Club confirm Sven Mislintat leaving Arsenal on February 8

[IslingtonBornandbred]

I thought it was pretty obvious though and I don't know if others will disagree or not, but isn't it fairly obvious you don't replace Patrick Vieira with Cesc Fabregas?

Regardless of Fabregas's technical ability and Vieira's peak behind him, you don't replace Vieira with Fabregas. I don't think I need to go into too much depth about why.

 

[pigge]

I thought it was pretty obvious though and I don't know if others will disagree or not, but isn't it fairly obvious you don't replace Patrick Vieira with Cesc Fabregas?

Regardless of Fabregas's technical ability and Vieira's peak behind him, you don't replace Vieira with Fabregas. I don't think I need to go into too much depth about why.

I think managers go into trouble when they try to replace a unique player with "the same" player. We didnt need viera as much and we could compliment fabregas which was THE future and probably the most obviously talented midfielder at his age for god knows how Long.

 

[Toby]

A good example for this sort of thing is Tielemans at Monaco. He cost a **** load of money, a top end talent and to any outside observer goes straight to the starting line up at a club like Monaco over much lesser players but evidently that's not how it works. He has had to train, adapt and perform to get games. A smaller example would be Goretzka. Top end talent though he cost nothing has had to establish himself at Schalke before becoming a nailed on starter.

Monaco is a bad example as they have an abundancy of CMs next to Tielemans and Golovin, their other new boy, and they are completely reshuffling that midfield after losing key players. So even with his price it's not surprising Tielemans is not a nailed on starter as they are still looking to find their balance overall. And btw most new signings are eased in somewhat, very few players have the ability and quality to ease in extremelx quickly.

The price of the talent is not that relevant in terms of squad position, specially nowadays where the market dictates for a ridiculous number. Havertz for example no matter how costly or what his potential will have to develop and be good enough to start at Arsenal even if he costs 50m. That's the natural process and how it works.

You are right in that the price doesn't dictate the squad place, which I never argued. Guendouzi is a good example for this. Cost relatively less and is still very close to the starting XI.

What I'm arguing is that just going by the market, player prices and Arsenal's financial position in this market, you cannot have five 40 to 60m players sitting on the bench. That is impossible for this club and the vast majority of clubs out there. You arguing that they would be young, developable and rather easy to manage in terms of game time doesn't even face my argument of such a transfer policy stretching most any clubs resources beyond possible. It's a completely different matter.

So let's have an example. Let's have these guys:
Frenkie De Jong - 70m
De Ligt - 60m
Havertz - 50m

That's 180m for the bench right there. The potential to get into the starting XI is there, definitely, but right upon acquisition that's 180m for the bench. That is financially not possible for any club bar City and maybe 2 or 3 more especially if you take into account that Arsenal specifically will have to look for a (starting, depending on Kola) LB instead of Monreal rather soon and another starting CB very probably. So you're looking at over 300m. It's ridiculous to even entertain such ideas.

Now let's take it one further. So you have our current starting XI, plus Mkhitaryan, Guendouzi, Iwobi + Havertz, De Ligt and De Jong. Add Koscielny, Welbeck and Maitland-Niles. That's at least 20 players with starting ambitions or a claim for very regular game time; and just going by positions you have to leave 3 of the attackers out of the squad regularly, cause you need a GK, defenders and a striker on the bench, too. That right there is a recipe for unsatisfied players. Look at Bayern, an example you brought up with Goretzka: Sanches, James, Muller, Robben and Ribery have all gone to the press complaining about game time.

A squad consists of 23 players and you need to have guys in there who don't cost much cause you need the big money to bring in top players, who are happy to ride the bench or even not make the squad cause they can acknowledge the superior quality in the squad and who shut their mouth while doing this. Now the trick is to get as much value for money with these guys, cause every now and then for injury or rotation matters one or two of them might have to play.

Elneny is such a player, Havertz isn't.
Holding is such a player, de Ligt isn't.
Lichtsteiner is such a player, De Jong isn't.

Now if you think we could bring in one such high priced talent who's right in the vicinity of our starting XI, I'd agree with you. But de Ligt and de Jong are absolutely unattainable - they are City, Utd, Barca, Real material. Havertz might be possible, but honestly he's got Bayern written all over him. And btw a young, more clear cut winger like Neres, Bailey, Sarr would be a better addition than the three you mentioned - a U23 winger, CB and LB for 100 to 150m while losing Ramsey and Chambers and keeping everyone else would be a realistic good next summer for example.

It would make for a squad of 11 "starters", 5 to 7 "starting contenders" and 5 to 7 squad and rotation players plus younsters across all positions.

If you still think you can fill 20 of 23 squad places with high priced, high performing players with starting ambitions you are seriously more in the territory of a PlayStation game or the Sheikhs' world than the real football world in terms of squad planning.

 

[Batman]

I think managers go into trouble when they try to replace a unique player with "the same" player. We didnt need viera as much and we could compliment fabregas which was THE future and probably the most obviously talented midfielder at his age for god knows how Long.

True enough but when you win a certain way and not just win but do so in truly dominant fashion, the qualities those departing players had must be replaced by new players. So while yes, you maybe can't replace Vieira or Gilberto with a player in exactly the same mould, the sum of your new midfield needs to add up to the qualities those players had. To lose Vieira and Gilberto and not have anyone with any snarl to partner Fabregas(outside of Flamini's purple patch) for YEARS smacked of tremendous neglect. Maybe you need 2 players to replace all that Vieira did and maybe those 2 players aren't stars like Vieira but Cesc was treated as the Vieira replacement and the obvious Vieira qualities he did not have were not provided by complimentary players. That was a massive mistake.

