Aussie
Established Member
Exactly Jinn its a great word that describes free flowing awsome football that we play.
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The significance of being unbeaten?
- Thread starter jc8gooner
- Start date
- Replies 83
- Views 2,647
A
Anonymous
Guest
Jinn said:
The first time it was used it was a joke but to continue to use it and use it seriously is a joke as well.
It is not and never will be a great word.
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
The first time it was used was a joke and that is understandable because the term is laughable. It's the kind of term stand up comedians create to make fun of something, by adding ball at the end of it.
The way Wenger plays, if you read l'equipe is basically Total Football and many teams around Europe play the same way. This authority over the word and the way we play just highlight how little football some of you watch.
It's one touch, free flowing football. It's Total Football, the Brazilians first played it adapting it towards the French, Italian and Dutch where the Italians expanded it towards a more defensive routine as well. If you read football books you'll see the word being mentioned a lot. I shan't tell you what it is because I think some research is well in order and the buying of videos is too.
Don't give Wenger authority on it, he himself watches videos to adapt this style of for his players. In fact this type of play is addressed every week on Italian and Spanish football shows. You don't know this due to lack of research.
Wenger is a phenomenal manager to implement this type of game but the fact is and it has to be accepted, many other teams play this way in Europe too. The teams like Deportivo, Monaco, AC Milan, Roma all arrive in reference to Arsenal when this football is played.
The word is utter rubbish, it was a joke and that is understandable and very funny. I couldn't believe some people were taking it seriously. It's obvious and scientific that groups create words withing cliques to highlight their exclusivity and then wannabe members of the group will adopt those words as well to exhibit interest in joining the group. In every day words this is called "mob mentality" and "arse kissing".
At the end of the day people have given unique authority on it because they have concluded "this is Wenger". This as I have stated earlier highlights a lack of experience and dis-interest in improvement and understanding of Wenger who continues to watch football and continues to learn. Not only from himself but from other teams. Watching the likes of AC Milan, Locomotive Moscow, River Plate (yup illustrated in Wenger press conferences) who Wenger learns from.
This all highlights the lack of understanding of the game that is played in front of us and around us. Furthermore, as is always illustrated here, it highlights the authoritarian statemented dictatorial slant people have upon what they see as the be all and end all. I've noticed time and time again people agreeing with other posters without grasping what the poster is talking about. Again an egotistical slant exists and this is exhibited within the creating of words like Wengerball as crude and horrible it is.
Go and watch some football videos, read interviews and respect other teams. You'll realise Wenger ball doesn't exist other than the fact if you want to call it that the likes of Mourinhoball, Ancelottiball, Ranieriball (someone Wenger says he learns a lot from), Iruretaball and etc etc.
So I can understand it if it was a joke, that's clear but the fact people take it seriously around a climate of people who think they know football (where posts are left unread and ignored due to superiority complexes) is kind of worrying if not very worrying in a place we're supposed to worship football.
The way Wenger plays, if you read l'equipe is basically Total Football and many teams around Europe play the same way. This authority over the word and the way we play just highlight how little football some of you watch.
It's one touch, free flowing football. It's Total Football, the Brazilians first played it adapting it towards the French, Italian and Dutch where the Italians expanded it towards a more defensive routine as well. If you read football books you'll see the word being mentioned a lot. I shan't tell you what it is because I think some research is well in order and the buying of videos is too.
Don't give Wenger authority on it, he himself watches videos to adapt this style of for his players. In fact this type of play is addressed every week on Italian and Spanish football shows. You don't know this due to lack of research.
Wenger is a phenomenal manager to implement this type of game but the fact is and it has to be accepted, many other teams play this way in Europe too. The teams like Deportivo, Monaco, AC Milan, Roma all arrive in reference to Arsenal when this football is played.
The word is utter rubbish, it was a joke and that is understandable and very funny. I couldn't believe some people were taking it seriously. It's obvious and scientific that groups create words withing cliques to highlight their exclusivity and then wannabe members of the group will adopt those words as well to exhibit interest in joining the group. In every day words this is called "mob mentality" and "arse kissing".
At the end of the day people have given unique authority on it because they have concluded "this is Wenger". This as I have stated earlier highlights a lack of experience and dis-interest in improvement and understanding of Wenger who continues to watch football and continues to learn. Not only from himself but from other teams. Watching the likes of AC Milan, Locomotive Moscow, River Plate (yup illustrated in Wenger press conferences) who Wenger learns from.
