Unai Emery: Adios

[Football Manager]

Wenger on his tactical philosophy (3:53 to 4:42)

Players on the difference between Emery and Wenger:

From Lacazette:
"There's a lot of difference. We work tactically more, we do more video as well”

From Bellerin:
“Arsène Wenger was a manager that led a lot of inspiration from the players. He gave you a lot of freedom. Unai Emery is a bit more tactical. “

From Ramsey:
“He’s (Emery) a lot more detailed on the opposition and we are playing different styles and trying to press a lot higher up the pitch“

Fabregas on the difference between Arsenal and Barcelona:
“I’ve learned a lot tactically, personally. I know my position on the pitch a lot more. Before I was free to do whatever on the pitch at Arsenal, and I wasn’t tactically good.”

And now take a look at some modern tactics, which each single movement on the pitch is well planned.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

No one cares.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Wenger on his tactical philosophy (3:53 to 4:42)

Players on the difference between Emery and Wenger:

From Lacazette:
"There's a lot of difference. We work tactically more, we do more video as well”

From Bellerin:
“Arsène Wenger was a manager that led a lot of inspiration from the players. He gave you a lot of freedom. Unai Emery is a bit more tactical. “

From Ramsey:
“He’s (Emery) a lot more detailed on the opposition and we are playing different styles and trying to press a lot higher up the pitch“

Fabregas on the difference between Arsenal (under Wenger) and Barcelona (under Guardiola):
“I’ve learned a lot tactically, personally. I know my position on the pitch a lot more. Before I was free to do whatever on the pitch at Arsenal, and I wasn’t tactically good.”

And now take a look at some modern tactics, which each single movement on the pitch is well planned.

Interesting section you highlighted. I like the bit where he says "that's why you have great players and less great players". I feel he puts the onus on the players to make decisions having as he says given them the ability to make those correct decisions. The thing I feel is true is that Wenger focused more on his players and less on the opposition. Sadly atm, we have less great players that all the tactics in the world can't help. Example-how much training does Kolasinac need to look up and cross the ball into a decent area of the opposition penalty box? Our problem is simple. We have a disinterested owner and some the poorest collective I've ever seen pull on the Arsenal shirt.

 

[RacingPhoton]

Lampard appointed as Chelsea manager. Great to see a top oligarch spending side taking a chance on an untried manager.

1 year in the championship is probably less experience than being assistant to the guy who wins the premier league 2 years running.

Shame the board were unwilling to take a punt on iPad man last year. The few of us on here who wanted him were well in the minority though.

Good move by Chelsea to make Lampard as manager. But we can't really compare it with Arsenal situation. Even of Chelsea mess up, they have enough money to rise again. Arsenal needed stability at that time. If we stay out of top 4 for next two years, I don't see us come back anytime sooner.

 

[Football Manager]

Interesting section you highlighted. I like the bit where he says "that's why you have great players and less great players". I feel he puts the onus on the players to make decisions having as he says given them the ability to make those correct decisions. The thing I feel is true is that Wenger focused more on his players and less on the opposition. Sadly atm, we have less great players that all the tactics in the world can't help. Example-how much training does Kolasinac need to look up and cross the ball into a decent area of the opposition penalty box? Our problem is simple. We have a disinterested owner and some the poorest collective I've ever seen pull on the Arsenal shirt.

And that has no place in modern tactics, which every play is so well calculated.
No matter how great or how much chemistry your players have, you will take a second to locate where your teammates are, and that adds up.

When I watch klopp’s Dortmund or guardiola’s Barcelona, a lot of the time the players don’t even need to look up and they know by heart where their teammates are.

Darren Burgess:
“Arsène would look at the totality whereas Unai breaks down a lot of different movements and aspects of the game. Arsène’s training sessions were more possession and game based. Unai has that but also breaks down different aspects, be they set plays, throw-ins, moving the ball from this area to that.”

Cech:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nc...nt-of-Arsène-wenger-and-unai-emery/vi-BBSDKKZ

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

And that has no place in modern tactics, which very play is so well planned. No matter how great or how much chemistry your players have, it’s normal to take a second to locate where your teammates are, and that adds up in the whole play.

