• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

Unai Emery: Adios

Status
Not open for further replies.

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
After that match yesterday, it seems Emery has an abundance of choices up front now. Full backs are coming on stream. If he plays Holding at CB, Torreira instead of Xhaka we’re only left with one player who’s a potential banana skin, either Luiz or Sokratis. A big improvement.
 

Impact

Established Member
Exactly... Board sold players not him. He played Mihki one day before leaving to Roma... if he is playing youngsters is because he has no other choice... if you are not called Mesut Özil you will play.

According to an article in The Athletic, the Mkhitaryan deal took place following the Sp**s game.
 

Fewtch

Özil at 10 And Emery Out
According to an article in The Athletic, the Mkhitaryan deal took place following the Sp**s game.
Yes but he was being offered to french clubs weeks before that so clearly he was unwanted by Raul but not Emery.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
I'm not sure we can credit or criticize Emery for any player recruitment anyway. Thought he was just a coach who had a a bit of input but not really involved in that?

Although the role of manager today is usually more restricted than it was a decade or two ago, I wouldn't draw absolute lines on who does what and has how much say. These "continental" models consisting of multiple people rather work as a team on the basis of at best a common idea.

In a well working setup I doubt the coach has absolutely nothing to say on player recruitment. In most cases the whole group will decide on what's needed in the squad in terms of position and profile and then the DoF or whoever and Scouting will go out to identify such players. The coach will definitely be involved in carving out the needed profile.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
It was so obvious yesterday what a quality fullback means to Emery’s system.

Have to say I'm a bit baffled by this guy. It's not complete night/day differences, but the EL and PL setup is quite different and it's not just the better fullbacks. E.g. exactly those fullbacks played a more varied role than usual. There was more attacking through the middle. More off the ball movement up top, more coherent pressing - albeit the playing out and off the ball movement during that phase was still ****e.

It doesn't really vindicate Emery for me, cause it raises some other questions about him, but it's baffling.
 

Beksl

Sell All The Youngsters
Although the role of manager today is usually more restricted than it was a decade or two ago, I wouldn't draw absolute lines on who does what and has how much say. These "continental" models consisting of multiple people rather work as a team on the basis of at best a common idea.

In a well working setup I doubt the coach has absolutely nothing to say on player recruitment. In most cases the whole group will decide on what's needed in the squad in terms of position and profile and then the DoF or whoever and Scouting will go out to identify such players. The coach will definitely be involved in carving out the needed profile.

It's not really rocket science, obviously a coach or a manager has a signifciant input in shaping the squad he leads.

Emery identified very early which positions he wants to strenghten and I'm sure the profile of players he wants. He was very vocal and specific about that actually.
 

Sniper Mik

Not a Closet Sp**s Fan
Have to say I'm a bit baffled by this guy. It's not complete night/day differences, but the EL and PL setup is quite different and it's not just the better fullbacks. E.g. exactly those fullbacks played a more varied role than usual. There was more attacking through the middle. More off the ball movement up top, more coherent pressing - albeit the playing out and off the ball movement during that phase was still ****e.

It doesn't really vindicate Emery for me, cause it raises some other questions about him, but it's baffling.
I guess the personnel had a lot to do with it. All of our Hale End graduates are adept at pass and move. Nelson is brilliant at it. Ceballos likes to roam around the pitch and then there's Martinelli who never stops running. Half way through the 1st half I was just wondering the sheer amount of pace and athleticism we had out there - Willock, Nelson, Maitland-Niles, Bellerin, Tierney, Martinelli and then in the 2nd half Auba and Pepe. There's so much potential dynamism in this squad that we can tap into if we could just structure it right.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
I guess the personnel had a lot to do with it. All of our Hale End graduates are adept at pass and move. Nelson is brilliant at it. Ceballos likes to roam around the pitch and then there's Martinelli who never stops running. Half way through the 1st half I was just wondering the sheer amount of pace and athleticism we had out there - Willock, Nelson, Maitland-Niles, Bellerin, Tierney, Martinelli and then in the 2nd half Auba and Pepe. There's so much potential dynamism in this squad that we can tap into if we could just structure it right.

If that's the true intention of how Emery wants to play, why persist with the Xhaka/Guendouzi double pivot and bench Willock/Ceballos in the league?

Kola and AMN are not that bad they can't play a similar game to yesterday's. Especially as AMN is more of a midfielder, the tucking into midfield like Bellerin did yesterday actually fits him more than sticking glued to the line. There also was less of a focus on overlaps.

