$tan Kroenke Becomes Soul Owner

[db10_therza]

Arsène was just unlucky that Stan wasn't able to get rid of Usmanov quicker. I think Stan would have spent more with Arsène in charge if he'd gotten full ownership quicker. He did buy Arsène 2 50m strikers in the same season. It just didn't make sense for the level of investment we see now to take place with Usmanov at the club because you'd only be increasing the value of his shares and make buying him out both more difficult and more expensive.

David Dein will always be a legend here but he really ****ed up with the Usmanov call.

 

[Deleted member x1214]

It just didn't make sense for the level of investment we see now to take place with Usmanov at the club because you'd only be increasing the value of his shares and make buying him out both more difficult and more expensive.

So you think KSE was justified in watching our barren spell in order to get the best deal in buying the club?

I don't, particularly seeing how it's been almost 20 years later. He's better than what Usmanov would have been for us but otherwise I feel nothing towards KSE's ownership. I lowkey think it's even a shame really.

 

[The Ducking Duck]

Kroenke doesn't care about trophies. The only thing he cares about is the Champions League but that's because of financial reasons. If he cared about trophies, he would have sacked Arteta this summer. The difference between him and the Glazers is that he doesn't steal money from the club anymore (that's because he can't) and doesn't let the stadium fall into disrepair.

 

[db10_therza]

So you think KSE was justified in watching our barren spell in order to get the best deal in buying the club?

Put yourself in their shoes for a minute. It would literally be like giving money to Usmanov who you’re locked in a battle with for ownership. Remember he’s a businessman, not a fan. None of these owners are fans.

Is it justified from his perspective- absolutely. From ours? No - but who gives a toss about us really.

 

[Deleted member x1214]

Put yourself in their shoes for a minute. It would literally be like giving money to Usmanov who you’re locked in a battle with for ownership. Remember he’s a businessman, not a fan. None of these owners are fans.

Is it justified from his perspective- absolutely. From ours? No - but who gives a toss about us really.

All nice and lovely for the billionaire where we are just one of his teams, but for me it was a sign of things to come really.

As far as KSE is concerned I could take it or leave it.

 

[Batman]

So you think KSE was justified in watching our barren spell in order to get the best deal in buying the club?

I don't, particularly seeing how it's been almost 20 years later. He's better than what Usmanov would have been for us but otherwise I feel nothing towards KSE's ownership. I lowkey think it's even a shame really.

Show me where in my post I said it was justified. I'll wait. I explained the rationale for their decision from a practical and financial perspective. If you're upset with it then write them a letter.

 

[Batman]

Kroenke doesn't care about trophies. The only thing he cares about is the Champions League but that's because of financial reasons. If he cared about trophies, he would have sacked Arteta this summer. The difference between him and the Glazers is that he doesn't steal money from the club anymore (that's because he can't) and doesn't let the stadium fall into disrepair.

You keep saying this like he's not one of the most successful owners in sports. You don't win a Superbowl, Stanley Cup and NBA Championship all within 2 years if you don't care about trophies. Arsenal happen to be the club he's owned for the shortest period and football is the sport he knows the least about. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about winning. It means this sport is going to be more challenging for him to succeed in. There's also no Manchester City nakedly cheating in any of the other leagues he owns franchises in, so there's that as well. Make a valid criticism, not a lazy one.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

You keep saying this like he's not one of the most successful owners in sports. You don't win a Superbowl, Stanley Cup and NBA Championship all within 2 years if you don't care about trophies. Arsenal happen to be the club he's owned for the shortest period and football is the sport he knows the least about. That doesn't mean he doesn't care about winning. It means this sport is going to be more challenging for him to succeed in. There's also no Manchester City nakedly cheating in any of the other leagues he owns franchises in, so there's that as well. Make a valid criticism, not a lazy one.

If Kroenke somehow gets through an extension of the Emirates from 60k to 80k, it is perhaps his biggest legacy.

I just don't see how the infrastructure around it can handle it though.....It was easier to leave old Wembley with 90k....

 

[Batman]

If Kroenke somehow gets through an extension of the Emirates from 60k to 80k, it is perhaps his biggest legacy.

