Unai Emery: Adios

[Iceman10]

Cold hard facts.

At least the word "some" is used there.

There is also an issue, imo, that Arsenal has two stages to go through to get back to elite level. Stage 1 is getting back into top 4 / CL; Stage 2 is competing for PL titles and CL. Some Arsenal fans are getting ahead of themselves getting into their heads that Emery has to be dumped now because he won't be suitable for Stage 2 despite us not having got through Stage 1 yet. This just seems short-sighted to me because it creates an unnecessary toxic atmosphere which almost hopes the manager to fail, but such failure would mean dropping of points which puts achieving of Stage 1 in jeopardy. I don't get why some can't accept that worst case Emery can just be the transition manager to get Arsenal back into the CL, and calm down a bit.

 

[drippin]

Cold hard facts.

The truth is, some Arsenal fans want Emery to fail for two reasons: 1. Because he isn't playing their favourite player. 2. Because they haven't let go of Wenger yet. Cold hard facts I'm afraid.

Hmm, Dregen57 is that account? Or just copying?

 

[Mark Tobias]

I don't get why some can't accept that worst case Emery can just be the transition manager to get Arsenal back into the CL, and calm down a bit.

The Arsenal Mania general opinion isn't that effective on the rest of the fan base, is it?
I mean a good chunk of us don't go to matches, don't live in the UK and will never interact with other fans outside of this site...
Think people also need to realise this is a forum. A place to vent, discuss the club we love and throw ideas around. Taking it this literally can;t be good for you.


However, I do agree we need the fanbase (where they are in direct contact/influence on the club) to show as much support as possible. There is a big difference between supporting and blindly following. You don't have to agree with the current situation to support the club. Nobody is picketing outside the Emirates are they?

 

[Iceman10]

The Arsenal Mania general opinion isn't that effective on the rest of the fan base, is it?
I mean a good chunk of us don't go to matches, don't live in the UK and will never interact with other fans outside of this site...
Think people also need to realise this is a forum. A place to vent, discuss the club we love and throw ideas around. Taking it this literally can;t be good for you.


However, I do agree we need the fanbase (where they are in direct contact/influence on the club) to show as much support as possible. There is a big difference between supporting and blindly following. You don't have to agree with the current situation to support the club. Nobody is picketing outside the Emirates are they?

If there is impression of venting at A-M that is wrong, and inadvertently a bit of a strawman because I wouldn't be stupid enough to get bothered about something I knew was just an A-M thing. It is about wider undercurrents that I am aware of, also picked up by media.

 

[Sanchez11]

Cold hard facts.

I'm in neither camp so he can shove his cold facts up his arse!!

 

[Mark Tobias]

If there is impression of venting at A-M that is wrong, and inadvertently a bit of a strawman because I wouldn't be stupid enough to get bothered about something I knew was just an A-M thing. It is about wider undercurrents that I am aware of, also picked up by media.

Hence why I asked. I don't really use facebook, twitter (unless you lots make me) or any other social media, so I asked.
If you say it is there I really have no choice but to believe you. Are games becoming toxic? What are the clues to these undercurrents?

 

[Iceman10]

Hence why I asked. I don't really use facebook, twitter (unless you lots make me) or any other social media, so I asked.
If you say it is there I really have no choice but to believe you. Are games becoming toxic? What are the clues to these undercurrents?

OK, if you're saying most of your support for Arsenal is remote, via. this forum, I understand. Not sure of the breakdown of people who comment here at A-M. Regarding picking up of undercurrents, I could go into all of that, but ultimately what you are probing is impact on performance on the pitch. Fans of course are not booing yet, but one does know about how undercurrents can spill over into the Emirates based on what happened at the club during the later Wenger years. Our club, manager, and players also do not ignore media coverage which purports to represent "opinion" on lack of belief in Emery. I will use the word purport, because it is exaggerated, but there is a feedback loop (Wenger) seen before.

