Starteta Wars: Phase VI - Return of the Jedinamo Zagreb

[lomekian]

If they’d beaten West Ham they would’ve been 1 point off with three games left:
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Same situation as us last season after we beat Newcastle

Pretty desperate to make this point aren't you! That is literally cherry picking the one moment in the season where they could have the difference of a point (albeit with Sp**s playign more games by then).

Chelsea had a game in hand, and 3 of the worst teams in EPL history to play to finish the season. Sp**s had 2 fixtures where they could have been within 4 points after equal games played, after Chelsea lost to Utd. That was the closest they got at any point and Chelsea had one of the easist champions run ins ever seen with 3 of the bottom 4 and an overachieving but unable to score WBA to win out.

Sp**s had their best top flight run of results in decades to get to finish 7 points behind Chelsea (who we then beat in the cup final).

Bottom line, the last time Sp**s got as close as we did last year was before Twix or Big Macs were invented, and 2 1/2 years before football was shown in colour

 

[lomekian]

I was going to post similar on the subject of injuries. Where I think Arteta might have done better is for example sticking with Kiwi and playing Zinny at left 8. I'd also have liked to see ACD (and others) promoted and given minutes in one of the games that we won easily and I've no idea why Partey didn't start the CL match. There are a few little things that could have been done that might have made a difference. Now in other threads, there are calls for him to be brave and mix things up when he simply can't afford to do so or maybe he can't afford not to....

Agree with the bit in Bold.

ACD has declined to sign a new contract, so the club aren;t going to throw games at him. (and personally I don;t think he;s at the level).

Partey can barely hobble through a 20 min sub appearance at the moment,.

 

[HagnSprayGooners]

Iirc, they started spending in 2008 and won the PL in 2011. The CL is another conversation but they've won the FA Cup and the League Cup.

Correct. So role reverse, if City weren’t about now then Arsenal would’ve won the title after 3 years. It’s purely because City are an absolute juggernaut that we didn’t win it.

So the spending is going well, it’s just gonna be insanely tough to win the league with Pep around.

Klopp having 1 league title in 9 years is proof of that.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Not necessarily only about Arteta but figured this was the best thread to post this.

 

[Dokaka]

I swear Aubameyang and AM is some weird esoteric version of Godwin's law.

 

[PrinzPoldi]

Correct. So role reverse, if City weren’t about now then Arsenal would’ve won the title after 3 years. It’s purely because City are an absolute juggernaut that we didn’t win it.

So the spending is going well, it’s just gonna be insanely tough to win the league with Pep around.

Klopp having 1 league title in 9 years is proof of that.

Unfortunately, a lot of fans (especially here on AM) believe we have to win the title after spending huge money.
If we cannot win, then it is the manager's fault. Wrong setup, wrong tactics, wrong purchase.

They just simply don't understand how much money the other teams also spent and how many years we are behind them, after a 7-year CL absence.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Correct. So role reverse, if City weren’t about now then Arsenal would’ve won the title after 3 years. It’s purely because City are an absolute juggernaut that we didn’t win it.

So the spending is going well, it’s just gonna be insanely tough to win the league with Pep around.

Klopp having 1 league title in 9 years is proof of that.

Very true but City are around. Utd had the league to themselves until Wenger arrived and it took Chelsea and City cheating to make themselves relevant. City will not be punished and we had a fantastic chance last season and still in this one maybe, to win the PL. We are going to have to maintain the insane spend just to make incremental improvements and that might not be enough. The real issue is that if we dont take our chances, our best players will leave and Artea will find himself in the Wenger cycle of no trophies (and no promise of a better long term future ie the stadium) but a lot of money to spend which even then might not be enough. Graham overcame Liverpool and Wenger overcame Utd. Waiting for Pep to leave and being so bad in the cups won't wash for too much longer. The money spent should close the gap caused by inexperience. Let's hope it does by the end of this season.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Unfortunately, a lot of fans (especially here on AM) believe we have to win the title after spending huge money.
If we cannot win, then it is the manager's fault. Wrong setup, wrong tactics, wrong purchase.

They just simply don't understand how much money the other teams also spent and how many years we are behind them, after a 7-year CL absence.

I certainly understand that but I still believe that if an small window of opportunity to win the PL opens then you have to take it. We had a chance last season and the excuse/reason was injury to our best CB. The year before when we were pipped to fourth place, it was inexperience. The current excuse seems to be lack of squad depth which is fair. But it's also fair to point out where the manager might have lessened the impact there. For me, it's the repetition of certain mistakes which experience and better players should ensure isn't easily repeated.

