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The Wish List

Anzac

Established Member
Floating said:
Anzac said:
AW's failed experiment = no thanx.

:| Fabregas as an individual was a massive success, a genuinely world class midfielder at the age of 22 or 23 - it was the rest of the team that couldn't bring us over the line. He's certainly one of the greatest talents of his generation, and made a tremendous impact in the toughest position in the toughest league in the world. Sure he wasn't the greatest captain, as his head had been truly turned by his home club, but to call him "Wenger's failed experiment" just sounds incredibly bitter and unfair.

The youth project wasn't an "experiment" - it was a necessity to lower our spending while still being able to compete at the top level. It wasn't that Wenger said "Hmm, this could be interesting, let's see how this works out." It was more "We just spent 250m on a new stadium, and need to temporarily re-think our footballing model in order to compete."

Nothing against the player,
everything against what he came to represent & how the team & a number of players were f*cked over to accomodate him & AW's attempts to retain him, when the 'easier' strategy would have been to simply bite the bullet & do what was required post the WC re wages etc.

IMO AW's moving him to AMC without signing the quality required to play the 2 CM roles at the time ('09??), almost guaranteed that whilst Fabregas would continue to develop & shine, that we'd NOT be genuinely capable of winning ANYTHING. Fabregas' gain was to the detriment of the team as a whole, and we're still feeling the pain re player issues with the likes of Vela, Bendtner, AA etc.

Fabgregas was AW's Jewel in the Crown but for me the price has not been worth it.
And last summer was an utter disgrace re the transfer saga.
IF he DID refuse to play for us & forced AW's hand re a transfer,
then I don't want him back for that reason alone.
Further to this if so then I give it 2-3 years & he'll become every bit the arrogant egotistical prick & full of himself as much as those other
Catalan b*stards he now plays with.

As for the Youth 'experiment' v 'necessity' = fundamentally disagree in that we CHOSE not to exercise our other options - no one & nothing held a gun to our heads other than The Board. Like him or not Usmanov offered a means to clear debt, strengthen the squad, generate further revenues AND stay within our self funding model 3-4 years ago now.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
Dokaka said:
truth_hurts said:
Ozils good but Cesc is better in almost every aspect.

I reckon Özil is a better dribbler than Fabregas but other than that I agree.

he's more of a dribbler but whether he is a better one is down to opinion. Özil is class though.
 

Pea-Tear-Griffin

Active Member
Özil is also more creative than Fabregas.
17 assists last season, I think the most in any top European league. Injuries stagnated Fabregas growth and I think Özil has now surpassed him.
 

AFC-Phil

Established Member
Özil is certainly not more creative than Cesc.

Cesc is the best around (Yes, better than Xavi, Iniesta, Özil, Silva, Messi etc...) in his final ball (IMO). He's on a level of his own in this respect IMO, which is ridiculous with the other midfielders he plays with.

Both are classic final ball AMs. Özil is aesthetically wonderful to view, but in terms of spotting a run and executing a pass with perfect weighting, it's not a contest IMO.

The stat that floated around about Cesc being the top assist provider over the top 5 leagues for 5 seasons was certainly around for a reason. I couldn't imagine Özil matching those numbers in all honesty.

FWIW, It's touch and go as far as their dribbling is concerned IMO. In terms of keeping the ball I'd have Cesc but Özil's pace allows him to accelerate past his man. One is more of a powerful dribbler and the other more graceful. Özil's more aesthetically pleasing in this respect, but Cesc more decisive in my view.
 

Pea-Tear-Griffin

Active Member
AFC-Phil said:
Özil is certainly not more creative than Cesc.

Cesc is the best around (Yes, better than Xavi, Iniesta, Özil, Silva, Messi etc...) in his final ball (IMO). He's on a level of his own in this respect IMO, which is ridiculous with the other midfielders he plays with.

Both are classic final ball AMs. Özil is aesthetically wonderful to view, but in terms of spotting a run and executing a pass with perfect weighting, it's not a contest IMO.

The stat that floated around about Cesc being the top assist provider over the top 5 leagues for 5 seasons was certainly around for a reason. I couldn't imagine Özil matching those numbers in all honesty.

FWIW, It's touch and go as far as their dribbling is concerned IMO. In terms of keeping the ball I'd have Cesc but Özil's pace allows him to accelerate past his man. One is more of a powerful dribbler and the other more graceful. Özil's more aesthetically pleasing in this respect, but Cesc more decisive in my view.

