Tuncay Şanlı

[Mostarac]

Mate, i think many of us would agree that the French league is far superior to the Turkish league. There are some quality players who play in France, such as Ribery and Juninho. Moreover, there is a lot of up and coming talent coming out of the French league, who often find their way to the top clubs in Europe( e.g. Diarra to Real, Essien to Chelsea). So, its not as if he is playing in a sub standard league. I would say the French league, alongside the German league, is the joint fourth best league in Europe. Its not the Scotish or Dutch league, which is not as good. Turkish league is one of the weakest in Europe. Malouda has also won French League player of the year. Tuncay has played in a worse league for some time now, and either shown no ambition to go elsewhere, or no club of true importance thinks he would be worthwhile for them.
Malouda is more consistent than Tuncay as Tuncay drops in and out of games a lot more often, and goes missing more as well(as you saw against your Bosina). In some games you do not see him for very long periods, wheras Malouda is a lot more proactive and imminent for his side. Malouda works harder and has better stamina in my opinion.
Last but not least, do you not agree with me that Turks are not good travellers? In one way or another they seem to have problems where ever they go. Wheras French players in general are more realiable, and mentally stable.

The French league is better than the Turkish one, thats obvious. But, I do not agree that the Turkish league is even close to being one of the worst in Europe, mate. Its probably amongst the top 10 leagues of Europe, while the French league is probably the 5th best in Europe. Look at the Turkish league and you will see how many very good players are playing and have played there, its enough just to mention Appiah, Anelka, Ribery, Kezman, Diego Lugano, Ricardinho, Alex and many more. Even a legend such as Zico is managing in Turkey. Its true that Tuncay was not impressive against Bosnia, but I also wrote that he was being played out of position then. I do not believe that Malouda is more consistent than Tuncay is, also Tuncay clearly works hard for his team, I saw that against Bosnia. I have also seen Malouda subdued many times for Lyon, mate. For example, watch Lyon`s both matches against Roma and you will see that. I agree that few of the recent Turkish players playing abroad have done well, but there have been exceptions such as Emre, Basturk, Alpay, Tugay who has been excellent for Blackburn and partially Sukur(played well at Parma). That comment about French players being more stable and reliable is a bit dangerously generalising, I can name you several unstable and unreliable French players such as Dugarry and Barthez, but that does not mean that French players in general are unstable and unreliable. Neither are Turkish players.

 

[thegame24]

Dutch, French, English, Spanish, German, Italian, Greek, Portugese, possibly the scottish, tougher and better leagues than turkey

your having a laugh

Emre flopped

only turkish player to thrive in another league was Nihat yet everyone fails to mention him. If your gonna use turks in your argument at least remember their best player to perform and almost win la liga

 

[Mostarac]

Dutch, French, English, Spanish, German, Italian, Greek, Portugese, possibly the scottish, tougher and better leagues than turkey
only turkish player to thrive in another league was Nihat yet everyone fails to mention him. If your gonna use turks in your argument at least remember their best player to perform and almost win la liga

Its better than the Greek league, but thats another discussion. Where did Emre flop according to you? At Inter he was not used when the new management who brought Veron with them came in, thats hardly being a flop. I forgot about Nihat by a mistake, another player to add to the 5 I mentioned then, good.

 

[thegame24]

Emre has done nothing in his career now probably never will

Greek league is superior to the turkish league your a fool if you think otherwise.

AEK, Olympiacos and Panathinaikos are better than Fenerbache and Galatasaray.
and oh yea Greeks won euro 2004 convincingly with a lot of greek league players

turkish league is just above the cypriot league.

 

[Alfonso]

]No, I am an American. I don't think that one needs to be a member of the libeled group to be offended by bigoted remarks. And to say that French people are more "mentally stable" than Turks is definitely bigoted and offensive..

I did not mean it in that way, and you have clearly misunderstood me, or perhaps my choice of words should have been slightly more clearer. What i actually meant was that in general French players have more mental resolve to handle the big pressures that is put upon them in the dynamic and competitive world of football than their Turkish counterparts. From watching football for many years, I just think that French players are more professional, in general, than the Turks. Perhaps I should have said that the Turks are more emotional, and this sometimes gets the better of them, which makes them prone to rash decisions, wheras the French players are far more calm and calculated. Im not talking about anything other than what I have seen in football, so please do not think of anything other when I make these remarks.