 

[Bucephalus]

Sure. It's probably doomed.

But I lived through all the 5-1s. I watched every minute of the 8-2. This is so much better. So I'll put on the jersey and scarf tomorrow, probably blast North London Forever on my laptop right before the game, and I will not stop believing the PL is possible until it's mathematically impossible. And if I'm lining up to get into the pub at 8 in the morning (America, time zones) hoping for a miracle on the last day of the season, I'll count the season as a success.

Silverware and open-topped bus parades after the fact are boring. The thing that attracts me to football is the journey, the terror and the hope. Until the last whistle blows, anything is possible. We might (probably) not win anything this year, and last year's capitulation sucked, too. But these last two seasons are some of my favorites in my 44 years of following Arsenal. The terror and the hope are back. And I won't stop believing until it's mathematically impossible.

 

[lomekian]

Very true but City are around. Utd had the league to themselves until Wenger arrived and it took Chelsea and City cheating to make themselves relevant. City will not be punished and we had a fantastic chance last season and still in this one maybe, to win the PL. We are going to have to maintain the insane spend just to make incremental improvements and that might not be enough. The real issue is that if we dont take our chances, our best players will leave and Artea will find himself in the Wenger cycle of no trophies (and no promise of a better long term future ie the stadium) but a lot of money to spend which even then might not be enough. Graham overcame Liverpool and Wenger overcame Utd. Waiting for Pep to leave and being so bad in the cups won't wash for too much longer. The money spent should close the gap caused by inexperience. Let's hope it does by the end of this season.

There's a big difference between missing out on the title by 5 points and scraping into top 4 on the last day, despite said best players performing at fantastic levels carrying the team.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

There's a big difference between missing out on the title by 5 points and scraping into top 4 on the last day, despite said best players performing at fantastic levels carrying the team.

No trophy in either scenario. It's the usual end of season collapse that's now a concern. The team scraping in to 4th showed a resilience which would crown us champions if we could replicate it. We fished 3rd in 2008 behind Utd abd Chelsea. Just reversing the Utd result would have seen us win the PL.
Sorry for being a pain. I'll try to sit quietly and wait for Pep to leave City.

 

[PrinzPoldi]

I certainly understand that but I still believe that if an small window of opportunity to win the PL opens then you have to take it. We had a chance last season and the excuse/reason was injury to our best CB. The year before when we were pipped to fourth place, it was inexperience. The current excuse seems to be lack of squad depth which is fair. But it's also fair to point out where the manager might have lessened the impact there. For me, it's the repetition of certain mistakes which experience and better players should ensure isn't easily repeated.

If we played against Sheffield after the first Bayern game, then I would say yes, we must take that chance.
Unfortunately, it was Villa. They are sitting at 4th with a reason.
Not saying they are playing exceptional football, but they have been pretty consistent throughout the season, and they were the only one team, other than us, was able to shut out City.
It was not an easy game.

For our squad size, I would be happy to hear what Arteta say about Vieira and ESR.
What the hell happened to them actually?
They did not even worth a try? I don't know.
Maybe some stories behind? Or they just never fully recovered as we expected?

One thing I want to point out is, sometime there is no right or wrong or mistake learned or not.
Sometimes we could put the best players, most in-form players out there, but by whatever reason the other team just set up the way that could counter what you set up for coincidently, a perfect setup would turn out to be a failure.
Sure there should be some questions to be answered by Arteta, like why he made changes so late in the game against Bayern, but a lot of times, there is no right or wrong, or coaches going by their instinct, or by their experience. A lot of times a **** setup would be perfect if you manage to scrap a win out of nothing.

Even if we go all out and play run and gun; or crossing the ball into the box 50 times in the second half and scored the tying goal, there still will have people out there complaining.
Sure Arteta has his philosophy and I just want to see he can maintain his passion and belief; and take the team to another higher level.

What happen in summer, just wait and see.

 

[fute]

Money doesn't solve everything.

It helps to get you to a certain point. It is why Chelsea and Man U are still top 10 in the league and in the FA Cup semifinals, despite being a *bleep* show.

Funny enough, we played our best football this year after the January transfer window. We didn't spend a dime during that window. Let that sink in.

If our team is good enough to defeat both Pool and City this year, then we are good enough to win the rest of the games.

