Jae
Well-Known Member
I think if we sort our DM situation out and get someone in who is world class, that then allows us to play an AM like Özil who has the talent to supply our front 3.
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The tactics thread
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Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Weliveinacrazyworld
A very, very well known member
I personally think Torreira can play very well in the DM role.
In terms of AM, the role of AM is diminishing in today’s football. Look at some of the bigger teams in Europe (Liverpool, Man city, Bayern, Real, Barca, etc), very few play with an AM.... and Özil is the last person we should be playing if we wanted to play with an AM. Thankful for his service, but Özil is finished and it’s best we move on from him.
Divided_Pie
Active Member
Long term I see Douzi at the 6 with Willock next to him at 8. Douzi has the ability to do everything Xhaka can (including long-range passing) better than Xhaka but he's a bit over-eager and inconsistent still so he doesn't set the tempo in possession as well as he could. He shows some ability to carry the ball and play higher up but I think he's best sitting deeper and would love it if Emery would play him there consistently.
Willock can do it all, he's good enough technically and he provides the size, mobility, and strength that we've lacked at CM for years. He can hold up against the press and he can carry the ball in to the final third.
Is Özil finished? That's certainly a question but I'm not convinced and he looked solid enough in preseason. Emery's at least come out and said there are no plans to move him. Would like to see how the front three perform with Özil creating chances at the #10 in a 4-2-3-1. With Pepe on board they won't be able to crowd the middle as much. He should at least be given a shot to see if he can be the catalyst in unlocking the explosive potential of the front 3.
I think both Ceballos and Torreira can be very effective off the bench - would give Emery a lot of flexibility to make changes based on the scoreline. Ceballos can help with possession and press-resistance if played deeper, and can provide more tenacity if played at #10. He's doesn't have Ramsey's engine so he's still not the "defend from the front" pressing/marking AM that Emery seems to favor, but he's aggressive. Torreira can come on and help hold a scoreline with his ball winning ability and defensive mentality.
I would love to see Emery pick a system, pick a MF and let them adapt to their roles and form partnerships. I get the desire for tactical flexibility but the players will perform better if they are comfortable, using their strengths, and playing with confidence.
Willock can do it all, he's good enough technically and he provides the size, mobility, and strength that we've lacked at CM for years. He can hold up against the press and he can carry the ball in to the final third.
Is Özil finished? That's certainly a question but I'm not convinced and he looked solid enough in preseason. Emery's at least come out and said there are no plans to move him. Would like to see how the front three perform with Özil creating chances at the #10 in a 4-2-3-1. With Pepe on board they won't be able to crowd the middle as much. He should at least be given a shot to see if he can be the catalyst in unlocking the explosive potential of the front 3.
I think both Ceballos and Torreira can be very effective off the bench - would give Emery a lot of flexibility to make changes based on the scoreline. Ceballos can help with possession and press-resistance if played deeper, and can provide more tenacity if played at #10. He's doesn't have Ramsey's engine so he's still not the "defend from the front" pressing/marking AM that Emery seems to favor, but he's aggressive. Torreira can come on and help hold a scoreline with his ball winning ability and defensive mentality.
I would love to see Emery pick a system, pick a MF and let them adapt to their roles and form partnerships. I get the desire for tactical flexibility but the players will perform better if they are comfortable, using their strengths, and playing with confidence.
I'd actually prefer to switch that around. Plus having Ceballos as part of the trio.
YeahBee
Terrible hot takes
If Guendozi and Willock become so Good that we can afford to play Özil they Will probably be bought
That is still some years to go and Özil Will by then have aged out
So we need to look for a new one.
G and W are not 15-16yo we cant count on a growth spurt, best case scenario they fill out some...
Playing a pure ACM like Özil is kinda dead nowadays
I hope that G, W and ESR become versatile cms that work well together and are wellrounded.
Gives us more flexibility and why I favoured a 3men midfield...
