They are called Referees

[PoleInGoal]

Okay, so, if someone is running to the box with the ball, you can put your leg or body or whatever in front of him no matter how late you are and don't hit the ball, and it is not a foul.

What if you put the leg there and your leg is in the air? The other player runs to it, it's their fault? No tackle?

This is pretty interesting. In basketball if you're even a bit late having any own movement, and not standing still, it's the defender's fault.

The VAR Gillet says there is minimal contact, but does he realize that minimal contact will affect the running a lot when you're at full speed?

Also one claim has been Havertz putting his leg left to hit Bissaka. But this is an assumption claiming to know how legs move at full speed. It could have also hit anyway. Havertz could have assumed his leg is already ahead of Bissaka as he can't see backwards.

Match Officials Mic’d Up Pt 1: Webb analyses key incidents from Matchweeks 1-4 in 2023/24

PGMOL's Howard Webb reveals the decision-making process for incidents such as Kai Havertz's overturned penalty

www.premierleague.com

Notice at 1:50 Taylor asks "Is there any contact." Gillet ignores the question, then in the walk through tells him there is no contact (not true), and then that Havertz has initiated the contact. Taylor decides within 5 seconds that its the truth. I do not think this is a proper process.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

They are two separate incidents. If you think they got it wrong/right on the Luiz one it doesn't change the fact they got it right here.

It brings a question to their consistency. Especially when refs and commentators swore Luiz’s was a “by the book” foul.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

Notice at 1:50 Taylor asks "Is there any contact." Gillet ignores the question, then in the walk through tells him there is no contact (not true), and then that Havertz has initiated the contact. Taylor decides within 5 seconds that its the truth. I do not think this is a proper process.

Obvious Manc corruption. Disgusting really.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Spoiler: Translating from Moronic to English

What did the officials say?

Referee Hooper: "No way, that's a collision, we don't give those."

VAR Salisbury: "So Onana goes to challenge the ball..."

Referee Hooper: "Goal-kick."

VAR Salisbury: "Just delay. Delay, delay, checking possible penalty.

Referee Hooper: "No worries mate."

VAR Salisbury: "You'll want to view this because I think Onana collides into it. He tries to go to the ball and he makes aerial contact with the Wolves player. It's late and it's clumsy in my opinion. Dawson wins the header, but it's late, very late in the aerial challenge.

"I think because the Wolves player doesn't head the ball, yeah because Dawson heads it, therefore it's a normal collision as they've both challenged the ball. Check complete.

Referee Hooper: "Check complete."

From https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66724505

Well, that was a dumpster fire of a convo

"Normal collision" ffs...sounds like something Saul would say if Tuco or Lalo ran someone over with a car!

Man, this is so bad! Especially on the Onana one. With that reasoning Schumacher almost killing that French player in 1982 could be okay!

Referee Hooper: "No way, that's a collision, we don't give those."

VAR Salisbury: "So Schumacher goes to challenge the ball..."

Referee Hooper: "Goal-kick."

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Was Luiz' leg in front of the Wolves attacker when the Wolves attacker hit Luiz' leg when he shot it and Luiz made no foul himself?

Anyway, Bissaka came for the ball, missed his tackle and got in Havertz' running path. So he was "in front" of his running lane.

Think the situations are similar in the way that it was the attackers own motion that caused the contact. But that is normally how you trip people, by just putting you own leg in the way. Havertz cannot maintain a normal stride as he is being squeezed by the two defenders and his leg hits one of their legs. You can clearly see it. Why that is then overturned? Only if a referee wants to overturn it does it get overturned. Had it been ManU getting that penalty at OT no chance in hell that it would have been reversed.

And no use debating if we think those type of fouls are enough for a penalty. If given they are not reversed. Cannot remember a similar reversal as far as I can recall.

 

[drippin]

This wasn’t a penalty in my book. There’s minimal contact but almost at hip level, and anyone who’s actually played football will tell you that’s no way near enough to make someone go down. Minimal contact knees and below can definitely mess you up if you’re running but not if it’s hips.

Was the right decision, but the wrong process (ie overturning on field decision even though there was contact which isn’t sth we’ve seen so far and probably won’t again for the rest of the season).

At hip level? The "minimal contact" is at knee level, how can you miss it? Havertz is going full speed so minimal contact is all it needs for him to fall down.

What happened here is that the VAR Gillet started interpreting how Havertz is running and in slow motion interpreting that Havertz wanted to kick Bissaka's knee.

