Unai Emery: Adios

[Toby]

Can’t think of a name. Someone like Tuchel or Nagelsmann maybe.

Tuchel's a bit strident. On one hand he should finally deliver with Saint-Germain to prove himself among the absolute top, but if he does he might be unattainable, on the other hand he's clearly a top tactician.

Nagelsmann's route over the next years is practically set. He'll stay at Leipzig for three or four seasons, then it's Bayern for him - he's a professed fan of theirs and has stated multiple times he wants to coach them. Think Bayern's next two managers will be Ten Hag and Nagelsmann.

Allegri would have been my choice to come in straight after Wenger to pragmatically stabilize and improve the squad at hand, but as I now think with the Emery days under way and a bigger squad fluctuation an almost complete rebuild is needed, I'd go for someone fresher who's really sold on the project and to make his name with it.

Think a dark horse is the way to go. Not as dark as never-having-managed-a-team-himself-Arteta or the just slighlty more experienced Ljungberg, but someone like Vieira if he does well at Nice, the Wilder guy @Rex Banner mentions often, Marcelo Gallardo who's still mostly a no name in Europe despite being very successfull in South America. Haven't looked into him too much, but that Julien Stephan from Stade Rennes seems to do a fine job. I also wouldn't remove Rodgers and Howe from my list before having spoken to them, although the latter might be a singularity just like Streich at SC Freiburg, who probably wouldn't work anywhere (as well) as he does there.

If Emery was to be sacked during the season, I'd seriously consider Claudio Ranieri as caretaker for the remaining matches.

 

[Sniper Mik]

Got you. Sorry, I was being flippant. Still very angry about last night.

No sweat mate

 

[Garrincha]

Isn't Edu in charge of the "style" part?

I dont really even know what our style as a club is any more as Wenger lost way last few years & Emery just reaching for anything that works.

If Edu is bringing the Invicible principles all for that as the perfect blend of attacking & defending... some big dirty mofos for all the attacking quality.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

True, but at this point i’d take someone like Arteta and you can probably get him out if City fairly quickly (unless they promise him the City job).

Despite what my tagline says, I've come around to this idea sooner for the good of the club.

 

[Toby]

My first guess would be that Xhaka, Sokratis, Kolasinac and AMN are not mobile enough in the first phase of playing out of the back. Even Guendouzi too.

Do you happen to know the walrus known as Holger Badstuber, maximum speed: "slow motion"? VfB Stuttgart play out the back very similar to what Norwich did in that posted clip and he's been our best defender so far. Moving 2 metres into any direction after having passed the ball to make yourself available isn't about mobility - it's about the actual willingness to move, doing it with intent, as well as positional awareness and having instructions at hand as to where you are supposed to move according to certain teammates' movement and the overall team movement in certain situations. That's coaching, not individual mobility. Don't have to be ****ing Messi to move into space 2 or 3 metres away.

 

[morpho]

Gotta agree thats a top post, the thing about style is why I was happy to give emery time last season, he started off decent and you could see a clear vision, we scored two or three teams goals that coulda been goal of the season, somewhere along the line, he changed it, maybe he 2nd guessed himself or something, I dunno, but its been down hill ever since and the games against the **** n watford were almost unprofessional, never in my life have i seen such space given on a football pitch

The board are obv going to keep him sadly so we just gotta hope he saves the over analysis for teams like liverpool n city where its needed and just lets the players play against the lower teams, if he does, we will win the majority of games, simple no need to fix your game plan around teams that are ****ter than you, you force your game on them, his over analysis will cost us big time if its allowed to carry on

Im not even sure what we saw in the beginning of last season was down to Emery. I mean, Id like that, wanting to give him some benefit of the doubt, but what I have seen for the mayority of his games, I think that spell was just players mentally between managers, and that he slowly got his tactics in...
As much as Id like us (him) to move on, I dont want a replacement for replacement sake (Moaninho should be publicly banned from our stadium). But if there comes a sweet ass manager available between now and next summer, I wouldnt loose sleep, if he got sacked before his contact ended.

 

[Makingtrax]

That's football though. Is and always has been. You only stick to managers that actually work out rather quickly or who have such high pedigree you give them a bit more time. In the end success is what determines if you can keep your job. Wenger and Ferguson were very special cases of which I feel they taint the picture of a lot of fans in terms of how long someone should be given. Also, which teams besides exactly Arsenal and United haven't been on the manager merry go round in the span of the last freaking three decades? You can count them on one hand and the reason they stuck to someone for so long was development increasing chances of success and finally success.

It doesn't make any sense to just keep someone for the sake of not firing/hiring too quickly when the actual signs after more than 1 season and 2 full preseasons clearly point to the Emery/Arsenal relationship not going anywhere. That's ample time to evaluate how a manager is doing.

