L3T5 PL4Y
Flair Accuser
He seems to have forged a reputation on the back of accomplishing absolutely **** all. Emery on the other hand gets a raw deal despite having done a **** load despite coming from absolutely the bottom up against the odds.
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Unai Emery: Adios
- Thread starter Mo Britain
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Both managers were weird appointments when you have such big stars & egos at the club. Probably not got it right since Carlo if the CL is the main aim. Opportunity now with two free multiple CL winners.
Need to tell the kitman not to put the green one out there as an option.
2 important games in our season the game plan worked great until his own players f**k things up. Need to sort out in summer for the first time I saw him mad on the bench today
L3T5 PL4Y
Flair Accuser
Can't really blame him tonight outright but I think we could have or probably should have started a bit different with the line up and formation while he could've organized the team better after the sending off.
I'll let this one slide..
Don't want to start an Emery discussion but if he has come "up from the bottom against all odds", so has Tuchel. He's consistently held Mainz up in the 1. Bundesliga during his 5 year tenure - something that even Klopp didn't manage - and got them 2 out of their 3 best season finishes of all time, an astounding 5th and 7th place, something they achieved only once again in 15/16 with a 6th.
I don't think Emery's work at Lorca and Almeria compares - sure he got them both promoted and finished 8th with Almeria, but Tuchel took over a just promoted team and over 5 years established them as a safe top flight team. Over the last decade there have only been three other teams who managed to traverse from "elevator club" to safe Bundesligist. That's a respectable feat.
So if we're only talking "bottom" I don't think you can discredit Tuchel in favour of Emery and the performance at big clubs is a different topic.
Look, I don't even want to make this any sort of criticism or even about the guy because he's obviously done well at the smaller and lower league clubs he's been at, but there's a lot of over reverencing going on towards Emery. You don't have to make everything he did a heroic act and belittle what others have done. It's alright. He's not utter **** or he never would have gotten where he is now, even for critics like myself the question isn't really is Emery a good manager per se, but just is he good enough for Arsenal and where the club wants to get. To answer that question there's no need to neither belittle nor transfigure what he's done at all his clubs.
TheEconomist
Established Member
I'm still furious over the result tonight. No I don't blame him for us going down to ten men, or even for conceding our first goal. But I do hold him somewhat responsible for the way we just bent over and let ourselves get dominated by a second rate club in an inferior league. We as a team should be fully capable of taking a 1-1 draw back to the Emirates even with ten men. Instead we took unnecessary, stupid risks and consistently left ourselves open to devastating attacks for which Emery deserves his shares of the blame
I'm still content to give him until next December but this was very very poor today.
I'm still content to give him until next December but this was very very poor today.
The loss isn't on Emery, the refs screwed us over and some players let him down. That being said, he has to be more assertive on what he wants from the team in situations like going a man down. Some players were staying back, others were going forward to attack, and it left us disjointed. We have another game to pick them off where we'll be set to regain control of the tie, so Emery should have done a better job to set the team up in a way that preserved the scoreline at 1-1. That result was fine given the circumstances.
I really don't want to bang that drum and there's definitely instances in which ref decision screw you over, but blaming the ref is always the easy way out. Even with the red there's no proper excuse for the team folding like they did - all together, the players and the coaching staff.
I'm with you that it was a very weak mental display by the players, and that was my instant gut feeling when seeing it all unfold, and that is still absolutely true, but saying the manager has to be more assertive and tactically astute (=what he wants from the team) does very much blame him, and rightfully so. He made some choices with good intentions but which horribly backfired and the complete loss of structure and compactness along the inability of the team to find that again or counter anything Rennes did isn't just on the players. The way we stood open like a barn door for hungry wolves in search of easy prey wasn't just down to the players letting the manager down. He did fail to find an answer tonight and this failure was overexposed by the players failing individually, too.
Tourbillion
Angry & Miserable
Poor.
squallman
Still Pining for Wenger
I want to see what his plans are for the summer.
What he does with this lot of players will go a long way to deciding my view of him.
If its September 1st and any of Mustafi, Xhaka, Mkhitaryan, Monreal, Welbeck, Kolasinac, Lichsteiner or Koscielny are starting or even on the bench for us. I won't know what to say.
The mediocrity starts with them. Since people on here love their Klopp comparisons, I'll make one too. Klopp couldn't build his Liverpool side until he got rid of jokers like Skrtel, Lucas, Mignolet and consigned Sturridge to the bench. Three of the 4 were fan favourites mind you.
What he does with this lot of players will go a long way to deciding my view of him.
If its September 1st and any of Mustafi, Xhaka, Mkhitaryan, Monreal, Welbeck, Kolasinac, Lichsteiner or Koscielny are starting or even on the bench for us. I won't know what to say.
The mediocrity starts with them. Since people on here love their Klopp comparisons, I'll make one too. Klopp couldn't build his Liverpool side until he got rid of jokers like Skrtel, Lucas, Mignolet and consigned Sturridge to the bench. Three of the 4 were fan favourites mind you.
Dregen57
Active Member
Liverpool have still not won anything under Klopp. But they've used a lot of money
nick gould
Well-Known Member
But he still could have done better with 10 men. There was no structure up there. A diamond midfield would have worked after he introduced Matteo but they seemed to run all over the place like headless chickens. No specific zones to defend or attack.