Why consistently go for cowardly setups in the league? If the team is able to play a rather aggressive press - and let's not act like it was perfect yesterday but that actually looked like a team press for once at stretches - why change that approach for most of the games? This manager is a walking question mark.
 

Beksl

Sell All The Youngsters
Have to say I'm a bit baffled by this guy. It's not complete night/day differences, but the EL and PL setup is quite different and it's not just the better fullbacks. E.g. exactly those fullbacks played a more varied role than usual. There was more attacking through the middle. More off the ball movement up top, more coherent pressing - albeit the playing out and off the ball movement during that phase was still ****e.

It doesn't really vindicate Emery for me, cause it raises some other questions about him, but it's baffling.

The setup is different because you have fullbacks who can provide width, know when to overlap and be an offensive outlet. Yesterday It enabled our wingers, especially Nelson to come inside and attack through the middle, creating space for FBs and be more closer to the goal. I especially liked how Nelson tried to shoot at every opportunity, we're still too timid in that regard. We ripped the benefits yesterday because of that.

It's baffling because it seems the younger guys are more adept at executing his system than the seniors. The front three was more narrow and more in sync when pressing. Willock was a corner stone for every good move, Emery needs to start playing this kid in the league it's so obvious how better we function when he plays.
 

Sniper Mik

Not a Closet Sp**s Fan
The setup is different because you have fullbacks who can provide width, know when to overlap and be an offensive outlet. Yesterday It enabled our wingers, especially Nelson to come inside and attack through the middle, creating space for FBs and be more closer to the goal. I especially liked how Nelson tried to shoot at every opportunity, we're still too timid in that regard. We ripped the benefits yesterday because of that.

It's baffling because it seems the younger guys are more adept at executing his system than the seniors. The front three was more narrow and more in sync when pressing. Willock was a corner stone for every good move, Emery needs to start playing this kid in the league it's so obvious how better we function when he plays.
By playing Xhaka and Guendouzi you have two ball hogs which is redundant. Something like Xhaka/Guendouzi + Torreira + Willock/Ceballos works best for us. You have everything in there - distribution, ball winning, ball progression/carrying.
 

El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
If that's the true intention of how Emery wants to play, why persist with the Xhaka/Guendouzi double pivot and bench Willock/Ceballos in the league?

Kola and AMN are not that bad they can't play a similar game to yesterday's. Especially as AMN is more of a midfielder, the tucking into midfield like Bellerin did yesterday actually fits him more than sticking glued to the line. There also was less of a focus on overlaps.

Why consistently go for cowardly setups in the league? If the team is able to play a rather aggressive press - and let's not act like it was perfect yesterday but that actually looked like a team press for once at stretches - why change that approach for most of the games? This manager is a walking question mark.

That was basically my biggest gripe with yesterday's performance.

Even taking the level Liège are into context, we should be playing like this against Watford and Burnley.

If it is a personnel issue, why isn't he dropping one of Xhaka or Torreira as A-M? Why not have someone more mobile as the base of the pivot to cover for our fullbacks and who can tick in as a cb a lá Fernandinho?

I mentioned this during the match thread, but do you remember hearing Mustafis or Holdings name during the game? We actually had control over the midfield and they were able to mop up anything else that the press couldn't force a turnover.

But then again, this is the guy who makes Özil one of his captains when he wants the German to piss off of the club... Maybe it's the Europa League pedigree that makes him less scared to take the game to the opposition.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
The setup is different because you have fullbacks who can provide width, know when to overlap and be an offensive outlet. [...]

Everything true kind of, but before Tierney/Bellerin all the fullbacks did was create width, yesterday they had a more varied game. It's different systemically, not just different in personnel - and that's the issue or question.

By playing Xhaka and Guendouzi you have two ball hogs which is redundant. Something like Xhaka/Guendouzi + Torreira + Willock/Ceballos works best for us. You have everything in there - distribution, ball winning, ball progression/carrying.

Absolutely. Yet in the seemingly more important league games he goes with his typical Sevilla days "two sitting ball hogs at 6 plus an 8 at 10"-thingy; then only changes that for "less important" or less tough games in the Cups. Feels like he's very much aiming for security most of the time which massively backfires and hampers the teams performance.

If it is a personnel issue, why isn't he dropping one of Xhaka or Torreira as A-M?