Özil carried werder Bremen to the title and the team was pretty average with other players such as Marin being carried by him.

The point about him having as good dribbling/ball control is completely fabricated as Özil is a majestic dribbler whereas Fabregas is not.
 

Anzac

Established Member
We're way off topic here lads,
but just as a parting shot I'd like to say that I still don't consider Fabregas as an AMC/SS despite his last 3 seasons,
and I still consider him to be Xavi's heir apparent but more effective in the final 3rd as he provides the option to pass or score.
 

AFC-Phil

Established Member
Cesc also carried our team for several seasons. By similar logic, you could say Cesc 'carried' Adebayor to his 30 goal season in 07/08. Cesc got 17 goals last season to Özil's 8. Cesc certainly contributes more in the build-up play and covers more ground that Özil too. Not to mention Cesc has done it on the big stage, yet Özil still has several question marks over him in that sense. It's interesting to see Mourinho has dropped him for several Classicos since he took over.

Having watched both a hell of a lot, I'm yet to see Özil reach a level that Cesc reached in 09/10. He was brilliant in 10/11, but that's still a level below as far as I'm concerned.

Özil is a 'majestic' dribbler. Cesc isn't. That said, I will repeat, Cesc is a powerful dribbler. Look no further than his destruction of the entire Spu*s team when he scored THAT goal as evidence. He burst through several challenges because he simply doesn't have the acceleration to leave his opponent for dead. It doesn't necessarily make him a worse dribbler, it's just a different style of doing so.

THunter said:
Cesc better than Messi with his final ball. :lol:

Wonderful insight. Instead of just putting a ' :lol: ' in, how about you back up your disagreement (In the Ex-Gooner's thread perhaps)

RE - Anzac: Sorry, I didn't see your post. This certainly is getting a touch off-topic. Apologies.
 

Hunta

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Cesc is a top player, better than Özil, but like Anzac, I preferred him when he played deeper, he was wasted in the games against Barcelona IMO.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
I also believe that Özil is superior than Fabregas. The latter has been hampered over the last two seasons by Wenger and Guardiola's desire to play him as a quasi-striker. He's a more talented midfielder than Özil, but it's been a long time since Fabregas played as one. Then again, it's all down to expectations. We've seen Fabregas offer more than what he currently does, so you can't help but feel disappointed by his performances, whilst Özil doesn't have to live up to similar lofty expectations.
 

Hunta

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
AFC-Phil said:
Wonderful insight. Instead of just putting a ' :lol: ' in, how about you back up your disagreement (In the Ex-Gooner's thread perhaps)
No need for such an stupid statement, if you need an essay on why Messi has a better final ball than Cesc, you need to watch more of both of them.
 

AFC-Phil

Established Member
THunter said:
AFC-Phil said:
Wonderful insight. Instead of just putting a ' :lol: ' in, how about you back up your disagreement (In the Ex-Gooner's thread perhaps)
No need for such an stupid statement, if you need an essay on why Messi has a better final ball than Cesc, you need to watch more football.

I'd say seeing over 90% of every game Cesc and Messi has played can be classified as enough. Whatever floats your boat though... :wink:
 

kalleTheMan

Established Member
Özil is regularly putting in top class performances for club and country while Cesc doesn't. Haven't seen a top class performance from Cesc in a good while. World class players put in top class permances regularly, imo Cesc better find some form soon or he can't really be considered world class anymore.
 

Irish_Owen

Established Member
kalleTheMan said:
Özil is regularly putting in top class performances for club and country while Cesc doesn't. Haven't seen a top class performance from Cesc in a good while. World class players put in top class permances regularly, imo Cesc better find some form soon or he can't really be considered world class anymore.
Not only is what you're saying about Cesc untrue, the logic of this argument is completely warped.
 

jones

Captain Serious
Trusted ⭐
Cesc had a far better tournament than Özil tbh, and that's with with Özil always playing 90 min and Cesc not.
 

Vela

Established Member
Defensive midfielder - Javi Martinez (it's a wishlist), a realistic choice would be Yann M'Vila if not then Étienne Capoue.
 

mavelous

Tinfoil hat aficionado
Pea-Tear-Griffin said:
The point about him having as good dribbling/ball control is completely fabricated as Özil is a majestic dribbler whereas Fabregas is not.

Cesc's dribbling/close control is vastly underrated. Probably because he doesn't need to, and Özil diafts to the wings more.
 
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