But you can look at Havertz in this video pushing his foot to the left in his first touch to the ball, in a similar manner that happens later when he hits Bissaka's foot when Bissaka has missed his tackle to the ball and got into Havertz' running lane.

It is so conflicting for the VAR referee to say there is minimal contact in slow motion when that is all it needs to fall down. The referee also starts to interpret what kind of movement Havertz should be doing when is likely starting to get ready to fool the keeper, or take another similar touch to the ball as the earlier one, or shoot the ball in his next movement. He can't see backwards and might think he is past Bissaka. Which will naturally affect how he moves his left leg. These are all interpretations, while there is contact after missing a tackle, and there is no clear and obvious error by the referee.

What is ridiculous is how Webb is giving answers to the VAR talks, but there is no one to challenge him either why is this a clear and obvious error, and why a minimal contact doesn't matter when it's all it needs. It's like a politician gets his favourite journalist to make an interview so there are no hard questions.


These incidents are quite similar. In both cases the defender misses his tackle and because of it the runner hits the leg and falls down at high speed.


This is where Arsenal got a red card and conceded a penalty, when the attacker pulled his leg back a lot to hit Luiz' leg when shooting. Luiz is nowhere near the attacker.

 

[Penn_]

Penalty consistency should be so easy to get right.

The VAR panel has 3-4 people. Are we seriously expected to believe they can’t look over the biggest incidents from the previous week and use as a precedent?

 

[CaseUteinberger]

What I find interesting with these VAR conversations is that they contain so much interpretation of the players actions, like Onana "challenges for the ball". It is actually not a necessary statement. And how is the referee to know that his intent is to "challenge for the ball" and not just to clatter into the two attackers? Or that he started out trying the first and then ending up going for the second alternative?

If you start making interpretations of situations and players intent you can see things very differently at once. That e.g. Havertz does "initiate" the contact, even though he is just running in a straight line with his legs moving exactly as they do when you run.

It is so ****ed up and biased on parts of the referees that they themselves don't even see it anymore. 100% Webb and the lot are pro ManU!

 

[CaseUteinberger]

I can see some fines incoming...

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

I can see some fines incoming...

He shouldn't be fined for speaking the truth. Someone should be on the phone to Collina to try abd educate the refs.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Looks like refs are out in full force this season to rob us the league like they did last season.

 

[berric]

Looks like refs are out in full force this season to rob us the league like they did last season.

It's stupid any way you look at it.

Gabriel didn't even intend to pass the ball forward.

 

[Thrice]

I can see some fines incoming...

Love Hecky. Smart guy and wears his heart on his sleeve. Could listen to him for hours.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Looks like refs are out in full force this season to rob us the league like they did last season.

Still don't understand how the Everton player's actions is not considered deliberate. He tries to intercept the pass and catches it in the direction he is swinging his leg. He runs towards Gabriel to intercept the pass which Gabriel tries to pass sideways. He is successful in the intercept and the ball actually goes in the direction he kicks. It just happens to land at Eddie's feet. How this is not considered deliberate is not clear to me? I still haven't heard an explanation that makes sense to me.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

Still don't understand how the Everton player's actions is not considered deliberate. He tries to intercept the pass and catches it in the direction he is swinging his leg. He runs towards Gabriel to intercept the pass which Gabriel tries to pass sideways. He is successful in the intercept and the ball actually goes in the direction he kicks. It just happens to land at Eddie's feet. How this is not considered deliberate is not clear to me? I still haven't heard an explanation that makes sense to me.

I’d love to see their response. I don’t think anyone here can answer your questions. I’m glad it didn’t cost us the game, but it’s infuriating to see this type of thing almost every week and no one held accountable. It certainly affects our goal difference and makes every game harder.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

Looks like refs are out in full force this season to rob us the league like they did last season.

Thanks for sharing this. Finally a visual to complement what I’ve been trying to say about this call.

 

[A_G]

 

[A_G]

Mike Dean is going to be pissed he wasn’t around for this

 

[Riou]

They are never gonna get any better lads...



...they will always be like this.

 

[drippin]

Ugochukwu had a yellow, and made this tackle just before half-time against Brighton. I think Baleba got injured from it.

This Bramall referee didn't even whistle a free kick from it, even though it was clear Ugo didn't hit the ball at all. Even with hitting the ball this should have been a second yellow. But that's also a straight red card offense.

Not. Even. A. Freekick. Guy is watching it at close range.

EPL has no hope with these referees.