Yeah it would be an incredible achievement on his part to be able to turn a stadium that sadly quickly got outdated while being a millstone on the club's finances for years into massive venue with more economic potential. It would come at quite a large expenditure as well so this notion that the guy is just sitting there trying to get top 4 and nothing else is simply not accurate. Trophies will come. Their commitment has been there these last few years.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Yeah it would be an incredible achievement on his part to be able to turn a stadium that sadly quickly got outdated while being a millstone on the club's finances for years into massive venue with more economic potential. It would come at quite a large expenditure as well so this notion that the guy is just sitting there trying to get top 4 and nothing else is simply not accurate. Trophies will come. Their commitment has been there these last few years.

I think sometimes people forget the size of this club. You could fill 100k easily. Many of us pay £500 for a ticket, unless I win in the Arsenal Norway Supporters Club lottery, and get a ticket at face value. That's happened 6 times for me the last 10 years or so.

 

[Batman]

I think sometimes people forget the size of this club. You could fill 100k easily. Many of us pay £500 for a ticket, unless I win in the Arsenal Norway Supporters Club lottery, and get a ticket at face value. That's happened 6 times for me the last 10 years or so.

For sure. I think Arsenal Ladies would easily fill the 80k capacity too. Then you consider all the acts that Tottenham are presently booking who might prefer a venue right around the corner with extra capacity and you can see immediately how the revenue could be enormous and give us different spending power.

 

[Deleted member x1214]

Show me where in my post I said it was justified. I'll wait.

I didn't that's why I asked. Seems you were saying what db10 was saying - Stan was being a smart billionaire. I'm saying it would have been great had he done that somewhere else.

 

[fute]

Stan and co view Arsenal through the lens of american sports.

Put out a winning product, contend, and eventually we'll win a title. It is not trophy (championship) or bust

A lot of good coaches don't win championships, but had longevity (Jerry Sloan with the Jazz, Marv Levy with the Bills) or it takes a while before they win their first (Larry Brown in the NBA. Tony Dungy and Andy Reid in the NFL).

A lot of 'ambitious' owners fail miserably. Snyder with Washington Football Team, Carolina Panthers current Owner. Dolan with the Knicks. Woody with the Jets. lol

From that perspective, Arteta has done well.

Club makes money. We are winning. Slow and steady wins the race. That is their approach.

 

[Tnegs]

I would have thought that the last 4-5 years put Kroenke beyond criticism. He’s taken over our debt interest free and invested big into the club. Can’t realistically ask for more from your owner especially with PSR and FFP actually seeming to matter now.

 

[Batman]

I didn't that's why I asked. Seems you were saying what db10 was saying - Stan was being a smart billionaire. I'm saying it would have been great had he done that somewhere else.

Ok so you just don't understand how business works. You wanted a sugar Daddy like Abramovich or Mansour just ploughing money into the club and turning it into a soulless entity that would probably be under investigation. Or you wanted him to spend enough money to have kept Usmanov around so that we too could have been in the position of losing an owner when the war broke out like Everton and Chelsea. To each their own I guess. I prefer the guy who wins at all of his other clubs and has had this club challenging the past 2 seasons.

 

[Deleted member x1214]

Ok so you just don't understand how business works.

Interesting deduction but no, I just think Stan's reputation for teams he cares about in America and his reputation here in the UK are two different things. He's seen as a winner over there, here he's just a silent owner.

You wanted a sugar Daddy like Abramovich or Mansour just ploughing money into the club and turning it into a soulless entity that would probably be under investigation.

Tell me where I said this and I will show you where you said you condone Stan watching the club decline and bleed out was justified.

Even long after the takeover was complete this guy Stan left voids at executive level for so long, allowing for royal rumbles to take place behind the scenes with clowns like Gazidis/Mislintat/Raul scrambling for power. How anybody can say this is great or use Usmanov to justify this I don't know.

Better the devil you know for the placid, but I would definitely like someone more ambitious and less absent at the head of the club and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. 2 good years doesn't erase 15+ years of mediocrity either.

 

[Batman]

Interesting deduction but no, I just think Stan's reputation for teams he cares about in America and his reputation here in the UK are two different things. He's seen as a winner over there, here he's just a silent owner.