Back in the day, our on pitch patterns and triangles had even the most anti Arsenal pundit drooling. Our players were positionally astute and knew how to make the right decisions. We have poor players now and that's the problem. Both our FB's still bomb forward at the same time-and PL player should need to be coached to look across the pitch. Torreira did well to cover that at the start but got worse as the season went on despite our master tactician.

 

[Football Manager]

Back in the day, our on pitch patterns and triangles had even the most anti Arsenal pundit drooling. Our players were positionally astute and knew how to make the right decisions. We have poor players now and that's the problem. Both our FB's still bomb forward at the same time-and PL player should need to be coached to look across the pitch. Torreira did well to cover that at the start but got worse as the season went on despite our master tactician.

I’m not saying Emery is great, he is no klopp or guardiola for sure, but you do see him focus on tactical details and make constant tactical changes just like any modern managers would do.

I’ve post a video on my previous post and you can see how much calculations were going into those plays.How deep can Emery goes into calculating that would make how good/bad a tactician he is.

Having someone who has a sense of modern football is a big step forward than doing no tactics at all, because it doesn’t work since 2009.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

I’m not saying Emery is great, he is no klopp or guardiola for sure, but you do see him focus on tactical details and make constant tactical changes just like any modern managers would do. How deep he goes into calculating that would make how good/bad a tactician he is.

I'll give him this season. I think his tactics have been overrated as he got a lot of love for his second half subs that won us points early on the season. There were too many times when he and the players looked clueless. He is very tactical but to me, he's like a conductor who starts playing one piece and switches midway to another.

 

[Fewtch]

Darren Burgess:
“Arsène would look at the totality whereas Unai breaks down a lot of different movements and aspects of the game. Arsène’s training sessions were more possession and game based. Unai has that but also breaks down different aspects, be they set plays, throw-ins, moving the ball from this area to that.”

That’s funny because we’ve gone from being a league average team in shot creation from set plays under the tactically inept Wenger to the worst team in the league under the tactical genius Emery.
https://theshortfuse.sbnation.com/2...production-mesut-Özil-granit-xhaka-unai-emery

 

[Divided_Pie]

I’m not saying Emery is great, he is no klopp or guardiola for sure, but you do see him focus on tactical details and make constant tactical changes just like any modern managers would do.

Just because a manager is focused on tactics doesn't mean he's a good tactician.

Emery's #1 failure as a manager is that he sets his players up for failure by not playing his team to their individual strengths.

His #2 failure is that he is ego-driven to a fault and believes his tactics are more important than the players themselves.

These are the two biggest differences between Emery and Wenger. Stylistically and philosophically I prefer Wenger's approach... I prefer chaos over order, improvisation over composition, instincts over execution. The results won't be as consistent but they will be more beautiful and the potential is greater.

My personal belief is that tactics and effort can make a poor team average or an average team good, but they cannot on their own make a good team great. I can certainly concede that in the modern game you cannot succeed without a proper tactical approach. However, for a team that wants to go from good to great, which should be Arsenal's ambition, it's not enough.

Thierry Henry on playing for Barcelona under Pep Guardiola: "He puts everything in place to get the ball up to the final third of the pitch and then trusts his team to finish the job in the only area of the field that can’t be planned for." My sense of Emery is he wants to control every aspect of play up to and including the final shot on goal. He doesn't just want the team to score, he wants the team to score HIS WAY.

Going back to Emery's #1 failure, Arsenal's recruitment limitations mean that they will have players with clear faults and limitations. That means that those players must be put in positions where they can play to their strengths and minimize the amount of time that their weaknesses are exposed.

You have a team where you have a LB (Kola) who can't defend being covered by a CM (Xhaka) without mobility. You have an inverted winger (Iwobi) who is a poor finisher. You have a CB (Mustafi) prone to rash challenges who is constantly put in 1V1 situations due to a high line and both fullbacks pushed all the way up the pitch. You have a classic #10 who is asked to man-mark the opposing #6 as his primary directive. The list goes on. Yes, it would help to have different players, but again, Arsenal have a limited capacity to recruit - having a manager that cannot shape his tactics to the strengths of his players is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Makingtrax]

Good move by Chelsea to make Lampard as manager. But we can't really compare it with Arsenal situation. Even of Chelsea mess up, they have enough money to rise again. Arsenal needed stability at that time. If we stay out of top 4 for next two years, I don't see us come back anytime sooner.