 

[Norrin Radd]

What would you guys prefer in January; a pacey, skilful dribbler of a winger, or a beastly CB? You can only choose one.

Even with Iwobi in the stellar form he's in at the moment, I'd probably choose the former. I have faith in Sokratis, our defence will only improve with time. I feel like an electric winger would complete our attack.

I really like the look of Rony Lopes at Monaco. With our favourite son now at the helm over there, perhaps a deal could be done.

 

[pigge]

True enough but when you win a certain way and not just win but do so in truly dominant fashion, the qualities those departing players had must be replaced by new players. So while yes, you maybe can't replace Vieira or Gilberto with a player in exactly the same mould, the sum of your new midfield needs to add up to the qualities those players had. To lose Vieira and Gilberto and not have anyone with any snarl to partner Fabregas(outside of Flamini's purple patch) for YEARS smacked of tremendous neglect. Maybe you need 2 players to replace all that Vieira did and maybe those 2 players aren't stars like Vieira but Cesc was treated as the Vieira replacement and the obvious Vieira qualities he did not have were not provided by complimentary players. That was a massive mistake.

Gilberto played like Four years (?) After viera left though. So You got a player thats more defensive and a player thats more agressive. I think its a decent idea. Long term it might not have worked out after gilberto left but when the 'replacement' happened it was reasonable IMO.

 

[Trilly]

Frenkie De Jong - 70m

Who is this kid and why is he rated at 70m?!

 

[Toby]

Who is this kid and why is he rated at 70m?!

Apparent Ajax CM wonderkid. Never seen him play but 60 to 80m are the numbers being thrown around for him.

 

[MutableEarth]

Who is this kid and why is he rated at 70m?!

He's one of the best players of his age in the world - City and Barca both in for him already, Ajax want at least 50 mil. Plays CB and CM.

 

[Impact]

Who is this kid and why is he rated at 70m?!

The heir to Modric's throne as the world's best midfielder. Has every tool in his locker and has the swagger to match. If he stays injury free, he'll be at a top 5 club in Europe in 2-3 years max.

 

[dashsnow17]

The heir to Modric's throne as the world's best midfielder. Has every tool in his locker and has the swagger to match. If he stays injury free, he'll be at a top 5 club in Europe in 2-3 years max.

Barca will replace Pique with de Ligt and Busquets with de Jong and they’ll carry on winning everything like the pricks they are. It is known.

 

[HollandGooner]

Apparent Ajax CM wonderkid. Never seen him play but 60 to 80m are the numbers being thrown around for him.

He will be the real deal he is not CESC talent like but he will be at that level at least but the mentioned 80 million is ridicilous tbf, would sign him tbf but not for the mentioned price.

 

[GoonerBoy19]

City is also after Frenkie de Jong and he will go for big money, another one to keep an eye on is Nicolo Barella. We have sent scouts for him in past but AC or Inter looks keen to sign him. Both kids have potential to become world class.

 

[N@th@n]

I thought it was pretty obvious though and I don't know if others will disagree or not, but isn't it fairly obvious you don't replace Patrick Vieira with Cesc Fabregas?

The only reason it was a choice between Cesc or Vieira (aside from Pat Vieira maybe wanting to leave) was that they didn't work as a pair.

I remember seeing highlights from the 05 FA Cup final not long ago and they played in a midfield 3 with Gilberto sitting behind them. I know we were poor on the day but that midfield had potential to really work. Easily a match for Chelsea's Lampard, Makelele, Essien that was pretty dominant around that time.

Cesc could have been more of a Bergkamp replacement instead (just a bit deeper) who he had more skills in common with and with Dennis being about to retire.

I know 442 was the default and RVP was seen as the heir to Dennis in the 11 but in hindsight that could have worked so well .

 

[boyinneedofhumor]

He's one of the best players of his age in the world - City and Barca both in for him already, Ajax want at least 50 mil. Plays CB and CM.

Ahem... Chambers, Bielik, Holding...
I figure I might have missed out more.

 

[boyinneedofhumor]

What would you guys prefer in January; a pacey, skilful dribbler of a winger, or a beastly CB? You can only choose one.

Winger... as opposed to using fullbacks or wide forwards, when considering cover is needed during a hectic schedule
(Unless Nelson or ESR is suddenly fast-tracked to regularly play in 2nd half this season)

Any beast might end up purring here instead, had the Emery era not set in...

 

[Trilly]

He's one of the best players of his age in the world - City and Barca both in for him already, Ajax want at least 50 mil. Plays CB and CM.

CB and CM...intersting.

 

[Dutch D]

He does not consider himself a CB. He also definitely doesnt have the physique to play CB in the PL. Nevertheless, it has improved his defensive awareness, ability to disposses players and he uses his body in a smarter way in duels now.

One of the brightest cm talents in the world for sure, and I'm going to enjoy his final season at Ajax. Would love to see him at Arsenal but I think he is beyond our price range.

 

[MutableEarth]

Ahem... Chambers, Bielik, Holding...
I figure I might have missed out more.

He's more of a midfielder anyway, and likely out of our range.

 

[The_Playmaker]

Barca will replace Pique with de Ligt and Busquets with de Jong and they’ll carry on winning everything like the pricks they are. It is known.

De ligt wants Barca. City want De Jong to play at the base of their midfield.