• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

The Koscielny Dilemma

DanDare

Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief
Trusted ⭐

Player:Saliba
alboots101 said:
I think Vermaelan is key to all our central defensive issues.

As in he contributes to them? If so I disagree. They were there before he came.
 

ricky1985

Established Member
I'm sure Boots means Vermaelen's continued absence is the issue.

I don't think we realise quite how good the guy is.
 

Mastadon

Established Member
DJ_Markstar said:
I don't agree that he is technically poor and I think he has a wonderful passing range for a CB, although he needs to become more reliable on that front. I agree with the OP on the remaining points.I also think his pace is massively underrated.

All in all, there is a very classy defender lurking in there waiting to come out - but he is too inconsistent right now.

I agree with this he has many good points and has had quite a few very good games for us where he looked like the classy defender you mentioned. He is 26 now and it really is time to start performing consistently he is around the peak age for a defender. Having said that he just keeps on making mistakes and having poor games so who knows whether he will ever be good enough to be first choice for us..Clouded the future of this one is
 

arsmile

Established Member
kos is fine. I think he's perfectly good enough to start for us.


i dont think our primary defensive problem is personel- which is saying something when you look at some of the dross in our ranks. (DJ and squid)

none of them have been told when to do what, how or why...all 11 of our players on the pitch at any one time have had either no instructions in the past 5 years, or a succession of wrong instructions.

the answer is not a new superstar CB and nor was it a seven foot german. Just get someone who knows what they are doing to tell them where to stand...and if they make a mistake once- tell them what it was, and tell them what they should have done instead.
 

cuban

Established Member
I really rate this guy...and eventough I agree this is bit of a dillemma (in a way that Kos divides opinions) I don't really agree with some observations in a opening post...

he is surely not weak technically...for me his main weak points are that he tries to play perfect pass out of defence and carry the ball out himself which ends up in giving the ball away in dangerous area more often than I would like and then his positioning and marking at set pieces...even in the air he doesn't really have that many problems from the open play...but he struggles with set plays...wether that is down to our system or lack of contrentation or something else I don't know...

he is also bit naive at times and yes...bit inconsistent...right now he is maybe suffering from new partner (as is Mert)

all in all I think that he is far from being our being our biggest problem defensively...for me he is 3rd best defender at the club
 

blaze_of_glory

Moderator
Moderator

Country: Canada
Agree with the comments that our defensive issues are more down to tactics and organization as opposed to personnel. Kos is a good defender, as are Vermaelen and Mertesacker.
 

dyeruz

Established Member
viper_001 said:
The Koscielny dilemma? :lol: How about the Arsenal defensive disaster? We could have a time machine and have a prime CB pairing of Beckenbauer and Tony Adams and we'd still ship goals... why?


1 - Zonal marking. Garbage garbage garbage. Why do we even attempt this?

2 - High defensive line with no pressing from the midfield? No tracking back from the wingers and strikers? Let's not try to be Barcelona if we can't get the basics right.

Those two very glaring holes are what will plague us until we get to the root of them. Neither have to do with signing new players, but bringing in a defensive coach and playing to our strengths. We can still play a passing style, but if we want to ship less goals we'll have to be defensively compact and make our plays from the back. Song needs to stop thinking he's the black Zidane, and we need to start man marking on set pieces.

Right now our off the ball movement is disgusting. Hopefully we pull it together this season.
Have to agree but I think it's to simplistic to say bring in a defensive coach etc etc. A defensive coach wont improve Djourou reaction time or dull his ability to somehow slip whilst wearing lead boots...or moving like he's got them. I do agree about Song though and him getting caught too far upfield but it's more than that, we have to regress in order to progress, our players are adaptable enough, enough with the trying to play silky football, play two upfront, tell Song if he moves 2 inches past the halfway line he'll explode..or someone will shave his precious hair.
Adversity might make this team grow stronger, and hopefully next time Gervinho spots RVP in the open he makes the pass and stop being so damn selfish :) Roll on Shrewsbury..the Bolton..gulp!
 

qs

Established Member
cuban said:
I really rate this guy...and eventough I agree this is bit of a dillemma (in a way that Kos divides opinions) I don't really agree with some observations in a opening post...