You make a good point about Chelsea able to make a riskier strategy.

 

[Makingtrax]

Wenger on his tactical philosophy (3:53 to 4:42)

Players on the difference between Emery and Wenger:

From Lacazette:
"There's a lot of difference. We work tactically more, we do more video as well”

From Bellerin:
“Arsène Wenger was a manager that led a lot of inspiration from the players. He gave you a lot of freedom. Unai Emery is a bit more tactical. “

From Ramsey:
“He’s (Emery) a lot more detailed on the opposition and we are playing different styles and trying to press a lot higher up the pitch“

Fabregas on the difference between Arsenal and Barcelona:
“I’ve learned a lot tactically, personally. I know my position on the pitch a lot more. Before I was free to do whatever on the pitch at Arsenal, and I wasn’t tactically good.”

And now take a look at some modern tactics, which each single movement on the pitch is well planned.

There are no right tactics, all methods have their pros and cons. Too prescriptive and players lose creativity, too relaxed and players wander out of position. Too stylised and your team is predictable, too reactive and your team loses continuity.

Klopp and Pep are both style managers, but both would struggle badly without the players to carry out their instructions. It’s too easy to big up managers with the best players. What leapt Pep to the top of the Prem was £200m transfer fee in one window, and what made Liverpool leapfrog to 2nd was £156m in one transfer window. When you can plug holes in all positions you’re bound to look better than managers like Unai and Wenger who have to put up with lesser players who make mistakes. This season, to me Unai looked like he was constantly trying to find ways to negate the lack of quality and/or injuries.

 

[Red London]

If Wenger was one of the worst tacticians. How bad must you be not to stay in the top 4 for 20 years, win 7 FA Cups, reach a CL final, and manage a season that never loses a game.

All your post is based on conjecture about Wenger being tactically inept. But what is an absolute fact is that only time Wenger dropped out of the top 4 in his whole tenure is when he and the players were working under extreme adverse conditions, overhead planes, stadium boycotts, social media rants, memes and protests.

During Wenger's reign here football massively changed. The way footballers conduct themselves, the way clubs are run and the way managers run their teams.

He was one of the best managers to ever grace football for the first half of his reign, but in recent years got outshined by other managers. If you disagree with me think back to the thrashings we recieved from Chelsea, United, City and Liverpool in the least few years of his reign. Those were tactically inept performances. Some blame goes to the side but not all of it, and a long term manager needs to make sure the mentality of the squad is on point.

 

[Red London]

Multiple players who have played under Wenger said he was fantastic at bringing the squad together shape wise but wasn't a tactical genius. I've seen it a few times. Back when players were more professional and you had characters in the dressing room you needed less 1on1 player management and tactics.

Football is becoming a different beast nowadays. SAF retired at a fantastic time, Mourinho has also massively flopped in recent years. There's a new age of top managers, thats how industries are in general. Times and dynamics change.

 

[GDeep™]

Every manager has their own style. Wenger with his style changed English football and gave AFC its most magical period. We were phenomenal under Wenger.

 

[GDeep™]

What have we seen under Emery anyway? Boring football, lost matches in the key months, conceding more goals than, team built around Kola, and embarrassment in the EL final.

Guy has it all to prove.

 

[GDeep™]

Rooney said LVG was the best coach he’s ever worked with, mentioned his tactical work.

How does that reflect on Ferguson?

Think Fergie was similar to Wenger in the early years, latter in his career he adapted.

 

[Iceman10]

Multiple players who have played under Wenger said he was fantastic at bringing the squad together shape wise but wasn't a tactical genius. I've seen it a few times. Back when players were more professional and you had characters in the dressing room you needed less 1on1 player management and tactics.

Football is becoming a different beast nowadays. SAF retired at a fantastic time, Mourinho has also massively flopped in recent years. There's a new age of top managers, thats how industries are in general. Times and dynamics change.

In addition to tactics, it is just the case with teams under Klopp and Guardiola (and poss. Pochettino) that there was a step-up in overall fitness and intensity, even above what there was before. Training and match preparation evolved, not just tactics. Some information has come out regarding little details when adjusting for midday kickoffs. Even diet had evolved from the revolution to PL football Arsène Wenger first brought.

