They are called Referees and they are TERRIBLE

[Red London]

Love how so many people in this world think they’re logically superior for only accepting what’s blatantly in front of them.

Thats the behaviour of a sheep for me, it’s naive. Things are way too complicated in this world for everything to just be ‘as it seems’. There are myriad factors here and considering it could even be something small as unconscious bias (I’d argue with Oliver for example it’s conscious bias), you’re not gonna have any cold hard ‘evidence’ of it all. It’s more so from critical reasoning, comparing decision, eye test, and some complimentary statistics.

There’s certainly a spectrum, one side is tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists and the other are grass munching sheep. Not good to be on either side, the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

 

[goony tunes]

It only needs one if with howard webb is biased the rest sort it self out. That what we have been trying to say but you continue to ignore.

Howard Webb's predecessor, Mike Riley, was reported to hate Arsenal a few times. He was head of PGMOL for 14 years
However, there is hope. The new football regulator will be in place for next season. Part of their remit is any issues that affect the fans enjoyment of the game. The head of the organisation was meant to be one of 3 shortlisted but Kier Starmer who is well known to be an Arsenal fan and attends most home games vetoed all of them and found an alternative. My hope is they will use their power to come down hard on any refs and even PGMOL for any clear bias like we have seen this season. The dream is the new football regulator taking action against them for cheating, but I dont think anything so public would happen.

 

[Entropics]

Julian Alvarez ‘double touch’ penalty would now be retaken after law change

The controversy surrounding Alvarez's penalty against Real Madrid has resulted in a change of the law on spot kicks.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Jamie99]

Skimmed the discussion but I don't see why it's inconceivable that there's not just incompetence or unconscious bias but conscious bias or outright corruption in England.

It's been proven in Italy, in Germany and France and having seen the matches that were used for evidence none were nearly as blatant as Riley f*cking us at Old Trafford or even the ridiculous Martinelli double yellow.

I guess the word corruption is perhaps an "inconceivable" term in England and even more so very "alien" to English football. Someday the discussion will no longer be uncomfortable when a lot comes to light.

I watched the movie The Bank Job by Jason Statham (I also read on Wiki that a number of the elements in the movie were from a true life story), about how Scotland Yard experienced some shake up/down some time ago in the 1970s when blatant corruption was considered otherworldly until a scandal broke out that somehow created a chain reaction that revealed how much it had festered, and the authorities had to do a complete overhaul of the Police.

Maybe someday in our lifetime PGMOL will experience such a transformation. For now all we can do is vent as much as we can.

 

[Synical]

Skimmed the discussion but I don't see why it's inconceivable that there's not just incompetence or unconscious bias but conscious bias or outright corruption in England.

It's been proven in Italy, in Germany and France and having seen the matches that were used for evidence none were nearly as blatant as Riley f*cking us at Old Trafford or even the ridiculous Martinelli double yellow.

We're special in England. Corruption isn't a thing

 

[Synical]

Our 2-2 draw at the Etihad. The second half was the half in the PL this season where the ball had been in play for the longest. Yet Oliver found TEN MINUTES extra time because we were down to ten men and City needed a goal. Yet you have so called Arsenal fans arguing bUt wHy wOuLd a rEfErEe bE bIaSeD aGaInSt aRSeNaL? 'Biased' . It's corruption.

 

[jones]

We're special in England. Corruption isn't a thing

Not just the English to be fair, outside of Italy most Europeans think corruption is something that happens only abroad, in Asian countries with their snakey people or Africa where they have funny dictators.

 

[smashed]

Barcelona proven guilty of corrupting referees.
Juventus proven guilty.

Where there is money, there is corruption. Have to be extremely naive to think that it doesn't happen in the richest league in the world.
Or it could be a coincidence that no big decisions go against certain teams..
A lot of the dodgy decisions are in plain sight.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

It's the most watched / financially successful league in the world. It's insane to me to think that there isn't some level of corruption beyond the odd player getting done for betting etc.

I'd imagine we'd be shocked at the amount of shady stuff that really goes on in all the major European leagues tbh.

The last time I can remember any people in the PL getting in trouble for match fixing was in the 90's with Hans Segars, Fashanu, Grobbelaar etc and that went away pretty quietly. I very much doubt that was the last time this sort of stuff went on in the PL.

 

[Red London]

Skimmed the discussion but I don't see why it's inconceivable that there's not just incompetence or unconscious bias but conscious bias or outright corruption in England.

It's been proven in Italy, in Germany and France and having seen the matches that were used for evidence none were nearly as blatant as Riley f*cking us at Old Trafford or even the ridiculous Martinelli double yellow.

It's the most watched / financially successful league in the world. It's insane to me to think that there isn't some level of corruption beyond the odd player getting done for betting etc.

I'd imagine we'd be shocked at the amount of shady stuff that really goes on in all the major European leagues tbh.

