Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by Mo Britain, Oct 17, 2018.
Leicester home last season??? Fulham away last season???
So you would sack him for meeting season objectives and on top of that, wnning a major European trophy????? Bannable post IMO.
His deal is up then or has a break point this summer. Quite a few have mentioned it.
No need to sack him or payoff.
He can meet objectives but we can still acknowledge he's not the man to take us to the next level hence why we'd need to move on. I'd say at this stage it take something extraordinary for him to do enough to warrant getting a new contract or anything like that. Like convincingly finish 3rd and win the EL, maybe even the FA Cup or something like that. Basically the team would have to be unrecognisable from how disorganised and unbalanced it's looking at this particular time.
Personally the attractive football part doesn't bother me too much, I'm just look for us to be more convincing. If we only win games 1 or 2-0 then that's fine by me as long as it's not end-to-end life and death vs sides we shouldn't be conceding loads of chances to. For that reason it's why I'm such pro-Allegri and Mourinho.
I just can't picture where we secure CL football and win EL while saying we should part ways from the manager. Even if we secure CL only, that's not just "only", because we would be looking at two of three of Sp**s, United, and Chelsea beaten for PL position by us. I'm not diminishing the scenario, instead just saying I don't see our fans getting to that place, let alone Raul, Edu, and Vinai.
If we struggle and just about achieve top 4 (we really should be getting top 4 based on the quality we have with players like Auba, Laca, Özil, Pepe, Ceballos, Tierney, Bellerin, etc) and win the EL purely because the competition isn't that great, I mean I'd honestly make us favourites bar a top team like Atletico in 2018 coming down from the CL. If it's far from convincing, there's some poor results and in general things just don't improve to a point where we look like a convincing team then I think we can thank Emery for his services and helping us get back into the CL but acknowledge that he probably can't take us any further. I don't think top 4 and EL should guarantee him anything. We're trying to build a team that'll eventually compete for titles again. We all know that's not gonna happen under Emery. He reeks of transitional manager in any case. Also the Kroenke's are the most important people here, we've investing quite a lot of money in the most recent transfer window. They'll surely want to see competing in the next couple of years and there's already some rumours even today that Josh isn't convinced by Emery.
At least the attacking was a bit better today.
ok, I just don't see it. Agree to disagree, especially when overall context that will be looked at would be getting back into the CL after three seasons out, and only two seasons on from us only having a tally of 63 points from 38 matches. It would be seen that there was plenty to fix after Gazidis (and Wenger just going stale), with a considerable amount of squad turnover required, and the overall trajectory supports Emery continuing on, especially as no one is realistically expecting we will displace either Liverpool/City from top 2 this season anyway. Especially if United don't make top 4 again and people look at the results of them chopping and changing managers. Maybe Woodward's fault, but fact is there are always conservative tendencies when changing managers because many times even the best manager available on paper ends up with failure.
(let me just add that if we don't make CL I've already said Emery should not be retained beyond this season)
I can't help but feel like part of our problem is the over-reliance on our FBs getting forward. With the midfield also pushing into the box we leave ourselves horrendously exposed. At least when we played through the middle of the park, we were able to keep possession better.
Also dropping off so opponents can shoot, and constantly giving the ball away on short goal kicks is clearly not helping. Defending 101 states that any defender dumb enough to play a square pass across the box deserves to be shot.
What's the point of us getting back into the CL only to fall out of it the following season? Those who are long sighted look beyond results and ask if Emery's style of football really is good enough to ever get us competitive with City/Liverpool. Good enough to justify us getting Emery more time. Don't think you'll find a lot of people who think it is.
Not leicester or Fulham but Sp**s even Liverpool at home we dominated them like we haven't done in 6 years . Then he started tinkering ....
You are slightly conflating two things in there.
(1) Staying in the CL
(2) Breaking into the top 2 in the PL
If Emery qualifies for the CL, I'm talking about conservative-minded (boardroom) considerations that would weigh towards keeping him, even if just a minimum rolling contract or a two-season extension. There are no guarantees with a new manager, no matter how theoretically good they would be there are still risks, such as unknown of chemistry of the new manager with the club setup. Whether good or bad, our new club structure is not a natural fit for a big ego manager who might start to focus on politics vs. Raul/Edu/Vinai instead of solely on performance of the first team. Do you think Raul/Vinai/Edu therefore would want to take risk with a type of manager who might disrupt their security at Arsenal instead of continuity with Emery? I don't.
Back to the conflation, if Emery had consistent transfer budgets over Liverpool, and if after 2-3 seasons in CL he wasn't taking us beyond just CL qualification and back on top of Liverpool I'm sure point (2) in the conflation would seep even into the accountability and considerations of Raul/Vinai/Edu. Don't underestimate though how the Kroenkes would be more than pleased for just 2-3 consecutive seasons of CL qualification if Emery could secure that. They were fine with that with Wenger while it lasted.
If Emery did at any time drop us back out of the CL (point 1 in the conflation), I'm sure of decent likelihood of termination, esp. with no more than two season contracts at a time to limit severance. Only *after* that happened though, imo, not before. Just stating it all as it is, as I see it. Fans have their different opinions, but they are not in the boardroom.
Then our board and "club structure" is quite frankly the cancer that's killing the club. Surely they should realize by now after the Wenger fiasco that being "conservative" and refusing to take risks is often the most risky thing one can do? There are no guarantee that keeping Emery will prevent us from crashing the next season either, look at Mourinho getting Utd a 2nd place then having to get sacked. Only fools would look for guarantees in sports.
Could turn out that way, but remember this club structure was a reaction to centralisation of clubs under do-it-all control freaks such as Wenger and Mourinho being seen to be outdated. Do you think after that big change we are so quickly going to do a U-turn on it, especially only after little over one real season where we've had all three of Raul/Edu/Vinai bedded in? Raul is currently a cult-like figure at the club with considerable goodwill. How do you learn what is good and bad, and what just needs tweaks, if you chop and change reactively/violently? There is a risk vs. conservatism balance to be had. Risk has potential upside, but so does some stability/continuity.
No, I said the opposite. I said if the football remains this dire, the only way he warrants us taking up the option for a further year in his contract is if he finishes in the top 4 and wins the EL.
Not entertaining at all. But again I also recall the fa cup final in 2005 which was extremely painful to watch. We sat and defended all day and in the end we won it on penalties. The end justifies the means. But it's occurring with alarming regularity. Before too long teams will be singing boring boring arsenal.
I cringe every time someone says "bannable post".
Chelsea at home was where he got it spot on tactic wise. Unfortunately that was the game Bellerin got injured in and it's been a bit **** since then.
I think we need to except Emery’s overall tactical approach is not easy on the eye and as long as he’ll be here we won’t see free flowing attack minded football as in the past. I understand the transition from one brand of football to another can be painful especially if you’ve been a master of one style for as long as we have been under Wenger. But modern football has changed and the game has evolved into a result driven approach where pleasing the fans with beautiful style in not a priority.
If Emery achieves set goals (I guess top 4 and serious challenge for one of the cup trophies is the bare minimum) he won’t be sacked. Goals should be set progressively which means next season we need to strive for bigger things than this season. I’m sure the board has a defined metric on which Emery’s work is evaluated and judging by the length of his contract we’re going season by season.
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