This all highlights the lack of understanding of the game that is played in front of us and around us. Furthermore, as is always illustrated here, it highlights the authoritarian statemented dictatorial slant people have upon what they see as the be all and end all. I've noticed time and time again people agreeing with other posters without grasping what the poster is talking about. Again an egotistical slant exists and this is exhibited within the creating of words like Wengerball as crude and horrible it is.
Go and watch some football videos, read interviews and respect other teams. You'll realise Wenger ball doesn't exist other than the fact if you want to call it that the likes of Mourinhoball, Ancelottiball, Ranieriball (someone Wenger says he learns a lot from), Iruretaball and etc etc.
So I can understand it if it was a joke, that's clear but the fact people take it seriously around a climate of people who think they know football (where posts are left unread and ignored due to superiority complexes) is kind of worrying if not very worrying in a place we're supposed to worship football.
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
Jkreffer said:
Yup, it does. It's an awful word and lunguistically doesn't even begin to encompass what it's talking about. That way I could agree it was a joke. It's funny but to take it seriously oh god. Aren't we more intelligent than this?
Wenger will always change and we haven't stopped changing. The way we played in 98 is different to 99, 00, 01,02, 03 and every year because Wenger always changes.
Right now we've built up towards ultimately what the Dutch used to have as Total Football. This is why we don't refer to our center-midfield as the great partnership as we did with Petit-Vieira as we have evolved since then to more movement. Pat has begun to swap and change with Gilberto and each one drifts defensively and offensively while Gilberto helps on the right more. We have become more fluidic but our center halves are still stuck - so the question here is will we change further?
The fact that we will change further and history states we do change means, we will never have a distinct way of playing due to changes in midfield and advances in experience and development. We will strive to become different so as not to be sussed out - we will change. Wenger, iff anything states he will always improve and change and the players concur.
Lauren has been a question mark lately regarding his "contribution". Now the way we play Lauren is not your everyday, get stuck in right back. He drifts forward in the decoy manoeuvres that himself and Freddie indulge in. Partly because of our reliance on a world class player of Henry who likes to go left - it's Henry's left favouring that makes us - less fluidic.
So in comes Reyes, it is free flowing but we still have players with unique talents who are very much set in there way of playing.
Which ends with the way we play isn't entirely free-flowing. We have players who understand each other but it's more strategic. More spreading defences and teams apart. More creating space but Total Dutch Football? not entirely yet. AC Milan are very much closer to it.
Reyes and Van Persie could be the key to unlocking all this and making it all more free-flowing but, do we have to?
No - our way of playing is ultimately strategic space making. We pull defenders and teams apart to create space. We use individual talents for this too.
So it leaves me questioning, although we do counter attack and counter attack a lot, are we ultimately free flowing? People do have their reservations of our rightside (due to lack of understanding of it) so are we something other than free flowing, which is basically something many teams have?
Wengerball?, not an issue.
kanuuu
Established Member
I didn't realise how often the term is used now, if you type wengerball in the search option it comes up with a ****load of threads!
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
kanuuu said:
Yeah, Gastly isn't it.
Reminds me of the Gary Glitter phenomenon and the "Do you want to be in my gang, my gang" scary impression on society phenomenon. It's subcultures gone wrong and insecurity of the masses to become a part of gang if they use the right words "wink wink", "nod nod", secret handshake and the dignity depriving use of the word wengerball (Grrr!).
Wengerball signifies the Gary Glitter of the internet football world.
Take a leaf out of Wenger's book, strive to be different, strive to improve and strive not to use tacky words. Wenger can do it born speaking French, I am sure the rest of us can.
Adam
Established Member
I question the bitterness shown over the use of a playful word.
It cuts down sentences of "our style of play" " "the way Arsenal play" and many others. It is not reductionist in meaning, but also useful for an Arsenal linguist!
It cuts down sentences of "our style of play" " "the way Arsenal play" and many others. It is not reductionist in meaning, but also useful for an Arsenal linguist!
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
Oh dear Adam. I aint bitter (which is what you get a lot of around here, someone disagrees and leads a reasonable argument and people start whining and moaning like Kids "leave me alone" and tantrums in high streets - any accussation to have your way) just shocked but scared of the subcultural clinginess that we use such an awful word. I have iterated it's inaccuracy and it's awful to use it because people haven't realised it much.
As I stated earlier that I find many people don't understand many other peoples post.
