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Toni Kroos

Bloodbather

Established Member

Country: Turkiye
Of course, but they are also all benefitting from the exploitation and oppression of people in the countries the refugees are coming from. We all are, regardless of whether we want that to be the case so while I can certainly sympathize with the average European who has legitimate concerns about unchecked immigration, I also think there has to be some empathy and understanding on their part that the quality of life they feel is being threatened is one they have in large part because of the exploitation of other people and denying them the same quality of life.
I agree with the overall sentiment you're expressing here (and the previous posts), but I do feel that you're stretching it a bit too far, both with the caveat mentioned by a few others here about countries that weren't directly involved with such colonization/exploitation and how should they be coming to terms with whatever indirect benefit they're getting, and with regard to the extent colonization/exploitation contributes to the divide in welfare among countries.

There's no denying that colonization/exploitation is a key reason why some countries have been held back. Especially in Africa, Latin America, and Southeast Asia. But a non-trivial extent of the divide does come from individual differences, cultural differences and natural factors like the geography, flora and fauna, and climate of those regions. The risk of infectious diseases in the global south, which is a major development challenge, isn't just about lacking know-how or the resources to manage them, but simply the climate and fauna of those regions, for example.

I think we need to bring all the factors into it and differentiate between each country for a better understanding of all this. Terms like "The West, "Europe," "the Middle East," and "Third World" etc are simply too broad in most contexts. And colonialism/exploitation, while a major factor, isn't the end-all, be-all.
 
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Wright_I_am

Active Member
it? Think that team would've been battered by Slovakia.
Pickford
Trippier-Dunk-Stones-Shaw
Rice
Madison Foden
Palmer-Kane-Gordon
Bench: Ramsdale, White*, Branthwaite, Maguire, Chilwell, Burn, Wharton, Gallagher, Longstaff, Ward-Prowse, Barnes, Grealish, Bowen.

That's still a top team that makes Slovakia look like a team of farmers, at least on paper.

If you want to act silly and pretend that they would be ****e I guess I can't stop you from doing so.
 

jones

Captain Serious
Trusted ⭐
Pickford
Trippier-Dunk-Stones-Shaw
Rice
Madison Foden
Palmer-Kane-Gordon
Bench: Ramsdale, White*, Branthwaite, Maguire, Chilwell, Burn, Wharton, Gallagher, Longstaff, Ward-Prowse, Barnes, Grealish, Bowen.

That's still a top team that makes Slovakia look like a team of farmers, at least on paper.

If you want to act silly and pretend that they would be ****e I guess I can't stop you from doing so.
You missed why I picked Slovakia - the best of all of England's ethnicities combined needed a Bellingham 95th equaliser to get into extra time
 

Wright_I_am

Active Member
You missed why I picked Slovakia - the best of all of England's ethnicities combined needed a Bellingham 95th equaliser to get into extra time
That's just one game. Hypothetically they could meet again in 4 month time for WC qualifies and Slovakia would take a beating from ENG.
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
I agree with the overall sentiment you're expressing here (and the previous posts), but I do feel that you're stretching it a bit too far, both with the caveat mentioned by a few others here about countries that weren't directly involved with such colonization/exploitation and how should they be coming to terms with whatever indirect benefit they're getting, and with regard to the extent colonization/exploitation contributes to the divide in welfare among countries.

There's no denying that colonization/exploitation is a key reason why some countries have been held back. Especially in Africa, Latin America, and Southeast Asia. But a non-trivial extent of the divide does come from individual differences, cultural differences and natural factors like the geography, flora and fauna, and climate of those regions. The risk of infectious diseases in the global south, which is a major development challenge, isn't just about lacking know-how or the resources to manage them, but simply the climate and fauna of those regions, for example.

I think we need to bring all the factors into it and differentiate between each country for a better understanding of all this. Terms like "The West, "Europe," "the Middle East," and "Third World" etc are simply too broad in most contexts. And colonialism/exploitation, while a major factor, isn't the end-all, be-all.
Obviously there are other factors but the reality is that if you want to speak about development or a lack thereof, nobody develops as quickly under an occupation as they do without that burden. It's also hard to develop when there are manufactured conflicts in your country borne out of a desire from more powerful entities to pillage natural resources.

Of course it's not 100% down to external factors but there is no doubt that the intervention of external entities with profit based interests arming and stoking conflicts has either caused or exacerbated the conditions that lead people to flee. It all works hand in hand.
 