 

[thegame24]

And as mentioned why the hell is Tuncay in that league still at least the others left

Oh and another thing Tuncay is leaving to go to a better team, Olympiacos have offered him a contract and he has mentioned it as a good deal

 

[thegame24]

and before anyone starts saying oh greek this greek that

I believe only one greek can break the arsenal first 11, Seitaridis.

Id take samaras and ninis as back up, maybe karagounis but i dont rant about them do i

 

[Mostarac]

Greek league is superior to the turkish league your a fool if you think otherwise.
AEK, Olympiacos and Panathinaikos are better than Fenerbache and Galatasaray.
and oh yea Greeks won euro 2004 convincingly with a lot of greek league players
turkish league is just above the cypriot league.

I do not even know why I bother discussing Turkish football with an Greek person. Stop pretending that you are not biased against Turkey and its football. Too bad that your fantastic league is ranked behind Turkey in European club football this season and the last couple of years then. Also, we are discussing club football now, not national teams. Galatasaray won the UEFA Cup, has any Greek team even won anything in Europe? End of discussion.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uef ... f2007.html

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uef ... k2007.html

 

[Lev]

Turkish players being 'mentally unstable', or not good travallers is absolute bullshit. How can you generalise 75million people as not being good travellers, just because there hasnt been a big Tukish player in your opinion in Europe. Maybe the last 10 years hasnt produced the highest quality of Turkish players, maybe those who have so far gone to Europe have not succeeded, maybe Sukur missed his home made kebab while in Italy. But to say the whole lot of them cant play abroad is bullshit, you cant label any nation like that.

Umit Davala did well at Werder Bremen before injury forced him to retire

Emre did well at Inter

Tugay at blackburn - one of their best players

Nihat at sociedad - nearly pipped Madrid to the league one season, and he was key to it (i think it was madrid anyway)

Altintop brothers in Germany

Basturk at Leverkusen - got to the champions league final and came 2nd in the league

Yes theres not as many successes of travelling Turkish players, but not many have travelled, and those who have havent done badly. Saying that Turkish players cant make it abroad is bullshit, just like saying any race of players cant make it abroad is bullshit.

 

[Alfonso]

The French league is better than the Turkish one, thats obvious. But, I do not agree that the Turkish league is even close to being one of the worst in Europe, mate. Its probably amongst the top 10 leagues of Europe, while the French league is probably the 5th best in Europe. Look at the Turkish league and you will see how many very good players are playing and have played there, its enough just to mention Appiah, Anelka, Ribery, Kezman, Diego Lugano, Ricardinho, Alex and many more. Even a legend such as Zico is managing in Turkey. Its true that Tuncay was not impressive against Bosnia, but I also wrote that he was being played out of position then. I do not believe that Malouda is more consistent than Tuncay is, also Tuncay clearly works hard for his team, I saw that against Bosnia. I have also seen Malouda subdued many times for Lyon, mate. For example, watch Lyon`s both matches against Roma and you will see that. I agree that few of the recent Turkish players playing abroad have done well, but there have been exceptions such as Emre, Basturk, Alpay, Tugay who has been excellent for Blackburn and partially Sukur(played well at Parma). That comment about French players being more stable and reliable is a bit dangerously generalising, I can name you several unstable and unreliable French players such as Dugarry and Barthez, but that does not mean that French players in general are unstable and unreliable. Neither are Turkish players.

In my humble opinion:

The top 3 legues(in no particualr order):

Premiership, La Liga, Seria A.

The 4th and 5th placed leagues(not much between them):

Bundesliga, Ligue 1.

6th and 7th leagues are the Portugese and Dutch leagues respectively.

8th is the Scottish league(SPL). Then the Greek, Russian and Belgium leagues(9th,10th and 11th). So just outside is the Turkish league, just ahead of the Polish league and the Ukraine league. Not that impressive mate. Dont forget the leagues of Romania, Bulgaria and Cezh Republic as well, which are not that far off the Turkish leagues imo. Apart from Beskitas, Fenerbache and Galatasary, the teams in the Turkish league are not that famous at all, mate. Zico also managed in Japan, and that is not exactly the best league in the world either mate.

No top Turkish player has ever made it at a top club in a top league. FACT.

You have to ask yourself why is that? At the end of the day the Tugay's of this world can play well for Blackburn etc, but that is because there is low pressure and expectation.

However, having said all that, Hasan Sas was a good player in the 2002 World Cup. Whatever happened to him?

