The Wish List

[HattoriHanzo]

Didn't you also say you'd rather Martinelli than Leao.

Look, I follow both clubs and I like both of them.
I don't think that one of them is much superior to another.
Martinelli is 2 years younger, he can also improve.
You criticize Martinelli for end product, can you imagine him with Theo behind him?
How much could he improve?

 

[db10_therza]

Haaland again is a good example, much more limited player than Leao, useless in possession or big games yet City adapting to him got them a treble first try.

See I’m starting to think this treble City team is getting overhyped.

I’ll put it this way, over the last 2 seasons we have been at about the same level, at most marginally worse. So what are we saying here exactly? That this Arsenal is on a level with “the greatest premier league team of all time”?

Another way to look at it is that City almost lost the PL to us (and really should have if we didn’t wet the bed) and they won the CL which was a) overdue and (b) it’s not exactly been the best vintage as far as CL is concerned the last couple years.

I’m not trying to downplay the treble, but I’m not sure if this City team is better than the centurions one, and by extension how much Haaland has actually improved them as a whole. Like yeah they’ve adapted to him now, and when he’s struggling in front of goal which happens to any player not named Messi or CR, the whole team struggles. Because they sacrificed teamwork for a maverick and now have more key man risk.

 

[db10_therza]

Anyway I’m getting side tracked. Martinelli >>>> Leao come bite me

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Would be ironic considering we were linked to him when he was still at Hull!

We were linked to him in summer 2022 too IIRC. His deal is really long though so he might not be gettable.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

See I’m starting to think this treble City team is getting overhyped.

I’ll put it this way, over the last 2 seasons we have been at about the same level, at most marginally worse. So what are we saying here exactly? That this Arsenal is on a level with “the greatest premier league team of all time”?

Another way to look at it is that City almost lost the PL to us (and really should have if we didn’t wet the bed) and they won the CL which was a) overdue and (b) it’s not exactly been the best vintage as far as CL is concerned the last couple years.

I’m not trying to downplay the treble, but I’m not sure if this City team is better than the centurions one, and by extension how much Haaland has actually improved them as a whole. Like yeah they’ve adapted to him now, and when he’s struggling in front of goal which happens to any player not named Messi or CR, the whole team struggles. Because they sacrificed teamwork for a maverick and now have more key man risk.

Yea the treble is huge but City fans said they'd been better in prior years before going on their run. They scored less goals in the league and got less points. While having Haaland helped them kill off some games quickly for them, in others he made them look like they were playing with 10 men. Pep also preferred Kane over Haaland for his playmaking ability.

 

[jones]

See I’m starting to think this treble City team is getting overhyped.

I’ll put it this way, over the last 2 seasons we have been at about the same level, at most marginally worse. So what are we saying here exactly? That this Arsenal is on a level with “the greatest premier league team of all time”?

Another way to look at it is that City almost lost the PL to us (and really should have if we didn’t wet the bed) and they won the CL which was a) overdue and (b) it’s not exactly been the best vintage as far as CL is concerned the last couple years.

I’m not trying to downplay the treble, but I’m not sure if this City team is better than the centurions one, and by extension how much Haaland has actually improved them as a whole. Like yeah they’ve adapted to him now, and when he’s struggling in front of goal which happens to any player not named Messi or CR, the whole team struggles. Because they sacrificed teamwork for a maverick and now have more key man risk.

I agree that City had better sides but aside from the usual margins there's a reason why this City team won everything. Haaland provides a lot of leeway to his team mates because he's the ultimate flat track bully for games where they can rest others, also draws a lot of attention from defenders at all times. He gave them a completely new dimension in attack which they never had and it's not a coincidence they got the treble when they signed him.

We seem a little one track at the moment all I'm saying, going back to your last point Ødegaard and Saka are great but both relatively easily shut down. We lack someone who offers something different, and at the top level it's not just more cogs in the machine like Havertz or 23/24 version of Martinelli.

 

[db10_therza]

Haaland provides a lot of leeway to his team mates because he's the ultimate flat track bully for games where they can rest others, also draws a lot of attention from defenders at all times.

Fair. This is probably an under appreciated point.

And I guess it translates to this conversation in a way. Basically the way I see it, even when Martinelli is off it, like most of this season, he’s still contributing lots off the ball which keeps the team as a whole grinding on. My worry with Leao was essentially- what would he contribute if he was off it? Would the team really suffer? Judging by his stats he’s off it a lot. And I guess the answer is the threat of Leao is what he contributes? Defenders would stay back because they know what he could do - he’d create spaces for others just by existing?

It’s an interesting thought. Basically we’re saying he has aura that will initimidate the opposition into submission.

 

[Trilly]

You can’t seriously tell me with chest that you are 100% certain he’ll come here and start pressing. We don’t know. He’s never done it before. Saying anything else is just nuts.

If he (or anyone) comes here then they’re serious about winning. If they’re serious about winning then they’re going to buy-in. Arteta even mentions that they discuss this kind of stuff before any move.