YeahBee
Terrible hot takes
Too small (and we dont have a partner for him) as one of the 2 in 4231
The crazy thing about our tactics and Emery is that he doesn't work on tactics focused on dominating possession. Our formation hardly matters if his main focus is to press and create chances from forcing turnovers.
Pep and Klopp are clearly a level above Emery, but a better coach could definitely apply a variation of their possession focused tactics to our squad.
We could easily do something similar to Man City's 4-3-3 with our squad. Douzi or Xhaka could play DM; Torreira, Willock, Douzi, AMN, or Ceballos as B2B, and Özil or Ceballos at CM. This midfield won't be as good as Fernandinho/Rodri, KDB, and Silva; but it will be better than almost everything else in the league.
Our front three will be a mixture of PEA, Laca, Pepe, Nelson, Martinelli, Saka, and Ceballos. And to continue with the Man City comparison, Ceballos is practically our version of Bernardo Silva, but right-footed, bigger and stronger, and younger. We can play him in almost any attacking position.
Our personnel is also why I think Arteta would be a good coach for us because it wouldn't be hard for him to implement similar tactics with us.
Additionally, we could play with a more conservative midfield with a 4-2-3-1, but that would mostly mean that our B2Bs would focus more on the defensive side of the game.
However, none of this matters if our coach doesn't want us to retain possession. Emery is a bad coach.
Pep and Klopp are clearly a level above Emery, but a better coach could definitely apply a variation of their possession focused tactics to our squad.
We could easily do something similar to Man City's 4-3-3 with our squad. Douzi or Xhaka could play DM; Torreira, Willock, Douzi, AMN, or Ceballos as B2B, and Özil or Ceballos at CM. This midfield won't be as good as Fernandinho/Rodri, KDB, and Silva; but it will be better than almost everything else in the league.
Our front three will be a mixture of PEA, Laca, Pepe, Nelson, Martinelli, Saka, and Ceballos. And to continue with the Man City comparison, Ceballos is practically our version of Bernardo Silva, but right-footed, bigger and stronger, and younger. We can play him in almost any attacking position.
Our personnel is also why I think Arteta would be a good coach for us because it wouldn't be hard for him to implement similar tactics with us.
Additionally, we could play with a more conservative midfield with a 4-2-3-1, but that would mostly mean that our B2Bs would focus more on the defensive side of the game.
However, none of this matters if our coach doesn't want us to retain possession. Emery is a bad coach.
Country: Iceland
Our focus isnt pressing and forcing turnovers either...
Manberg
Predator
I'm trying a diamond 4-4-2 in football manager similar to the one Emery used against Liverpool and it's working really well.
nick gould
Well-Known Member
The team that played against Burnley was quite good except for defending long balls. So I would go with Guendouzi- Willock and Ceballos in midfield. The boys worked well in midfield and they rotated a bit. All 3 can dribble, pass, and tackle. The only 2 things that xhaka has over Matteo Guendouzi are positioning and sheer physical strength and shots. Playing with those 2 help mask those deficiencies. Willock brings mobility, good engine and competitiveness. Ceballos brings so tenacity and can shoot from outside the box. I enjoyed watching them play together and if our team were to lose, I can console myself and say the boys are learning.
Front 3 I would go for the P A L combination. Let other teams worry about stopping us for once. Just give me that Emery and I may bring a banner to football matches " there is only 1 unai ".
Front 3 I would go for the P A L combination. Let other teams worry about stopping us for once. Just give me that Emery and I may bring a banner to football matches " there is only 1 unai ".
It will be three more weeks until we have two of our first choice back four. Until then, I feel our tactics are pretty much contain and counter. I like the Willock, Ceballos,Guendouzi midfield for the agility which will really be potent once our full backs join the attack and we have a CB who doesn't want to gift the opposition a goal every match. Until then, it depends on what Emery reads in his tea leaves at breakfast.
Mo Britain
Doom Monger
That would make him Unaique.
Manberg
Predator
Why do people assume formation and mentality are mutually exclusive? You can have the most attacking or most possession controlling team in a 5-4-1 for example.
Emery choosing 3 at the back shouldn't be presumed to be negative.