TheEconomist
Established Member
Completely agree. I don't understand how anyone can say it isn't Emery's fault, but at the same time acknowledge that he should have adapted better to the sending off. Surely that puts him at fault ?
Also on the referees, yes they make mistakes, they make mistakes against every team at some point or another. In an isolated game it's fine to blame the referees for an individual result. The fact is we didn't adapt to the situation, and we let ourselves be dominated by an inferior team yesterday. Yes it was maybe unfair to go down to 10 men , but that isn't an excuse to completely fail to adapt and give them free reign to tear us apart.
Hearing these excuses about poor refereeing is getting really tiresome. The referees aren't out to get us, they don't hate us. They aren't the reason we've been going backwards for over 10 years. Every team has bad decisions made against them. You deal with it and move on
There are levels to accountability, and I think the players and refs are more responsible for our last two results than Emery is. As I said, he could have done better, but he also did plenty right imo. The weird conditions that played out in the games don't define his quality.
What I responded to @Toby Andrl answers your post, but I also want to add that I think you're talking some rubbish here and really downplaying how screwed over we were.
Against Tottenham, 2 red cards should have been handed out apiece and we were the only ones to get one. And their goal shouldn't even have stood. And our pen should have been retaken because Vertonghen was way in the box when the pen was taken and was subsequently able to put in a block.
Against Rennes, we should have gone 2-0 up. And Sokratis shouldn't have been sent off, which means we have 11 men and they don't score their first goal. And Sarr should have been sent off for simulating twice.
That's an insane amount of calls to get wrong, and huge calls at that. Saying the referees got things wrong isn't an excuse as much as a call for accountability, it's ridiculous that this was allowed to happen. Then when we had opportunities to take games anyways, which is to Emery's credit, players like Aubameyang, Lacazette, Mustafi, Monreal, and Guendouzi let the team down by not doing their jobs. Blaming Emery is very nitpicky, he could always do better but he can only do so much.
Maybe we just need to find our Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
tap-in
Nothing Wrong With Me
You better start thinking what to say, I think Kos will be here as he's a useful CB to have and I don't see Mhki going anywhere unless someone comes in with a good offer. Also if Monreal moves I think Kola would stay and fight for the spot with a new signing. The rest, I agree, they should go, Lichtsteiner will be out of contract anyway so he's definitely gone.
TheEconomist
Established Member
Thank you for the response. Apologies if you thought I was talking rubbish
In my opinion you can take a view in whether the refereeing decisions incorrectly affected the outcome, but it's all theoretical. What's actually important is how we respond to the poor refereeing calls
On your first point, it seems like you've grouped our last two performances together. In my opinion our last two performances are the complete opposites of each other. I actually think Emery did a good job setting the team up against Sp**s. As you correctly pointed out, we suffered from some bad refereeing calls. However we kept playing our game and created some good chances, and it isn't unreasonable to say that we probably would have won if those mistakes been made refereeing hadn't.
The difference with the Sp**s game and the Rennes game is that team didn't let the bad decisions affect their mentality and drop their heads, and we have to give Emery and the players credit for that.
With Rennes however, Sokratis supposedly got a soft red card (although I've heard that he had a another challenge or two go unfinished prior to the second yellow). We can't do anything about that. Refereeing decisions are completely out of our control and nothing we can do or say can change a decision that's been made. But given that a red card was given, we should have adapted so much better to it. You said that blaming Emery was very nitpicky but I respectfully disagree. I think there was so much more he could have done to help the team deal with.
We had mhikitaryan playing at right back, we had Özil wandering around in a game were we needed more depth to our midfield, we had Monreal exposed and beaten by their attack constantly.
We had our players recklessly overcommitting to try and score and an unnecessary goal. Even after we conceded our third goal we overcommitted in attack and risked conceding a fourth in the exact same fashion as we conceded the forth. We should have managed the game so much better and Emery should have adapted to the situation he was in much better than he did.
I'm sorry but to say that Emery wasn't at fault is just not true. Emery is the manager and ultimately responsible for the performance that is delivered on the pitch. Its up to him to give instructions to the players, and it's up to him to ensure they follow those instructions. If he can't do that then it isn't the players letting him down, it's him not doing his job as a manager. You've admitted yourself that he should have set the team up to take a 1-1 draw and he should have done better, but at the same time you say it's very nitpicky to blame Emery? Your argument seems very inconsistent.
squallman
Still Pining for Wenger
That is what I'm afraid of. We cling to our players like we just made the CL final and lost out on the title on goal difference.
This lot has finished outside of the top 4 for two seasons in a row, far off first place and routinely get embarrassed in various matches.
We shouldn't be afraid of a clear out. What has this lot done that they should be allowed to stay at the club? Stability and changing things bit by bit hasn't done anything for us. I say we rip the band aid off and address all of our problems in the summer. Other clubs have big upheavals in playing staff, we can do the same.
None of this, solve two problems then go well that will do until next summer. That kind of lousy team building has led to Emery not knowing who to play at RB and saw Wenger trying to fit square pegs into round holes for years.
Get rid of the jokers, buy the players we need and go again next season. Sounds too simple? Too Fifa/FM? Sanhelli and the guys at the club make millions. Maybe they should earn that money for once.
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