The tactics thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by say yes, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. say yes

    say yes To VAR

    Thought it would be useful to have a thread for this.

    I’ll start it off with this great piece by Michael Cox about how the balance of our front 3 didn’t work against Sp**s:



    In summary, he argues that if we’re going to play that front 3, then we need more creativity in midfield. Lacazette, for all his strengths, isn’t a Firmino and 3 DMs and 3 forwards, with nobody linking play in between the lines, just doesn’t work.
     
    Dj_sds -, Aevi, lamby22 and 3 others like this.
  2. Jae

    Jae Well-Known Member

    Difficult to say really but I think once we've got our full team back things will improve massively. Hopefully our players to come back hit the ground running.

    Leno
    Bellerin Holding Luiz Tierney
    Ceballos Guendouzi Özil
    Pepe Laca Auba

    Not the biggest Özil fan but if he finds a bit of form again I reckon he could do some real damage with our front 3 and fullbacks.
     
    arsmile and RacingPhoton like this.
  3. kraphtous

    kraphtous Unai Enemy

  4. zilfy

    zilfy Well-Known Member

    Agree, I think ceballos can be that link
     
  5. jmsmtthw28

    jmsmtthw28 Well-Known Member Trusted

    He's not wrong
    Liverpool's front three are perfect for their roles, if we want to replicate that front 3 then we need similar types of players.
    I think rather than replicate the front 3 we should buy a winger in January or next summer that can play on the left and then swap out Laca and Auba depending on the opposition.
    Creative left winger - Laca/Auba - Pepe will work much better for us imo

    As for our midfield, I dont understand why Xhaka is still a starter. Guendouzi-Torreira-Ceballos would be my preferred midfield rn with Willock getting game time in the no.8 or no.10 role when either Guendouzi or Ceballos needs a rest.

    In Defense we are just waiting for Holding, Bellerin and Tierney to be fit.
     
  6. kraphtous

    kraphtous Unai Enemy

    Wish Emery had the balls to play this team. Don’t expect him to but just once I hope to see it.
     
  7. Jae

    Jae Well-Known Member

    Zaha? He's been sh*te so far this season so could get him at a decent price if this continues.
     
  8. jmsmtthw28

    jmsmtthw28 Well-Known Member Trusted

    zaha has been ****?
    I saw him against Villa iirc and he was the only real creative spark they had. I would take him at Arsenal in a heartbeat.

    Zaha left, Pepe right and Auba or Laca in the center will be amazing.
     
  9. Chaoz_Enigma

    Chaoz_Enigma Active Member

    I personally think emery played a flat 3 central mid for sp*rs game is because he was too afraid of having lopsided balance. Playing a 4-2-3-1 next should be the priority. Having lacazette to drop off and play between the opposition back line and midfield(false 9) is not his major strength. I get why emery does that as he need some creativity in the middle as he was playing a flat cm 3. By having a proper no 10 whether as pure 10 or defensive forward-cum-playmaker, auba-laca-pepe will be more effective in their forward interchanges.

    The flat 3 cm will not work defensively once opponents understood how to bypass it by lobbing ball above or playing through the lines like sp*rs did. It only becomes a strength when we press high and cut off channels through intelligence marking like the beginning of oursecond half period where mentally sp*rs switch off due to us scoring late in the first half and physically they are not fresh anymore, which forces them to make a few stray passes or headless dribblings as they try to by pass our defence. But usually it doesnt work in the beginning as a mentally fresh good sides can outpass us and outsrun our press, therefore it still needs working.

    But of course the good points of our set up is that we can maximise luiz, douzi and xhaka's long range pass when we build our play. There are some good direct passes from the back to the wings in the game which led to a few key passes at the final third.

    Lets face it, we are better now as a more direct team with wide players forcing errors from opposition than a tiki-taka possession based team. We are just not that technical yet to do fast short passing, our assets are in the long direct passings and winning balls from opposition. Thats because we have decent crossers from our full back and long passer from deep midfield. And we end with clinical finishers.

