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They are called Referees

Are you for VAR or not?


  • Total voters
    130

lamby22

It's Not Lupus

Country: Scotland
Happy World Cup GIF by FIFA
 

Why

Always Me ?
VAR should be a specialist trained role not a comfy retirement gig for old refs. It's an ideal job to get younger people in to that area of the sport (not from Manchester?!) that are sharper and motivated.

I work for the guys who run VAR and I have had a chance to play with it during my induction into the company.

I will say every Ref has an Operator from our firm who sits with them and builds the viewing angles and tries to give them as much camera footage and angles as possible (generally what you see from Sky when they show all the different angles, etc.) the main issue is the refs interpretation of the law.

We need to phase the the refs at stockley park out as much as possible and use more tech. The World Cup used the semi autonomous VAR and decision wise it was fantastic. Heard rumours the PL will go that way soon.

I don't know if the issue with them is understanding the new rules or its just human nature to have a different view on whether the tackle was weak or strong.

Its a tough gig being a ref. Unconscious bias is a ****ing nightmare in any job, but in refereeing it really does cause huge issues.
 

Jasard

Forum Issue Troubleshooter
Moderator

Country: England
I work for the guys who run VAR and I have had a chance to play with it during my induction into the company.

I will say every Ref has an Operator from our firm who sits with them and builds the viewing angles and tries to give them as much camera footage and angles as possible (generally what you see from Sky when they show all the different angles, etc.) the main issue is the refs interpretation of the law.

We need to phase the the refs at stockley park out as much as possible and use more tech. The World Cup used the semi autonomous VAR and decision wise it was fantastic. Heard rumours the PL will go that way soon.

I don't know if the issue with them is understanding the new rules or its just human nature to have a different view on whether the tackle was weak or strong.

Its a tough gig being a ref. Unconscious bias is a ****ing nightmare in any job, but in refereeing it really does cause huge issues.
Interesting, would like to hear more about the VAR room
 

Energoto

Active Member

they seriously proven they corrupted if they reject that it'll massive help there won't be forgetting draw line and take forver.
Have they come up with an explanation as to why they decided against it?doesn't make any sense at all, it will save a lot of time, and is much more efficient than the offside line-drawing we see in the Prem....
Just screams "look at ua, we are the only big league not using it, we are so proud"
 

Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy 🏆
Trusted ⭐
Have they come up with an explanation as to why they decided against it?doesn't make any sense at all, it will save a lot of time, and is much more efficient than the offside line-drawing we see in the Prem....
Just screams "look at ua, we are the only big league not using it, we are so proud"
Yes its strange to me it worked perfectly and you don't need draw lines and make mistakes.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
I work for the guys who run VAR and I have had a chance to play with it during my induction into the company.

I will say every Ref has an Operator from our firm who sits with them and builds the viewing angles and tries to give them as much camera footage and angles as possible (generally what you see from Sky when they show all the different angles, etc.) the main issue is the refs interpretation of the law.

We need to phase the the refs at stockley park out as much as possible and use more tech. The World Cup used the semi autonomous VAR and decision wise it was fantastic. Heard rumours the PL will go that way soon.

I don't know if the issue with them is understanding the new rules or its just human nature to have a different view on whether the tackle was weak or strong.

Its a tough gig being a ref. Unconscious bias is a ****ing nightmare in any job, but in refereeing it really does cause huge issues.
Pretty much echoes my view from the outside.

It must be extremely difficult for all the refs in their late 40s & 50s who've climbed up the greasy pole that is the refereeing ladder (complete with individual assessors having extraordinary abilities to determine the careers of many), to suddenly adjust to a VAR reality and the commensurate rule changes, where essentially they have to reframe their thinking AND any biases get much more exposed. And, as you say, its a bloody difficult job.

We all know there are biases influencing decisions, because certain officials have patterns in their decision making. I think we've moved past the stage where racial prejudice was a clear factor (though there is still a disparity in decision making by skin tone of those involved), but unconscious bias is much much harder to resolve. There's enough evidence to suggest there is a heavy element of geographical bias, but harder to interrogate properly when so much is based on subjectivity, and the majority of officials are based in or from a comparatively small catchment area.

I do have more faith in Webb than Riley, and he certainly seems a lot more willing to shake up the old boys cosy club - I suspect he wants to get rid of more than he has, but he's got to wait until there is objective evidence or they F*** up. It was notable that as soon as Mason screwed us through objective incompetence, he was gone in days.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
Have they come up with an explanation as to why they decided against it?doesn't make any sense at all, it will save a lot of time, and is much more efficient than the offside line-drawing we see in the Prem....
Just screams "look at ua, we are the only big league not using it, we are so proud"
They are super resistant to change and habitually want to be the last to introduce any big changes, but they'll give in once the other big leagues prove it works. Just like with any other rule change that wasn't mandated beyond their influence.

I wonder how the officials feel about it?
 

Why

Always Me ?
Interesting, would like to hear more about the VAR room

Not my area of expertise I am afraid. My Job doesn't sit on the Operations side.

But for context with what I played with was the VAR system for Rugby and Football.

Imagine having multiple 30inch TVs in front of you with the match on.

You have a screen in front of you with around 12-16 Camera angles all on the screen, you can choose to make one bigger than the other. The VAR Operator does a mouse click for every pass, the mouse clicks are saved so they can go back to any mouse click. So makes it quicker for them to return to a previous passage of play quickly without having to go too far back. When they see something on the TV that looks controversial they have 3 seconds to react to it on their monitor, and check all the angles, slow/speed it up and find the best angles and create a video package which they can share with the referee.

Its incredibly stressful even in a mess about. I hate to think what it must be like in a Worldcup final. A VAR Operator tends to stick with the Clubs they are associated with and will follow those teams all over the World. So if you say got Manchester, you might have Man City and have to go all over the world doing their games.

One of the tests they showed us, was on a pre-recorded game where you had to spot the incident and find the best angles and make a call on what the referee decision would be...

So we watched a 3min clip and we saw a nasty tackle, instantly everyone starts finding the best angle and seeing if there was contact and using slow motion and putting a package together. We then shared it on the big screens for everyone to view... This is what would normally go to the pitchside monitor...

We all agreed it was a Red. In the match ref gave a Red... But what nobody noticed was that straight after the player who was fouled got up and stamped on the other players hand very sneakily and he got a Red as well. We were so blinded by the first huge tackle we didn't pay attention to the second.

Reminded me of the brentford goal against us where there was a 2nd offside that wasn't noticed. They likely focused so much on the first they forgot to review the second. I didn't get as pissed about it (i mean I was pissed) but I get how the mistake was made.

You can find some good images on our website for what a VAR room looks like.
 

albakos

Arséne Wenger: "I will miss you"
Administrator

Country: Kosova

Player:Saka
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

When you mention the 3 second period that VAR refs need to choose whether to act on it and then show it to the main ref, I can't help but think that there is no way that the VAR refs obeyed this rule when they denied Martinelli's goal at Old Trafford. It was more than 3 seconds from the goal and back to the contested moment. The "foul" by Ødegaard on Eriksen was a slight nudge of knees and those are rarely given in regular play.
 

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