 

[Mark Tobias]

OK, if you're saying most of your support for Arsenal is remote, via. this forum, I understand. Not sure of the breakdown of people who comment here at A-M. Regarding picking up of undercurrents, I could go into all of that, but ultimately what you are probing is impact on performance on the pitch. Fans of course are not booing yet, but one does know about how undercurrents can spill over into the Emirates based on what happened at the club during the later Wenger years. Our club, manager, and players also do not ignore media coverage which purports to represent "opinion" on lack of belief in Emery. I will use the word purport, because it is exaggerated, but there is a feedback loop (Wenger) seen before.

Thanks for the response. As fans we do owe the club a responsibility in the atmospheres we create in and around the club. You are right.

 

[Iceman10]

Thanks for the response. As fans we do owe the club a responsibility in the atmospheres we create in and around the club. You are right.

yw, I suppose some will say they were previously fighting against a club set-up with what they perceived had become a "tyrant" who had stagnated, so in that case some believe a "toxic atmosphere" was warranted and fan power was important. When Wenger's time was up it was clearly up, but there were things with some fans 3-4 years before then that weren't so smart, imo (counter-productive).

 

[celestis]

Cold hard facts.

@Dregen57 this dude copied you .

 

[Dutch D]

I'll admit I'm probably in a minority here, but I would rather see the team I support fail gloriously than succeed dreadfully (generally, except for in a final). For instance, I was annoyed pretty much the entire run of the Netherlands to the WC final in 2010, because the games were not entertaining and involved big amounts of luck. Similarly, I did not like Frank de Boer's tenure at Ajax even though he won the league 4 times in a row and prefered Bosz who didn't win the league, but played exciting football with an attacking (pressing) philosophy. Football = entertainment.

What does that mean for the Arsenal situation? I'm patient with regards to the manager as long as I can discern what he's attempting to do and as long as it represents a fitting philosophy.

I do realize the importance of short term results, one would almost forget Arsenal is a CL club, but the means to the end matter. That's why I hoped he would introduce some sturdiness (defensively) and could understand a slightly more 'fast counter attack' style in his first season.

However, last season he failed to get the required results with a negative (/boring) style. I did not enjoy the season one bit. Of course, I'm willing to give the coach time to shape the team in his image, but what image is Emery trying to work towards?

This season, his negative (or cowardly) approach really stands out despite the abundance of talent and underperforming seniors, which warrants a positive and daring approach. This has affected my patience for him. I want him to succeed, but in a style that fits Arsenal. If the exciting games in the PL can be counted on one hand again, I want him out by the end of the season regardless of league position. Conversely, if he develops a beautiful style and just misses on 4th due to bad luck, he gets a final chance.

 

[goonergaz]

Are you trying to convince that Man City in the semi and Chelsea in the final 2017 both playing their strongest teams available weren't trying

Ok, granted at that stage - but if you look at the cup as a whole it didn't carry the weight it did in the old days. Yes when you get that far (semis or even the 1/4s) then you are playing your stronger teams and trying to win it, but it's still not something you'd aim for at the start of the season like 'the good old days'...just check out the line-ups early on, even Southampton fielded a weakened team at home against us and you'd think they'd be all up for a cup win!

Also in 2017 we had had a really easy run up to the semi, then we were lucky against Man City (goal disallowed for them and they had twice as many shots) and in the final we had an extra man for the last ~25 minutes. At the end of the day, anyone can win a cup - even Sp**s could have won the CL final - would that have made them the best team in Europe!?

 

[drippin]

@Dregen57 this dude copied you .

But actually when I looked, that tweet was released before Dregen57 wrote his comment?

 

[celestis]

But actually when I looked, that tweet was released before Dregen57 wrote his comment?

Great minds think alike?

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Cold hard facts.

The truth is Emery has already failed, last season he flopped getting us into Europe thought he top 4 or El.

Now we've been playing crap all season conceding an ungodly amount of chances. No one wants him to fail he's doing it to himself.