    Sorry for the really bad english. Its not my main language being from Indonesia.
     
    krackpot likes this.
  10. Gegen Pressing

    Gegen Pressing Well-Known Member

    firmino is really a false 9 and a rare rare breed. Probably haven't seen one at Arsenal since Bergkamp . Anyway Pepe on the wing is so wasteful that he doesn't deserve to start at this point would rather have Ceballos #10 and Özil on the wing to get a bit of creativity- just like Liverpool -have at least one MF in amongst our forwards.
     
    krackpot likes this.
  11. BigPoppaPump

    BigPoppaPump Laca Respect for Alexandre

    Anyone rational can see Lacazette is no good playing the Firminho role and plays his best football in the box rather than trying to create for others. Just too many blind fan boys denying jt.
     
    celestis likes this.
  12. progman07

    progman07 Well-Known Member

    Bit unfair to comment on Lacazette playing in 'the Firmino role', when in reality, we have been rotating something like 4-5 different formations since Emery arrived.

    How can you adapt to any formation when 1) 80% of the squad has been replaced in the last 3 years, 2) every game there is a new formation, 3) every game there is a different lineup.
     
    Divided_Pie and #254 like this.
  13. Jae

    Jae Well-Known Member

    He still has the quality mate but he's been disinterested so far this season, walking back during counter attacks and all sorts. Palace fans seem to think he didn't get his move and he's done.
     
  14. say yes

    say yes To VAR

    My number one requirement for a new manager when we replaced Arsène was somebody who was comfortable using a two-striker formation.

    Having two elite strikers is the only real advantage our squad has over our rivals and, bearing in mind our financial limitations, it would be foolish not to make the most of it.

    Happy for Emery to prove me wrong, but I really don’t think a 4231/433 is the best formation for this squad moving forward.

    Lacazette isn’t a false 9, Aubameyang is wasted out wide, and our midfield is nowhere near dominant enough in possession to allow us to push both fullbacks up and keep all three forwards central.

    A 442/4422 with Torreira/Guendouzi in the middle, Pepe on the right and Ceballos or Özil playing central from the left would seem to make the most sense to me. Whatever he comes up with, I’m not sure I can hack Aubameyang playing out wide for the season.
     
  15. lamby22

    lamby22 Well-Known Member

    That bold bit might be worth a try. My only fear would be the positional discipline and trusting the player not to drift too far infield. We used to see it when Wenger would shunt Ramsey out wide right - he'd be all over the place positionally leaving us wide open down that side.

    We do need a Ceballos or Özil somewhere in that team as we do lack creativity at times.

    If Emery is going to stick with the 433 then Aubameyang should be the central striker. I'd even go as far as sticking Özil left wing as long as I don't have to watch Auba play there ;)
     
  16. YeahBee

    YeahBee Terrible hot takes

    We dont have ANY midfielders for a 442 imo

    And dont wanna see 352 either

    41221 with wingers 4123 it however you wanna label it

    A midfield trio but not with an ACM but a dm
    Leno
    RB cb cb lb
    ---dm----
    ----CM. CM----
    RW. -- ------- LW
    ------ CF-----
     
  17. BigPoppaPump

    BigPoppaPump Laca Respect for Alexandre

    Playing two upfront is such an outdated formation.

    In the days of 4-4-2 it was on the wingers to stay wide and create for the attacks, and fullbacks would stay back. But nowadays the fullbacks do the job wingers did back then and wingers are now a part of the attack.

    I can't see a midfield 2 of Torreira and Guendouzi not getting overran, you want to play Özil or Ceballos on the wings even though neither are good there. And Pepe is a forward not a 442 winger.

    Playing 2 up front basically means Pepe is resigned to running down the wing and hitting crosses. Our midfield will be outnumbered 2 vs 3 and our CBs and full backs are gonna be up against 3 attackers and 2 fullbacks. It won't work in the top level of football.
     
    lufere7 and ThlRama like this.
  18. Manberg

    Manberg Well-Known Member

    How about a 4-3-1-2?
     
  19. lamby22

    lamby22 Well-Known Member

    Did wonder about this and then remembered we spent 72 million on a winger.
     
  20. BigPoppaPump

    BigPoppaPump Laca Respect for Alexandre

    It just comes down to 4-3-3 with Lacazette starting from the bench. No one want sot admit it though.
     
    ThlRama likes this.

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