If anyone was joining Pep or Klopp nobody would question if the player would press. But because it’s a potential Martinelli replacement it keeps coming up.

Why does nobody talk about Salah, KDB or Haaland’s pressing?

It’s all overrated man. Our starting LW is on track for 7 goals this season and guys are veto’ing upgrades because they’re worried about pressing!

 

[db10_therza]

If he (or anyone) comes here then they’re serious about winning. If they’re serious about winning then they’re going to buy-in. Arteta even mentions that they discuss this kind of stuff before any move.

If anyone was joining Pep or Klopp nobody would question if the player would press. But because it’s a potential Martinelli replacement it keeps coming up.

Why does nobody talk about Salah, KDB or Haaland’s pressing?

Oh yeah, like IF he joins I have no doubt he’d press - Arteta wouldn’t buy him otherwise.

But he’s on the wish list for a reason innit, Arteta ain’t chirpsing him… possibly because he doesn’t think he would press?

I think we’re going round in circles now tbh

It’s all overrated man. Our starting LW is on track for 7 goals this season and guys are veto’ing upgrades because they’re worried about pressing!

Ps: I swear Martinelli is out scoring Leao this season? This is the what’s pissing me off tbh, we’re not talking about Mbappe ffs. Leao just does not have the output to justify the gamble on whether or not he would press. This conversation is ridiculous.

 

[Trilly]

Leao is very different anyway, don't think most people watched him enough to understand how he plays. Milan aren't a top team so he has to do more and basically bridges the second third of the pitch on his own most games.

This is what prime Hazard did, can’t dig up the stay but he was basically a one man midfield, taking Chelsea from the middle third -> penalty area more efficiently than some entire midfields.

It’s why I keep banging on about attributes and not stats. Martinelli picks up the ball in the final third most of the time, their roles are not the same at all.

 

[Trilly]

I think we’re going round in circles now tbh

No, just you.

I’m always 100% right!

 

[HattoriHanzo]

We just speculate here and that's ok.
What if?

Anyway, I never saw any reliable link for Leao to Arsenal.
I saw that PSG wants him as replacement for Mbappe, assuming that Mbappe will go to Real
Well, in PSG Leao wouldn't have to adapt a lot.
And he will go from Milan to Paris, bigger city, fashion capital like Milan, he would like it.

 

[Dutch D]

I'm pretty sure Dortmund don't want to sell him, only stuff I read is PSG want him as they're not happy with Donnarumma.

If he's on the market we absolutely have to be in for him, he's the best keeper in the world. Went under the radar because Dortmund are a) more known for their attackers and b) a bit sh*t at the moment but they'd be a midtable side without him.

How is he on the ball? Could be Dortmund don't want to sell him, the Dutch websites often report quite lazily. The Raya loan is only with an option, right? Would be quite ruthless to go for Kobel instead.

 

[db10_therza]

For the record @jones had pretty much convinced me that Leao was worth it but @Trilly has pushed me back over the edge.

Awful tag team those two. No chemistry.

 

[jones]

We just speculate here and that's ok.
What if?

Anyway, I never saw any reliable link for Leao to Arsenal.
I saw that PSG wants him as replacement for Mbappe, assuming that Mbappe will go to Real
Well, in PSG Leao wouldn't have to adapt a lot.
And he will go from Milan to Paris, bigger city, fashion capital like Milan, he would like it.

Yea he said before he doesn't care for London, Milan is superior in every way that matters to him, can't blame him for thinking that way either. He's either staying there or going PSG no other options most likely.

 

[jones]

How is he on the ball? Could be Dortmund don't want to sell him, the Dutch websites often report quite lazily. The Raya loan is only with an option, right? Would be quite ruthless to go for Kobel instead.

Decent, not quite Raya level but much better in every other aspect of goalkeeping. Amount of 1v1s he saves on average per season is probably higher than Raya in his entire career.

 

[Trilly]

For the record @jones had pretty much convinced me that Leao was worth it but @Trilly has pushed me back over the edge.

Awful tag team those two. No chemistry.

LOL

Jokes aside there’s a wider conversation on if it’s right that pressing is so high on the list of attributes when signing an attacking player.

I think watching City’s adaptation to pressing when one of the front line physically just can’t do it as well as the others would be quite interesting but I don’t watch football for that kind of crap.

 

[OnlyOne]

but I don’t watch football

We can tell.

 

[Trilly]

We can tell.

Good one!

 

[db10_therza]

LOL

Jokes aside there’s a wider conversation on if it’s right that pressing is so high on the list of attributes when signing an attacking player.

I think watching City’s adaptation to pressing when one of the front line physically just can’t do it as well as the others would be quite interesting but I don’t watch football for that kind of crap.

Yeah I’ll be honest man if you asked me a month ago I’d be speaking different.

This last month has been. Weird… footballistically anyway.