Bloodbather

Established Member

Country: Turkiye
Obviously there are other factors but the reality is that if you want to speak about development or a lack thereof, nobody develops as quickly under an occupation as they do without that burden. It's also hard to develop when there are manufactured conflicts in your country borne out of a desire from more powerful entities to pillage natural resources.

Of course it's not 100% down to external factors but there is no doubt that the intervention of external entities with profit based interests arming and stoking conflicts has either caused or exacerbated the conditions that lead people to flee. It all works hand in hand.
Yeah, and it doesn't even have to be an occupation for that to happen, sometimes you just get caught in the crossfire between conflicting powers.

Many of the problems Turkey faces today have their foundations in becoming a battleground of the Cold War, for example. We have an Islamist-ultranationalist coalition in power, neither ideology was all that powerful in Turkish politics until the U.S. provided support to fringe groups with such ideologies because they thought they'd be the most robust anti-communist force at a time the Soviets were supplying the far left in the country. I've considered moving abroad many times under Erdoğan's regime, so I could well be a migrant myself if things came together.

One of the biggest reasons why it's been so difficult for developing and underdeveloped countries is because there always are corrupt politicians that are willing to accommodate such external shenanigans and exploitation. Making sure that poor, uneducated people don't fall into the traps of such politicians is a huge challenge. The fact that such countries constantly lose bright, talented individuals to more well-off countries is a major problem also.
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
Yeah, and it doesn't even have to be an occupation for that to happen, sometimes you just get caught in the crossfire between conflicting powers.

Many of the problems Turkey faces today have their foundations in becoming a battleground of the Cold War, for example. We have an Islamist-ultranationalist coalition in power, neither ideology was all that powerful in Turkish politics until the U.S. provided support to fringe groups with such ideologies because they thought they'd be the most robust anti-communist force at a time the Soviets were supplying the far left in the country. I've considered moving abroad many times under Erdoğan's regime, so I could well be a migrant myself if things came together.

One of the biggest reasons why it's been so difficult for developing and underdeveloped countries is because there always are corrupt politicians that are willing to accommodate such external shenanigans and exploitation. Making sure that poor, uneducated people don't fall into the traps of such politicians is a huge challenge. The fact that such countries constantly lose bright, talented individuals to more well-off countries is a major problem also.
Agree 100%. It's why I go back to what I said a few posts ago about empathy. Those of us who are able to advance and build comfortable lives are often able to do so in part because of the sheer luck of not having to try to do so in such volatile environments. We could easily be in the shoes of those in developing nations or refugees were it not for the good fortune of being born into or being able to make it into a more stable environment to develop in.
 

BergMan

Leverkusen Ultra
34 is young to retire for such a midfielder. To me it just shows that he’s not willing to put in the work needed anymore.
 

Fallout

Active Member
34 is young to retire for such a midfielder. To me it just shows that he’s not willing to put in the work needed anymore.
I read the decision as fear of failure outweighing his love of the game

He would rather retire on top to protect his image rather than experience the gradual inevitable decline
 

BergMan

Leverkusen Ultra
I read the decision as fear of failure outweighing his love of the game

He would rather retire on top to protect his image rather than experience the gradual inevitable decline

If he is prepared to put in the work he wouldn’t decline. He’d stay in top Condition until he’s 40. But players who’ve made it often aren’t prepared to make the sacrifices.
Xhaka will still be a top player in his late 30’s to 40, wait and see.
 

Thrice

Well-Known Member
Euro 2024 Superbru Champion 🏆
If he is prepared to put in the work he wouldn’t decline. He’d stay in top Condition until he’s 40. But players who’ve made it often aren’t prepared to make the sacrifices.
Xhaka will still be a top player in his late 30’s to 40, wait and see.
You're in for a rude awakening. Xhaka's game relies on athleticism and those type of players rarely age well. I'll give him 1-2 more years at the top level and then next stop for him will be Basel to close the circle.
 

BergMan

Leverkusen Ultra
You're in for a rude awakening. Xhaka's game relies on athleticism and those type of players rarely age well. I'll give him 1-2 more years at the top level and then next stop for him will be Basel to close the circle.

Couldn’t be further from the truth. His game doesn’t rely on athleticism. Also, athleticism doesn’t just drop off after 30.
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I read the decision as fear of failure outweighing his love of the game

He would rather retire on top to protect his image rather than experience the gradual inevitable decline
there is no good time to retire.
it could be a couple of years too early, or it could be a couple of years too late.

He has already past his prime, so I won't say he is really feared of anything.
 

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