I still think AW has potential to do well at a super-rich club such as PSG, after refreshing himself. He had just stagnated, and in addition the old model of a manager being so central to everything at the club had also become outdated.

I understand what some say about Klopp and his transfer budgets. Whatevs, one can go into that, but Klopp was right. Heavy Metal vs. AW's Orchestra.

Can Unai Emery take the club back to top 2-3 level in the PL. I think he can take the club forwards, but not sure yet if he will do so enough (incl. required dynamism).

 

[Football Manager]

Just because a manager is focused on tactics doesn't mean he's a good tactician.

Emery's #1 failure as a manager is that he sets his players up for failure by not playing his team to their individual strengths.

His #2 failure is that he is ego-driven to a fault and believes his tactics are more important than the players themselves.

These are the two biggest differences between Emery and Wenger. Stylistically and philosophically I prefer Wenger's approach... I prefer chaos over order, improvisation over composition, instincts over execution. The results won't be as consistent but they will be more beautiful and the potential is greater.

My personal belief is that tactics and effort can make a poor team average or an average team good, but they cannot on their own make a good team great. I can certainly concede that in the modern game you cannot succeed without a proper tactical approach. However, for a team that wants to go from good to great, which should be Arsenal's ambition, it's not enough.

Thierry Henry on playing for Barcelona under Pep Guardiola: "He puts everything in place to get the ball up to the final third of the pitch and then trusts his team to finish the job in the only area of the field that can’t be planned for." My sense of Emery is he wants to control every aspect of play up to and including the final shot on goal. He doesn't just want the team to score, he wants the team to score HIS WAY.

Going back to Emery's #1 failure, Arsenal's recruitment limitations mean that they will have players with clear faults and limitations. That means that those players must be put in positions where they can play to their strengths and minimize the amount of time that their weaknesses are exposed.

You have a team where you have a LB (Kola) who can't defend being covered by a CM (Xhaka) without mobility. You have an inverted winger (Iwobi) who is a poor finisher. You have a CB (Mustafi) prone to rash challenges who is constantly put in 1V1 situations due to a high line and both fullbacks pushed all the way up the pitch. You have a classic #10 who is asked to man-mark the opposing #6 as his primary directive. The list goes on. Yes, it would help to have different players, but again, Arsenal have a limited capacity to recruit - having a manager that cannot shape his tactics to the strengths of his players is a recipe for disaster.

Modern tactician like klopp and guardiola set up their team to player their way of football instead of playing to the players strength.
Henry once tried to play on the other side of the pitch and guardiola was furious about it, even though he scored. They damand their player to play their own way. And if not, they will find another player. Guardiola replacing joe hart was a classic example because he want a sweeper keeper who’s comfortable on the ball. So even if he has a prime Buffon, he will still replace him with a sweeper keeper.

 

[Red London]

I still think AW has potential to do well at a super-rich club such as PSG, after refreshing himself. He had just stagnated, and in addition the old model of a manager being so central to everything at the club had also become outdated.

I agree, Wenger is more suited to managing a top top side these days. He will get the respect that is so important in a dressing room of egos. When you have superstars it is less about niggly tactics and more about keeping the dressing room happy with a defined philosophy.

Arsenal aren't the big boys anymore so I dont think Wenger's style suits us, we need a gritty manager like Klopp or Poch. Everyone goes on about these guys playing 'attractive' football, I haven't seen anything like that really, maybe exciting football but at times these sides are glorified ****house teams. Wenger rejected the notion of taking away the sexy football, and it provided entertainment we took for granted in the Fabregas/Nasri/Rvp days. But towards the end it was just a mismatch; Xhaka, Alexis and Özil do not suit Wenger's style of play I dont care who disagrees.

One thing some Arsenal fans on here need to understand, is you can't have the best of both worlds on a limited budget. You can't play beautiful football and win lots of trophies; our resources aren't bountiful enough. There's a middle ground (which doesnt mean im saying I want to play Simeone/Mourinho football in the slightest). If we build up our squad over the years then maybe we can start thinking about sexy football again.

And about the model of the manager being central; I completely agree. Its why Chelsea, Arsenal and United are playing catch up; the older model brought so much success that it took us longer to adapt. If anything we have made the quickest movements out of the 3 which is a positive.