he is surely not weak technically...for me his main weak points are that he tries to play perfect pass out of defence and carry the ball out himself which ends up in giving the ball away in dangerous area more often than I would like and then his positioning and marking at set pieces...even in the air he doesn't really have that many problems from the open play...but he struggles with set plays...wether that is down to our system or lack of contrentation or something else I don't know...

he is also bit naive at times and yes...bit inconsistent...right now he is maybe suffering from new partner (as is Mert)

all in all I think that he is far from being our being our biggest problem defensively...for me he is 3rd best defender at the club

Good post. I'd agree with alot of that, especially where you see Kos strengths and weaknesses. And all the problems you mention can be resolved easily enough trough organisation, coaching and leadership.
 

Shadow Moses

Established Member
I've been saying he's **** since last season but for some reason some poeople think he's good. He has no place in a PL team. He's weak, clumsy and error prone. He's been making errors since his first game at Pool last season. Complete disaster
 

law90026

Established Member
Saying he's the 3rd best defender in the club doesn't really mean anything because that's an internal relative measurement. The question is whether Kos would be a starter in the squads of our one-time rivals ... and the answer, I suspect, is no.
 

Glovegun

Established Member
Koscielny is at times superb, and at others an absolute liability.

That isn't good enough.

Defending isn't like attacking. If a striker misses a couple of sitters but bangs in a screamer he's done his job. If a centre-back makes dozens of match-winning tackles but makes an error which leads to a goal, he hasn't.

Being a good defender is about getting the basics right. Communicating, working the offside trap and clearing your lines. Yeah OK, Koscielny managed to shackle Messi last year at the Emirates. Fantastic. But what use is it being able to handle the world's best striker if you air kick it in a cup final against relegation fodder, get beaten to a header by Danny Welbeck (and conceding eight goals in the process) and completely mugged off at Ewood Park by a team that will most likely go down this season?

Mertesacker is a good enough and experienced enough player to be able to form a decent partnership with Vermaelen, given time and coaching. But Djourou is a busted flush, Miquel looks too hesitant and weak, and Squillaci isn't even worth mentioning. Bartley I've got fairly high hopes for, but he'll still need time. If Vermaelen's three week injury turns into another year out, we need another centre-half - and it doesn't matter how much it costs, or we'll end up being the most financially efficient team in the Europa League.

Koscielny is a talented footballer, but when it comes down to it he is too error-prone and too inconsistent - and thus not good enough. End of story.
 

dafish

Active Member
In a way Kos reminds me of a dm. He likes to stop people from dribbling, he likes marking the ball carrier closely, not afraid to hassle opponents. And his give-away passes or mistimed tackles won't cause nearly as much damage. In someways he reminds me of petit (who started as a mediocre CB but ended up a good DM)
 

redwhiteAustrian

Tu Felix Austria
Administrator
The point that Kos might be a good DM, has been made here on A-M already and I think it's a valid one.
He would floruish in this position, but I can't see Wenger transforming him.

After all he's 26 now, and I don't know whether he can adapt to a new role quickly enough.
 

yuvken

Established Member
Don't think the DM idea would work (and I'm quite sure it won't happen). Compare to petit? can he handle the ball or pass like him?
CB, with a consistency issue (at this time). Intelligent, confident and hungry - good chance he can overcome this (not a sure thing, but not unlikely. The age thing? don't know. I don't think it's a very strong argument. more relevant is the high level experience, and PL/CL in particular. Not a lot of milage there, and I think that factor plays for him. I like Kos. I said it before, and probably will have to do it again - he's not our big problem. A bit of a new clichy, in a way).
 

law90026

Established Member
If he was a good DM, he would already be playing as a DM. Few players can just change positions mid-way through their career and flourish.
 

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
law90026 said:
If he was a good DM or Wenger saw potential, wenger would already be playing him as a DM. Few players can just change positions mid-way through their career and flourish.

Fixed that for you.
 

HollandGooner

Established Member

Country: Netherlands

Player:Ødegaard
In CL matches he is a very very good defender but at EPL level its just another story with him
 

jaguars4ever

Active Member
As I've been saying all along, Kos has never been good enough for us, week in week out. The only surprise is how long it's taken people to realize this.
 

Latest posts+

Top Bottom