The last time I can remember any people in the PL getting in trouble for match fixing was in the 90's with Hans Segars, Fashanu, Grobbelaar etc and that went away pretty quietly. I very much doubt that was the last time this sort of stuff went on in the PL.

Yep but people need the evidence slapping them in their face before they accept it.

We live in a world institutionally corrupt but 90% of people don’t zoom out far enough to see it. World has changed the last 5 years though, think there’s a bit more questioning of things going on which is good.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

It's the most watched / financially successful league in the world. It's insane to me to think that there isn't some level of corruption beyond the odd player getting done for betting etc.

I'd imagine we'd be shocked at the amount of shady stuff that really goes on in all the major European leagues tbh.

The last time I can remember any people in the PL getting in trouble for match fixing was in the 90's with Hans Segars, Fashanu, Grobbelaar etc and that went away pretty quietly. I very much doubt that was the last time this sort of stuff went on in the PL.

To put it another way, the players (who earn the most and therefore have the least incentive) are susceptible to various forms of corruption but the refs (who earn the least and therefore have the most incentive) are not.

To actually believe this is the conspiracy theory.

 

[Makingtrax]

To put it another way, the players (who earn the most and therefore have the least incentive) are susceptible to various forms of corruption but the refs (who earn the least and therefore have the most incentive) are not.

To actually believe this is the conspiracy theory.

You’ve just proposed a theory that officials are corrupt without a shred of evidence. That’s exactly what a conspiracy theory is by its very definition.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

You’ve just proposed a theory that officials are corrupt without a shred of evidence. That’s exactly what a conspiracy theory is by its very definition.

Nope, try again. I'm analysing the logic, not presenting a theory.

 

[Makingtrax]

Yep but people need the evidence slapping them in their face before they accept it.

OK so show the evidence of corruption that’s slapping you in the face. I’d be interested to see it bro.

 

[Makingtrax]

Nope, try again. I'm analysing the logic, not presenting a theory.

You’re analysing nothing bro. You implied that ‘referees are corrupt because they don’t earn much and have the most incentive’ It’s an interesting theory but where’s your evidence. That’s all I’m asking.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

You’re analysing nothing bro. You implied that ‘referees are corrupt because they don’t earn much and have the most incentive’ It’s an interesting theory but where’s your evidence. That’s all I’m asking.

You've got it all wrong again, I'm analysing the idea that has been presented to me that footballers are susceptible to corruption and referees aren't. There's no "theory" being proposed by me, I am analysing the above claim.

If I am not claiming something, I have no burden of proof.

 

[Makingtrax]

If I am not claiming something, I have no burden of proof.

That’s fair enough. For a minute I thought you were claiming that refs were corrupt because they don’t earn much and have the most incentive.

 

[Entropics]

Offside law changed after Swedish third-tier club’s pressure pays off

A Swedish third-tier side have changed the laws of football after their ‘gentle persistence’ in exploring an offside loophole forced officials to act

www.theguardian.com

 

[MartiSaka]

I’m not sure you’ve understood the premise of the argument here.

I will repeat: It’s not any one of these things in isolation that raises eyebrows, it’s the combination of all of them… when you combine probabilities with “and” you multiply them yeah, you don’t add them.

I think that Arsenal being even just 1 red card ahead of Everton is an outlier. You’re not really doing the data justice like this because you need to orthogonalise the numbers against explainable factors. So trivially, a team that has more possession of the football, you expect to have lower red cards per 90 because they commit fewer tackles. I don’t think it’s a linear relationship but if you plotted out % possession vs no of red cards I promise you the dot representing Arsenal would very much look like an outlier. We’re not Everton ffs, we’ve been one of the most attacking sides over the history of the premier league.

Similarly you would expect a positive correlation with touches in opposition box vs penalties awarded. So you need to normalise the data by this factor. And again, if you plotted it out, I’m pretty sure Arsenal would stick o
And the same is true on other end for penalties conceded. How many have we conceded per opposition touch in our box compared to the league?

Then at the end of it all you need to multiply the probabilities of Arsenal being in the bottom quantile for all those things and I contend it’s gonna be a pretty small number...

Maybe true but we havent been presented these numbers either to.confirm

 

[Gooner Zig]

Love how so many people in this world think they’re logically superior for only accepting what’s blatantly in front of them.

Thats the behaviour of a sheep for me, it’s naive. Things are way too complicated in this world for everything to just be ‘as it seems’. There are myriad factors here and considering it could even be something small as unconscious bias (I’d argue with Oliver for example it’s conscious bias), you’re not gonna have any cold hard ‘evidence’ of it all. It’s more so from critical reasoning, comparing decision, eye test, and some complimentary statistics.

There’s certainly a spectrum, one side is tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists and the other are grass munching sheep. Not good to be on either side, the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

The behaviour of respected institutions during Covid should have opened peoples' eyes to this kind of stuff - more people for sure are awake now but still too many NPCs who have their heads in the sand.