E.g. after that honeymoon period United and Solskjaer had, that was after a couple of games in, the majority on this forum was of the opinion it was foolish of Utd to hire him permanently - and that was after what, 10, 12 games - but Emery can't be properly judged after 63 games now?

If you're on the lookout for success down the line, there's gotta be something there to find in a team. Doesn't matter if it's a killer attack, a rigid defense, a dominant possession game, a counter stlye or a cohesive press. Just something where you feel like this is going somewhere, and while it may not lead to instant success or winning sprees tomorrow, next month or even next season, there's a constant development of certain traits or say identity based on a manager's clear ideas on how to win a football game. There's been enough time gone by now to recognize this is not the case at Arsenal. I know you've got a very own way of seeing certain things with your focus on squad cost, but watching games like these - even with the acknowledgement of the squad still having certain holes - this is below what this squad should be able to do. This is all individual quality bailing the team out time and again.

This is also why some on here actually "rate" Lampard. The guy has instilled a clear idea on how he wants his team to play in the matter of a few months. At this point it's not so much about them consistently winning, which they don't do anyway, but that there's a feeling of: This is going somewhere. There's a an idea, there's a plan; once that's been worked into the team even more, consistency and results will likely get better. And as there actually is a fundamental plan behind it, it's easier to judge if things get better or worse.

Also, performances like those by Watford against Arsenal or Norwich against City - to only name two from the last matchday - do show to massive extent that squad cost and individual quality isn't the end of it all. Collective organization, team spirit, an overall clear idea tweaked on matchday to better fit the opposition, etc. are of importance, too.

I may also note that after having seen VfB Stuttgart's clearout of 20 outs and 19 ins, including a new manager, and DoF and TD having both said they needed such a big turnover to form a new team, especially for mental reasons, I think Arsenal may need the same. Not just for the lack of quality in certain areas, but to form a new unit of players and change the internal synergies. It's good players like Elneny, Mkhitaryan, Iwobi, Koscielny, Jenkinson, Monreal, Welbeck and Ospina are already gone, but, like I said besides quality issues, I feel like more have to follow to get together and build a wholly new group for mostly mental reasons. Unfortunately I think Unai Emery is not the man to build this new team over the next seasons.

Keep him until the end of the season if things don't go completely south, cause without that I don't think it's wise to change a manager mid season, also keeping in mind there's no one out there to instantly take over. Let him go at the end of the season, though, and continue the squad rebuild with someone new.

Always enjoy your posts and I read it with interest. You make some valid points as always.

But I’m sticking to what I believe. History shows a longer term manager is always more successful. United had been in the top 4, 5 years running, before Ferguson took over, but he finished 11th twice in the first three seasons. Fans were calling for his head but the club stuck by him, only surviving by the skin of his teeth. Here’s the thing, once he got the right squad he was away and flying and suddenly looked the manager he finally turned out to be.

Secondly, many of our problems are classic ‘quality’ issues. Too slow on the ball, giving the ball away, too slow in the tackle, rash tackles, indecisiveness, pulling shirts. And we have no proof that these mistakes are due to not understanding Emery or Emery’s lack of tactical know how.

I would at least like to see how Emery does with a quality DM instead of Xhaka and 2 CBs that can carry out his instructions, instead of the dross we have now. Bellerin and Tierney in there too. There’s nothing wrong with our attack.

 

[Garrincha]

It will be interesting to see if Norwich still play like that in the games coming up vs Palace & Villa when pressure really on playing rivals.

So far they have been expected to lose probably every game.

 

[Ewarwoowar]

Imho there is no chance of Arteta, he is too timid to want to be caught up in our **** atm, he'll go to a much more settled team, I think he is a man to go for a safer option and atm there is nothing safer than staying at City.

 

[Pepes blue pill]

Im not even sure what we saw in the beginning of last season was down to Emery. I mean, Id like that, wanting to give him some benefit of the doubt, but what I have seen for the mayority of his games, I think that spell was just players mentally between managers, and that he slowly got his tactics in...
As much as Id like us (him) to move on, I dont want a replacement for replacement sake (Moaninho should be publicly banned from our stadium). But if there comes a sweet ass manager available between now and next summer, I wouldnt loose sleep, if he got sacked before his contact ended.

Can agree with that considering whats happened since tbh, agree with the sacking him for the sake of it as well and getting in another bad replacement will set us back even further, I dont think freddie would do any worse and think he would get us playing with the bloody football again as well, if hes a massive hit he stays, if not he gives you time whislt we get the right man in....what emery has produced has been poor tho and the last two games have been beyond anything I know, players look lost

 

[RunTheTrap]

People saying Allegri, Mourinho or Simeone as managers just want to suffer don’t they? We have on average the youngest squad in the league right? Those types of managers are notorious for not using youth. Allegri would put Maitudi out on the wing over Dybala. Don’t get me started on Mourinho. We would sell ESR because he doesn’t track back, only for him to win a CL with City 4 years later. Maybe Simeone but even then Correra and Carrasco have struggled big time to succeed there. Pragmatism doesn’t really combine well with the the talent we already have here in my opinion.