 

[GoonerBoy19]

Ok, granted at that stage - but if you look at the cup as a whole it didn't carry the weight it did in the old days. Yes when you get that far (semis or even the 1/4s) then you are playing your stronger teams and trying to win it, but it's still not something you'd aim for at the start of the season like 'the good old days'...just check out the line-ups early on, even Southampton fielded a weakened team at home against us and you'd think they'd be all up for a cup win!

Also in 2017 we had had a really easy run up to the semi, then we were lucky against Man City (goal disallowed for them and they had twice as many shots) and in the final we had an extra man for the last ~25 minutes. At the end of the day, anyone can win a cup - even Sp**s could have won the CL final - would that have made them the best team in Europe!?

Could have won, but they haven't right? Also FA and League Cup is very much dependant on draws these days. We have got Liverpool away next in League cup, so draws are random for everyone. Winning 3 FA cups in 5 years isn't a fluke. Smaller teams are hard to beat in FA cup, that's the beauty of that competition otherwise why add lower league clubs in that competition?

 

[GoonerBoy19]

Cold hard facts.

Absolute rubbish, do they even watch our games?? Or just google results and feel happy we won 1-0. We are scrapping for every 3 points just like last season, it will turn into different results the moment luck runs out.

 

[Ewarwoowar]

At the end of the day, anyone can win a cup - even Sp**s could have won the CL final - would that have made them the best team in Europe!?

:rofl::rofl:Steady, they always, I repeat, always **** it up!

Yes Southampton came to lose, only because they had 9 players out through injury and suspension and were fighting for their lives in the PL

And what does it matter about the other games, Man city came to steam roller us, had 67% possession, 20 shots to our 9, that disallowed goal was a hares whisker either way, we should of had a pen, we played 3 at the back Gabriel rcb, aging kos cb, a youthful holding lcb, Monreal and Ox as wing backs, Xhaka and Ramsey cms, Giroud up top, no ****** gave us a chance we were going to come out of that triumphant.

Wenger went with what they said he could not do "pragmatic", and do it we did, in a better style than what Emery has thus far. Wenger cobbled two sides together for both the semi and the final and ******* won against the odds, give him his ******* due.

 

[Elijahbaggins]

I'll admit I'm probably in a minority here, but I would rather see the team I support fail gloriously than succeed dreadfully (generally, except for in a final). For instance, I was annoyed pretty much the entire run of the Netherlands to the WC final in 2010, because the games were not entertaining and involved big amounts of luck. Similarly, I did not like Frank de Boer's tenure at Ajax even though he won the league 4 times in a row and prefered Bosz who didn't win the league, but played exciting football with an attacking (pressing) philosophy. Football = entertainment.

What does that mean for the Arsenal situation? I'm patient with regards to the manager as long as I can discern what he's attempting to do and as long as it represents a fitting philosophy.

I do realize the importance of short term results, one would almost forget Arsenal is a CL club, but the means to the end matter. That's why I hoped he would introduce some sturdiness (defensively) and could understand a slightly more 'fast counter attack' style in his first season.

However, last season he failed to get the required results with a negative (/boring) style. I did not enjoy the season one bit. Of course, I'm willing to give the coach time to shape the team in his image, but what image is Emery trying to work towards?

This season, his negative (or cowardly) approach really stands out despite the abundance of talent and underperforming seniors, which warrants a positive and daring approach. This has affected my patience for him. I want him to succeed, but in a style that fits Arsenal. If the exciting games in the PL can be counted on one hand again, I want him out by the end of the season regardless of league position. Conversely, if he develops a beautiful style and just misses on 4th due to bad luck, he gets a final chance.

What I can't understand is how some of that early, counter-attacking football has disappeared into this turgid, flowless rubbish. I wonder if removing Ramsey and Özil from the midfield had something to do with it...?

 

[GoonerBoy19]

He did some amazing substitutes during his initial days, I thought that was his biggest strength about reading the game. However his ego issues have come into picture again which drowned him in PSG. Let's hope he learns his lesson and correct himself.