Enough about what we don't have. We have enough. Just need a manager to coach, motivate and get our team mentally prepared to go out there and not play scared or shrivel up at the first sign of resistance. Those intangibles are what money can't buy.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

The article is moronic because

A) Jamie Carragher has no clue how to win a league
B) Arteta won a trophy in his first few months, Potch won nothing
C) It's quite clearly just meant to wind up Arsenal supporters and get clicks

By all means, let's criticize the guy for his shortcomings but it's deliberately inflammatory and stupid to compare him to a trophyless project when he's already won one and inarguably come far closer to challenging for the title than Potch did with more difference makers in his squad. The 2 crowning moments of the Potch era were "putting the pressure on" Leicester all season and then bottling second place to us and not being able win a CL Final (after 7 Hag gifted them passage) against a Liverpool who saved their worst performance of the season for that match.

How can you forget this momentous Sp**s achievement?!!

 

[El Realista]

So in 1/2 a season and a change of system, formation and approach he didn't do any coaching (despite the players all singing his praises...)

This is just pathetic.

Unless of course you think winning the odd cup but competing for the conference league is better than being in a title race every year...

As for that scouse prick's 'article', Sp**s won F-all and had 1 title challenge in Poch's time, which they managed to bottle so badly they finished 3rd in a 2 horse race.

He didn't play that style again, be rebuilt the whole squad, still he hasn't won anything yet again. That's the fact. If you are going to defend his career for that fortuitous FA cup, good luck with that. Some defending him like he did what Alonso is doing.

The truth is I am jealous of them, what a manager they have, doing what Sir Wenger did here in just one and a half year and not crying about not spending big or referees... Xhaka knew something and jumped on the best moment, smart guy!

 

[El Realista]

It's not Pep, but other coaches copying him that's ruining the game. Football is very simple; but many coaches and fans overthink things.

That's why I love when his football style lose. Even more when is the way Real Madrid defeated City... Marvelous and made my week after Arteta's bottling twice in one week.

 

[lomekian]

No trophy in either scenario. It's the usual end of season collapse that's now a concern. The team scraping in to 4th showed a resilience which would crown us champions if we could replicate it. We fished 3rd in 2008 behind Utd abd Chelsea. Just reversing the Utd result would have seen us win the PL.
Sorry for being a pain. I'll try to sit quietly and wait for Pep to leave City.

You aren't being a pain, I'm just saying that for a player determining whether to stay or leave, there is a big difference between finishing 4-5 points from the title and finishing 25 points from the title. THe former allows you to retain hope and motivation, the latter grinds down your belief

 

[lomekian]

He didn't play that style again, be rebuilt the whole squad, still he hasn't won anything yet again. That's the fact. If you are going to defend his career for that fortuitous FA cup, good luck with that. Some defending him like he did what Alonso is doing.

The truth is I am jealous of them, what a manager they have, doing what Sir Wenger did here in just one and a half year and not crying about not spending big or referees... Xhaka knew something and jumped on the best moment, smart guy!

And he was right to rebuild the squad because we've gone from winning the odd cup and finishing miles off the league to being very close to winning the league.

YEs we came up short last year and may well do again this, but I'd FAR rather be 2 bad results from the league each year than not even in shot and winning the odd cup.

What Alonso has done has been extraodinary. What Arteta has done is very good.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Please could you go back through the timeline to when City started spending. How long did it take for them to assert this kind of dominance? And how much money?

Weirdly Man City finished 10th in the 08/09 season

then 5th in 09/10

Then 3rd in 10/11

Then champions on GD 11/12

Then 2nd (by a lot) in 12/13

So even unprecedented long term investment took 4-5 years to be competing and they didn't have the sheer volume of teams capable of that kind of spend to compete with.

 

[El Realista]

And he was right to rebuild the squad because we've gone from winning the odd cup and finishing miles off the league to being very close to winning the league.

YEs we came up short last year and may well do again this, but I'd FAR rather be 2 bad results from the league each year than not even in shot and winning the odd cup.

What Alonso has done has been extraodinary. What Arteta has done is very good.

Yes I agree, my problem is he can't learn and overcome the same freaking mistakes he does again and again. For example the Havertz LCM thing and Zinchenko LB when everything was working so well before that. The other one which is an enormous problem is his lack of security that reflects in no rotation nor opportunities to young talent.

I said so many times, he is pushing Saka so much he is going to break him, and he did. Saka is playing injured and it's so obvious. Still he can't trust his own system. If it is good and flexible then other players can do it. If only one player can do what you want to play then you are doomed to failure because non player can last every match of the season.

Rest your squad, have them all on good football rhythm and make your squad last longer.

ESR, GJ, Trossard and recently Parted and Zinchenko, all of them can rotate. Then you have Tomi and Vieira to give something if you give them minutes. Even when they are fit, he didn't use them more than 10-15 min.