 

[Pepes blue pill]

How is Vieira doing?

He’s a dark horse, Wenger is hyping him up and obviously Edu is his boy.

Bring him back and you have Edu, Vieira, Ljunberg, Pires all running the club basically.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...al-skills-Nice-dream-Arsenal-job-looming.html

 

[Garrincha]

Imho there is no chance of Arteta, he is too timid to want to be caught up in our **** atm, he'll go to a much more settled team, I think he is a man to go for a safer option and atm there is nothing safer than staying at City.

He was also known as Ivans boy so doubt Raul will be intrested with that.

Not many links left to Arteta at the club now. The Invincibles like Vieira / Thierry / Sol have way more around the club... Crazy turn over last 24 months.

 

[albakos]

Can Frake tell our guys to stop being stupid and make mistakes? i highly doubt playing beautiful football is great but we have far bigger issue like avoiding to make 3 errors a game.

A smart manager would give clear instructions and have players adapt to the opposition and various situations.
Players are inclined to follow orders, because if someone goes out of the instructions, and then makes a mistake, he will bear all the blame. Hence we kept repeating the same crap over and over again.
Douzy losing dangerous ball in front of the box, Sokratis kept playing it from the back, Pepe remained high and hardly helped AMN.

How Emery insisted on playing out from the back and left AMN to hang out dry is a clear indication that he is not flexible and despite glaring issues, he sticks to his poor tactics (whatever they may be, nobody knows)

 

[razörist]

 

[Oxeki]

I'm beginning to think that what we saw in the beginning of last season was probably the new manager bounce.

In the first 10 games of last season, we were arguably the most entertaining team in the PL. I remember the Redcafe having a meltdown after our home performance against Leicester. But that seem like a long time ago now

 

[RunTheTrap]

He was also known as Ivans boy so doubt Raul will be intrested with that.

Not many links left to Arteta at the club now. The Invincibles like Vieira / Thierry / Sol have way more around the club... Crazy turn over last 24 months.

Almost everything Gazidis has done for this club has pushed us into mediocrity. If he really wanted Arteta then it probably means Arteta is not that good. History would suggest his big decisions are woeful in the long term. I told my friend when we went for Emery was purely because he was the easiest option on the market. He was a free agent, that’s it.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

A smart manager would give clear instructions and have players adapt to the opposition and various situations.
Players are inclined to follow orders, because if someone goes out of the instructions, and then makes a mistake, he will bear all the blame. Hence we kept repeating the same crap over and over again.
Douzy losing dangerous ball in front of the box, Sokratis kept playing it from the back, Pepe remained high and hardly helped AMN.

How Emery insisted on playing out from the back and left AMN to hang out dry is a clear indication that he is not flexible and despite glaring issues, he sticks to his poor tactics (whatever they may be, nobody knows)

Manager can have faults but when you Pro player play in top league you can't make these kind of mistakes our players seem making it always since wenger last few years it becoming a habit we need something to fix this before playing nice football our team can score 2-3 goals while playing s**t like yesterday but the bigger problem is still at the back and individual mistakes.

 

[Toby]

But I’m sticking to what I believe. History shows a longer term manager is always more successful. United had been in the top 4, 5 years running, before Ferguson took over, but he finished 11th twice in the first three seasons. Fans were calling for his head but the club stuck by him, only surviving by the skin of his teeth. Here’s the thing, once he got the right squad he was away and flying and suddenly looked the manager he finally turned out to be.

I'm not arguing the bare fact that longterm managers are usually more successfull, but the fact that you can't just pick one and then stick to him no matter what - you gotta find the right guy first before sticking to him.

Secondly, many of our problems are classic ‘quality’ issues. Too slow on the ball, giving the ball away, too slow in the tackle, rash tackles, indecisiveness, pulling shirts. And we have no proof that these mistakes are due to not understanding Emery or Emery’s lack of tactical know how.

Don't think all of these are classic quality issues. From my perspective on the game a lot of these are triggered by systemic issues, e.g. rash tackles, giving the ball away (note: in this frequency), indecisiveness.

And I don't even want to get into the chatter about players not understanding Emery, that's hearsay. I'm strictly talking on field performances and tactics.

 

[balthazar]

We should get Laudrup for the project. Star player with immidiate respect. Did fall of the radar in the last few years. Did well at Getafe and Swansea, maybe not so much in Moscow though. Knows the league, has an attaching philosophy, wants players to express themselves. Can't remember how his teams were defensively, though.
But he always seem to make enemies where he is and maybe doesn't stay in the same place for long. Which might be a problem.