Emery choosing 3 at the back shouldn't be presumed to be negative.
Country: Iceland
I still have a lot of problems with Lacazette & Aubameyang combo and this is one of them.
Sometime you might see them sprint back and win the ball nicely. But most of the time they are just jogging around and not actively trying to win the ball back or forcing the team into mistake. There is almost never a pressing with intensity from them, just them moving in position, jogging in direction to the ball carrier, hoping he pass the ball away so they can start walking again.
Maybe its not even Laca and Auba problem. That points in direction to Emery, why in a whole year we barely seem to have got better at pressing.
Hopefully we will see a rise in performances in this regard after the break.
So having seen a handful of games so far this season what is everyone's thoughts on what our 1st team lineup should be? So many question marks, worth a mini discussion
i.e who would you have at CB, what does your CM look like, who should be starting at LW?
Personally having seen the squad options available to us until Jan i'd go with
Auba-------Laca-------Pepe
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Willock----Ceballos--Douzi
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Tierney-Holding-Luiz-Hector
Unless one of the Saka/Martinelli/Neilson show exceptional progress in the cups, Auba is unfortunately our best wide left player, massive issue right there imo in that we are sacrificing our best CF because of a complete lack of prem league ready LW's. Unless we raid palace for Zaha in Jan which would be a dream.
CM - I've gone for Ceballos surrounded by youthfull enthusiasm and workrate, yes there will be mistakes, but our other CM options have mistakes in them aswell, i.e Xhaka and Torrieria looks well off the pace.
CB - gone for our best ball playing CB pairing, if we are going to persist with playing out from the back, pinning my hopes on Holding coming back and finding form.
Full backs pick themselves once they are fit.
Emerys attempts to balance attack and defense aren't working, we are being dominated by teams who on paper are worse than us, honestly believe our best form of defense is attack with this squad, way to passive, not imposing our game on the opposition which is criminal given the potential of our front line, the build up play is way too slow and predictable, the players are capable of so much more, for the first time in the Emery reign I'm beginning to have doubts, hopefully Hector, Tierney and Holding provide an upturn in fortunes.
i.e who would you have at CB, what does your CM look like, who should be starting at LW?
Personally having seen the squad options available to us until Jan i'd go with
Auba-------Laca-------Pepe
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Willock----Ceballos--Douzi
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Tierney-Holding-Luiz-Hector
Unless one of the Saka/Martinelli/Neilson show exceptional progress in the cups, Auba is unfortunately our best wide left player, massive issue right there imo in that we are sacrificing our best CF because of a complete lack of prem league ready LW's. Unless we raid palace for Zaha in Jan which would be a dream.
CM - I've gone for Ceballos surrounded by youthfull enthusiasm and workrate, yes there will be mistakes, but our other CM options have mistakes in them aswell, i.e Xhaka and Torrieria looks well off the pace.
CB - gone for our best ball playing CB pairing, if we are going to persist with playing out from the back, pinning my hopes on Holding coming back and finding form.
Full backs pick themselves once they are fit.
Emerys attempts to balance attack and defense aren't working, we are being dominated by teams who on paper are worse than us, honestly believe our best form of defense is attack with this squad, way to passive, not imposing our game on the opposition which is criminal given the potential of our front line, the build up play is way too slow and predictable, the players are capable of so much more, for the first time in the Emery reign I'm beginning to have doubts, hopefully Hector, Tierney and Holding provide an upturn in fortunes.
Sniper Mik
Not a Closet Sp**s Fan
I thought that was the best, most functional midfield unit we've seen in a while but then Emery reverted back to type to shove Xhaka into the side.
Uncle Good-Advice
Active Member
Tactics? What tactics?
progman07
Established Member
In a 5-4-1 you are giving up a creative attacker for another defensive player.
90% of the time you are going to get a team that is more boring to watch. You really need to have ball-playing centre backs and minimum a Roberto Carlos to enjoy having that many defenders on the pitch.
Also, best form of defense is attack - if we had more possession the opponents would have less time to attack us.
