most people learn by suffering. He wanna be cautious and do just enough to win games and the more he gets burned the more likely he’s either to change or leave. The Fulham game is perfect example. In his eyes it would been the perfect win. The fact we didn’t win could be more beneficial for us long term. I kinda love he’s in must win games every week now which goes against his cautious nature

 

[Batman]

Most people learn by suffering. He wanna be cautious and do just enough to win games and the more he gets burned the more likely he’s either to change or leave. The Fulham game is perfect example. In his eyes it would been the perfect win. The fact we didn’t win could be more beneficial for us long term. I kinda love he’s in must win games every week now which goes against his cautious nature

He should have learned that lesson last season when we exploded after the Dubai trip because he took the handbreak off. We were playing football and still had the best defense in the league. He shouldn't have needed to learn the same lesson twice.

 

[Rasmi]

He should have learned that lesson last season when we exploded after the Dubai trip because he took the handbreak off. We were playing football and still had the best defense in the league. He shouldn't have needed to learn the same lesson twice.

Not easy to change your core. To his core he’s cautious. There are manager who used to be defensive and became attacking, but it took years and some several sackings. He’s basically the opposite to Klopp who thrived on chaos and just went for it. Obviously you want middle ground. I think he would change quicker in more challenging environment. Arsenal is very safe and little pressure

 

[Batman]

Not easy to change your core. To his core he’s cautious. There are manager who used to be defensive and became attacking, but it took years and some several sackings. He’s basically the opposite to Klopp who thrived on chaos and just went for it. Obviously you want middle ground. I think he would change quicker in more challenging environment. Arsenal is very safe and little pressure

I agree with you up until the last point. I think the pressure he feels to win here is why he's become so cautious. I'm not talking about pressure like he feels he's going to be sacked, I mean that he really loves the club and wants to deliver here.

He feels the need to avoid losing the title when he should be trying to win it. He feels he lost the title getting battered against City and everything he's done since then has prioritized not losing that way to the detriment of everything else. He has to regain the mindset that you go out and win a title by being brave. He had that mindset 2 years ago.

 

[HagnSprayGooners]

You win titles by creating a quality defence, a quality machine that gets into the final third and then you sign/have the star players in the final third creating/finishing.

Tactically Arteta is brilliant. But we've spent very little on attackers in this 5 year period. Thats down to Arteta and hierarchy/Edu.

Now they're looking for those attackers but is it too late?