Anyway, according to Myles Parlmer, Malouda is signing for Arsenal..:wink: If this is true, we shall see what he will offer us.

Edit: Ive only gone and forgotten all the Scandanavian leagues. Oh well, Turkish League just makes it into the top 15. :wink:

 

[Lev]

Emre has done nothing in his career now probably never will

Greek league is superior to the turkish league your a fool if you think otherwise.

AEK, Olympiacos and Panathinaikos are better than Fenerbache and Galatasaray.
and oh yea Greeks won euro 2004 convincingly with a lot of greek league players

turkish league is just above the cypriot league.

Dont be silly. What have any of those teams done in Europe over the passed 10 years? Greece won the Euros, (even though it was lucky as hell, but winnings winning i guess), but that doesnt represent your league. I could say that Turkey came 3rd in the WC, does that make the league of of the best? Not really. Your league teams show how good your league is. Galatasaray beat Arsenal in 1999 to pick up the Uefa Cup, and beat Madrid in the Super Cup. What have the Greek teams done?

 

[Mostarac]

To make an long discussion short, just look at the stats I posted, Alfonso. The Turkish league is better than the Greek league. And, an interesting detail, the Romanian league has been better than the French league in 2007, mate.

 

[Alfonso]

To make an long discussion short, just look at the stats I posted, Alfonso. The Turkish league is better than the Greek league. Nothing more to it.

Yes, but the Belgium and Cezh Republic leagues are ranked higher, and im sure you dont agree with that.

 

[Mostarac]

I accept stats and facts, mate. What do you say that the Romanian league is better than the French or German in 2007, mate?

 

[Alfonso]

This graph answers some questions:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/plots.html

 

[Alfonso]

I accept stats and facts, mate. What do you say that the Romanian league is better than the French or German in 2007, mate?

Stats or no stats, the Romanian league is not better than the French or German league, mate. Not at all.

 

[Mostarac]

Stats or no stats, the Romanian league is not better than the French or German league, mate. Not at all.

So you do not accept that the Romanian league was better in 2007, mate? Yes or no?

 

[Alfonso]

Turkish players being 'mentally unstable', or not good travallers is absolute bullshit. How can you generalise 75million people as not being good travellers, just because there hasnt been a big Tukish player in your opinion in Europe.

Im not judging your nation as a whole, im judging your nation in terms of football only. So you cant use the 75million figure for football. In terms of football the pool of Turkish talent is obviously a lot, lot less. How many people play football professionally in the top league in Turkey that are Turkish? 250 max. Out of those 250 Turkish players, there are prob about max 30 players that are even good enough to play in the other leagues in Europe, away from Turkey(leagues superior to the one of Turkey of course). And im not convinced that any of them will be a success at a big club, and history has proven this.

Maybe the last 10 years hasnt produced the highest quality of Turkish players, maybe those who have so far gone to Europe have not succeeded, maybe Sukur missed his home made kebab while in Italy. But to say the whole lot of them cant play abroad is bullshit, you cant label any nation like that..

When shall i judge then, from the 70ties and 80ties when Turkey used to loose to England -7-0? The last 10 years has been the peak of Turkish football, with your league being in its most competitive and healthiest state. And in all this time not one of your players has properlly made it big in Europe, with a big or even relatively big club. Sukur being the prime example with Inter. Emre is another example. Emre hasnt exactly been a success in the Premiership, so lets not kid ourselfs. Euro 96 was the first time Turkey actually qualifed for a International tournment.

Saying that Turkish players cant make it abroad is bullshit, just like saying any race of players cant make it abroad is bullshit.

I think the words were: The Turks tend to be not good travellers, yes its a generalisation, so sue me.Ive never said no Turkish players have been not successful in Europe, but the ones that have are rare and also, my main point, not one Turkish player has made it at a big club in a big league.

 

[Alfonso]

Stats or no stats, the Romanian league is not better than the French or German league, mate. Not at all.

So you do not accept that the Romanian league was better in 2007, mate? Yes or no?

No, mate.

 

[thegame24]

I seem to remember pana destroying one of the turk teams a few years back.

come on now, tuncay wants to leave and one the teams hes linked to is a greek side

i think thats enough proof of the greek league being better.

im not saying its one of the best in europe but turkeys league is **** face it.

i can admit the greek league is no where near standard of the the top leagues and i can admit the cypriot league is a joke.