So my question extends to the point, consdering we have many discussions and arguments and disagreements about our play - is there any unique way of looking at the way Wenger plays his team.
ESPECIALLY, when he himself has improves his team?
Are we free flowing when our players hold positions tightly? We're only free flowing in attack.
The use of a word that many people don't have the same meaning for us misleading. It misleads and expects people to accept something illusionary or holographic and for people to make their own impression of it.
Meaning, there is no Wenger ball and as I stated earlier it's only accepting for people who want to appear as though they are part of a group.
Wenger will change, every other manager will change and every other team will play differently. It's heavily misleading and I feel only people who will grasp and realise the differences in play will feel that.
The fact is was used as a joke in the first place is deeply understandable regarding this, but the fact people take it seriously without understanding people's posts is awfully misleading and authoritarian in terms of of the reality of disagreement, argument and changes in opinion to the way Arsenal play.
Which is, if we all accepted Wenger played a certain way, we wouldn't discuss anything, we wouldn't talk about the players and we wouldn't even bother questioning play because hell, if Wenger has a distinct way of play why question it?
The fact question, differences in opinion and discussion of our play exists highlights the fact Wenger is changing, improving and learning from other managers - who have beaten us and from whome Wenger will change his game.
Not bitter, just highlighting a sub-cultural anomaly. That's never pretty.
As I stated earlier that I find many people don't understand many other peoples post.
So my question extends to the point, consdering we have many discussions and arguments and disagreements about our play - is there any unique way of looking at the way Wenger plays his team.
ESPECIALLY, when he himself has improves his team?
Are we free flowing when our players hold positions tightly? We're only free flowing in attack.
The use of a word that many people don't have the same meaning for us misleading. It misleads and expects people to accept something illusionary or holographic and for people to make their own impression of it.
Meaning, there is no Wenger ball and as I stated earlier it's only accepting for people who want to appear as though they are part of a group.
Wenger will change, every other manager will change and every other team will play differently. It's heavily misleading and I feel only people who will grasp and realise the differences in play will feel that.
The fact is was used as a joke in the first place is deeply understandable regarding this, but the fact people take it seriously without understanding people's posts is awfully misleading and authoritarian in terms of of the reality of disagreement, argument and changes in opinion to the way Arsenal play.
Which is, if we all accepted Wenger played a certain way, we wouldn't discuss anything, we wouldn't talk about the players and we wouldn't even bother questioning play because hell, if Wenger has a distinct way of play why question it?
The fact question, differences in opinion and discussion of our play exists highlights the fact Wenger is changing, improving and learning from other managers - who have beaten us and from whome Wenger will change his game.
Not bitter, just highlighting a sub-cultural anomaly. That's never pretty.
- Thread starter
- #69
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
jc8gooner said:
Hey I notice it all the time. I have a reconstruction prepared.
Hewmungis : I believe Cygan will be the next Thierry Henry. He plays a defender/samba role and can shift within that pretty quickly when needed.
Replies are usually :
Stepanovs Girl : I agree with you 100%
OR
Gladys78uk : Well Said Hewmungis
----
Later...
Stepanovs Girl : Cygan is crap - he doesn't know what to do and is caught doing nothing. I don't understand? Why doesn't my hair straightener work?
OR
Gladys78uk : Cygan can never ever play in a samba role, he is totally a foxtrot or a Cha-Cha Slide man. He is hopeless
...meanwhile at a Arsène Singh Wenger press conference
Arsène Singh : Cygan is the er... ultimate defender/samba er... footballer and I would also like to add er... people who use er... the word wengerball er... should be spun vigorously from their testicles.
Soler
Established Member
I detect bitterness, reggie ... 
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
I think bitter doesn't even come in to it. Actually bitter is a word relating to something else and that's an inaccurate word to use.
Like Eastenders is crap, I aint bitter because I hate Eastenders - it's just obvious.
Wengerball is a stupid term - we basically react to what is crap as crap.
Bitterness is like (lesson) when you remark upon something and go about negative behaviour, gossip, slander, conjecture, back stabbing to change it. That's bitterness. This is just highlighting the obvious.
I like laughing at it. It's hilarious but call me Saint, I have a very passionate concern for the poor souls who can't do anything more than use the dignity depriving word. Yuk!
Like Eastenders is crap, I aint bitter because I hate Eastenders - it's just obvious.
Wengerball is a stupid term - we basically react to what is crap as crap.