Exactly. It's just weird. If it's a personnel issue why not field the players who can actually do what you want? Willock, Ceballos were available for midfield roles, no way are Kola and AMN so limited that you have to go for a completely different tactical approach when they're on the field. I very much believe this is Emery trying to play it safe in the league and still tinkering around.
 

Beksl

Sell All The Youngsters
Exactly. It's just weird. If it's a personnel issue why not field the players who can actually do what you want? Willock, Ceballos were available for midfield roles, no way are Kola and AMN so limited that you have to go for a completely different tactical approach when they're on the field. I very much believe this is Emery trying to play it safe in the league and still tinkering around.

But that was exactly the issue last season and one of the reasons we persisted with three at the back. After Hector and Holding went down and Nacho lost his legs we were left with Kola who is a very limited FB because of stamina issues with defensive susceptibility and over the hill Licht who was a RB backup. We also had no pure wingers so Emery decided for a completely different tactical approach to what he wanted to play. Obviously it didn't work and he learnt his lesson by not trying it this season even though he has similar issues (albeit less serious as we added wide players).

That's why I suspect Emery is insisting on double pivot because he still doesn't trust his fullbacks to do what he wants them to do, which is a lot tbh.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
But that was exactly the issue last season and one of the reasons we persisted with three at the back. After Hector and Holding went down and Nacho lost his legs we were left with Kola who is a very limited FB because of stamina issues with defensive susceptibility and over the hill Licht who was a RB backup. We also had no pure wingers so Emery decided for a completely different tactical approach to what he wanted to play. Obviously it didn't work and he learnt his lesson by not trying it this season even though he has similar issues (albeit less serious as we added wide players).

That's why I suspect Emery is insisting on double pivot because he still doesn't trust his fullbacks to do what he wants them to do, which is a lot tbh.

Yeah, I'm just not buying that. I've seen way more limited fullbacks than Kola (and AMN) do the job they were asked to, especially on that left. Kola is a bit suspect defensively but imo he's tailored to bombing down the flank and provide width. If you expect immobile ballhogs to help out on the fanlks defensively you've got a whole nother issue. And if your team has stamina issues that's very much on the coaching staff.

But I guess we just disagree here.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Can't stand this manager. I am not going to give him credit for selecting the young players. It has basically be forced upon him and they knew he would always choose experience over them. Miki and Iwobi have been sold and he has fallen out with Özil. He has literally no choice but to play the young players.

Martinelli scores and Emery goes and high fives Xhaka.
 

Arseshavin

Active Member
Emery’s man love for Xhaka is hurting the club and is making Emery seem like a worse manager than he is. It’s evident by looking at how free flowing and direct our reserve team is, where our midfield is way more dynamic.
 

blaze_of_glory

Moderator
Moderator

Country: Canada
Have to say I'm a bit baffled by this guy. It's not complete night/day differences, but the EL and PL setup is quite different and it's not just the better fullbacks. E.g. exactly those fullbacks played a more varied role than usual. There was more attacking through the middle. More off the ball movement up top, more coherent pressing - albeit the playing out and off the ball movement during that phase was still ****e.

It doesn't really vindicate Emery for me, cause it raises some other questions about him, but it's baffling.
I was thinking this too watching the game last night after the fact. The EL/cup team plays very differently. Then again it could be down to the quality (or lack thereof) from the opposition making it a lot easier on them.
 

bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland
Could a simple explanation not be the attack is better with a better defence?

Weve a much more stable and balanced defence and midfield in the Europa giving a better platform to attack?

Torreira Amn and Willock is a better combination than most of our midfield in the league. Mobility and energy. Completely different from our slow as a turning bus midfield with Xhaka in there.
 

Maybe

You're wrong, no?
I think that having a group of players that can press high up the pitch constantly for 90 minutes is the difference between our cup performances and PL.
There was no weak link in that pressing that we usually get in PL by playing static players.
It's actually interesting to watch Mustafi through different systems. When he plays with this youthful formation that is capable of reducing the constant pressure he gets while playing with more static senior players, he looks like a decent CB we thought we bought a couple of years back.

Maybe this is the way Emery actually wants to play, but can't do it with the available senior personnel.

At this moment, I'm more interested in how we do in EL and domestic cups than watching PL. Hopefully, in a year or two, we can transition the current cup team to PL.
One positive thing on this forum is that youth haters are finally silenced, some of them are even praising our young guns in their threads.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts+

Top Bottom