Tell me where I said this and I will show you where you said you condone Stan watching the club decline and bleed out was justified.

Even long after the takeover was complete this guy Stan left voids at executive level for so long, allowing for royal rumbles to take place behind the scenes with clowns like Gazidis/Mislintat/Raul scrambling for power. How anybody can say this is great or use Usmanov to justify this I don't know.

Better the devil you know for the placid, but I would definitely like someone more ambitious and less absent at the head of the club and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. 2 good years doesn't erase 15+ years of mediocrity either.

He didn't have full control of the club for 15 years and your posts do show a fundamental misunderstanding of how business works. If you understood how business works, you wouldn't be wishing for an archetype of owner that doesn't actually exist outside a couple of extreme examples.

Nobody was going to invest more to enrich a co-owner they were trying to buy out. If you want to moan about someone, moan about Dein not vetting Usmanov better before creating a power struggle. He brought both into the club and he's the most ambitious figure in the club's history outside Herbert Chapman.

The subtext of what you were saying is that the rich guy should have ignored basic business common sense to make you happy spending more of his money while entrenching his competitor's position in the club. That makes no logical sense for anyone.

You do of course have every right to moan but doing it from a place of ignorance and a naive amount of idealism about how an owner is going to behave in this sports landscape is only the platform for an emotional moan, not a practical one. Your perception of him does not supercede the actual reality of what he is an an owner. The club is financially healthy and has improved tremendously since he took full control.

 

[Deleted member x1214]

You do of course have every right to moan but doing it from a place of ignorance and a naive amount of idealism about how an owner is going to behave in this sports landscape

Insinuating I am ignorant/naive/idealist because I pointed out Stan's known and well documented absentee style whilst you hail him as the most righteous and amazing billionaire is ironic to put it politely.

If me suggesting KSE isn't the most ambitious with Arsenal (not his American teams but specifically Arsenal) immediately means I lack business acumen and whatever else you insinuated, then fine you got it

 

[Batman]

Insinuating I am ignorant/naive/idealist because I pointed out Stan's known and well documented absentee style whilst you hail him as the most righteous and amazing billionaire is ironic to put it politely.

If me suggesting KSE isn't the most ambitious with Arsenal (not his American teams but specifically Arsenal) immediately means I lack business acumen and whatever else you insinuated, then fine you got it

You literally had to have the obvious rationale for him waiting to invest heavily explained to you more than once by different people, so yes.

Your argument revolves strictly around your feelings and a characterization of him against an idealized version of what you think an owner should be. You've yet to make a single argument rooted in fact and so now you're reduced to silly straw men about me calling him righteous and amazing when I didn't say anything of the sort.

The best you can do apparently is continue complaining that the guy didn't act against his own interest and maybe the club's by investing more earlier and in doing so, enriching and entrenching a problematic co-owner. There is no world where more Usmanov would have been a good thing yet that's what you continue to complain about not getting whether you mean to or not.

 

[albakos]

David Dein will always be a legend here but he really ****ed up with the Usmanov call.

Yes, unfortunately, for all his legacy and being so trustful to Wenger, Dein made a series of bad calls, which had a major impact on the instability of the club in the Emirates era. It's only because Wenger still respects Dein, that he still goes public about his time as a director and part of the Arsenal Board.

When Dein first brought Kroenke to the board, this seems to have created enemies on board level, with PHW famously saying (paraphrasing): "We don't need their sorts here."

After this, Dein was quickly sacked from the board, so then what Dein does is what many vengeful people want: try to get one back at them. He sells his shares to Usmanov by making him the second (or third) -largest shareholder. His son also contributed to weakening of our squad by convincing key players to leave: Fabregas and VP to name a few.

Then, before Fiszman passed away, apparently there was some will of sorts from the other board members to Fiszman that they would never allow Dein or his entourage to get hold of the club.

At the time, there were some metaphors used of Arsenal Board being led from the grave, indicating Fiszman's "late wish.". However, this created a kind of status quo where Stan was patient, despite this clearly affecting our team and the financial difficulties that Wenger had to contend with in public with toxic fans.

Once Lady Nina sold her shares to Kroenke, then it was all over, as it was inevitable that Kroenke would become the owner; he only had to wait until Usmanov blinked and got bored.