Bitterness is like (lesson) when you remark upon something and go about negative behaviour, gossip, slander, conjecture, back stabbing to change it. That's bitterness. This is just highlighting the obvious.
I like laughing at it. It's hilarious but call me Saint, I have a very passionate concern for the poor souls who can't do anything more than use the dignity depriving word. Yuk!
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
Actually I've just realised the hilarity involved here.
I'm bitter because of what exactly? That people are using a rubbish word to explain something that it is always changing and is excellence and world class in it's field.
How does bitterness come in to this?
Jeesh, and bloody hell! Wengerball is a stupid word. Come on, accept the obvious.
I'm bitter because of what exactly? That people are using a rubbish word to explain something that it is always changing and is excellence and world class in it's field.
How does bitterness come in to this?
Jeesh, and bloody hell! Wengerball is a stupid word. Come on, accept the obvious.
RocktheCasbah
Established Member
reggiepaul said:
He's right you know.
If you heard Liverpool fans talking about Wengerball (if they were lucky enough to have Arsène as manager) you'd laugh at them, wouldn't you? Be honest...
If there's any bitterness to be had it's in the fact that Arsenal's football can be summed up by such a daft word!
Adam
Established Member
The furore over a word, used in a playful sense, is unnecessary.
It is another way of saying "the way Arsène wants Arsenal to play"... any other readings into it are a waste of thinking and posting time.
I am a firm believer that Arsenal's football is a hybrid of styles, and something unique and special. So therefore, the word applies and is playfully aligned with his name. If disagreed with, then a word is not daft - but disagreeable.
It is another way of saying "the way Arsène wants Arsenal to play"... any other readings into it are a waste of thinking and posting time.
I am a firm believer that Arsenal's football is a hybrid of styles, and something unique and special. So therefore, the word applies and is playfully aligned with his name. If disagreed with, then a word is not daft - but disagreeable.
RocktheCasbah
Established Member
I'm gonna test that theory on my non Arsenal supporting friends and see how they react to it...
A
Anonymous
Guest
Adam said:
Au contraire! I find a lot of this is adapting to Reggie's way of thinking because in the past you guy's were using the word seriously in a pseudo-intellectual manner towards Wengers football, or whatever floated your boat.
It is a ridiculous word, whether used in a playful, footballing or serious intent.
The reason being, it's a joke and is used as a joke as Reggie has said in other areas. While you guys did and do use it seriously and that is seen in some of the reaction posts where people have bought to your usage of the word. I found it cringeworthy when it was first pointed out to me and I still do.
I do understand the furore surrounding it. People are taking it seriously and it is heavily misleading. If you read reggie's posts he highlights accurately how inaccurate and degrading it is. The reactionary posts from "moderators" is just an indication embarassment and saving face from people who used a ridiculous word extravagantly, as those with cheap status would.
oneteaminlondon it was a Charlton fan who told me about it (who was told by his friends) and he took the piss, a lot.
Adam
Established Member
The argument that Arsenal's football is too ambiguous to label itself Wengerball is the only argument i would concur with, and even that is undefined as we will always disagree on the aspects. I could just say - fast movement, fast and incisive passing, and power every time i intend to say "the way Arsenal play".
Not endorsing that Arsenal have something special and unique in their play, expressed in a meagre word, and being ashamed of it in front of other supporters is the greater concern.
Forget a word, this Arsenal side can laugh at Charlton! Take the liberty of always having that last laugh. :wink:
Not endorsing that Arsenal have something special and unique in their play, expressed in a meagre word, and being ashamed of it in front of other supporters is the greater concern.
Forget a word, this Arsenal side can laugh at Charlton! Take the liberty of always having that last laugh. :wink:
Chips&CurrySauce
Well-Known Member
Parlour Tron you are spot on. The fact is I have only ever seen this term 'Wengerball' used in this forum and whenever I read it I cringe with embarassement. People use it and they believe they are being intelligent but infact it displays a very symplistic and childish view on football and also a high degree of arrogance and ignorance. Although it isn't intentional it instantly dismisses all the other great teams, such as The dutch national side of the 70's, the great Ajax teams and many many more which have adopted the exact same style of football which Arsène also believes in.
Man if i ever mentioned this term to my mates who support other teams I'll never hear the end of it, they'd have a field day.
Man if i ever mentioned this term to my mates who support other teams I'll never hear the end of it, they'd have a field day.
Aussie
Established Member
Who gives a **** anyway i have only heared it used on here a few times.
