VAR. Is it the answer? Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Football Talk' started by razörist, Sep 16, 2016.

?

Are you for VAR or not?

  1. Yes

    80.0%
  2. No

    20.0%
  1. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Well-Known Member

    Isn't the problem with VAR that it's trying to run after perfection in an imperfect game?

    Football isn't a very rigid, structured sport like Cricket for example. It's very unstructured and multifaceted, over the course of 90 mins 22 players on a large pitch provide an almost infinite number of possibilities and scenarios.

    I know it's tough when a bad decision goes against you, but I tend to err on the side of trying to accept refereeing imperfection as a natural part of the game. I've watched games recently on TV and the ridiculous level of minute focus on millimetres and inches when it comes to ref decisions has become too much. A quarter of a knee is technically offside so HE'S 100% OFFSIDE? Jesus I mean c'mon.

    It's typical human nature, give someone a gadget and they'll use it even if they don't necessarily need to. That's sort of what VAR feels like to me. We have loads of television cameras and studio analysis etc, so football has become an exercise in debating refereeing decisions.

    There's a sort of certainty and clarity in the murkiness of human imperfection. Once you accept that there will be mistakes, you are liberated to not care about attaining perfection and you can concentrate on the actual football.

    I don't predict it will be ditched though. TV has become too integral to the game for such a culture reversal to be allowed to happen, the tail has started to wag the dog.
     
    IslingtonBornandbred likes this.
  2. IslingtonBornandbred

    IslingtonBornandbred Well-Known Member

    Yeah of course. I agree. There are plenty of things in football that can affect the result of a game, little minute details that VAR will never be able to change. Things like having a free-kick in your own half, for the flow of the game the ref will allow the ball to be put down and the freekick to be taken in the general area i.e four yards from the incident.

    On offsides, assistant ref's are now taught that if they think it's just offside or it's tight, it's almost always onside and to keep the flag down. The law of offside was never designed with VAR in mind. Maybe like athletics if they are going to use VAR they should use the torso rule i.e his body or torso is clearly in front of the defender. Someone can be completely level but because he's got a forward lean going and his knee is slightly raised during a sprint, VAR will call it offside. I don't think that was what VAR was intended for, and I think it will later come out as an official directive using the MATA example that in that incident it should have been onside. At least, that's what I am hearing from referee assessors on other forums. There are also issues with pitch markings, camera angles and TV camera's not being exactly in line.

    As I've mentioned, it's all well and good having the idea of VAR but I don't believe it can be implemented properly in its current format and I'd rather they only use it for absolute clear cases of controversy like a hand of god goal. There is an issue with what do you do with the absolutely shocking decision a referee might make every so often.

    I also don't understand the need to rush it rather than work on it on a longer term basis until they figure it out. The fact they are trying to force it through into the World Cup this summer is slightly odd unless they want it to cause mayhem and popular opinion go completely against it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    dashsnow17 likes this.
  3. CurryFlavoured

    CurryFlavoured Well-Known Member

    VAR doesn't have to ruin the flow of the game, only use it for the really big calls. Penalties, red cards and important offside calls that the ref is unsure of. The ref should still be expected to make 95+% of calls on his own, on the spot. It's important to restrict it's use for the sake of the game.

    It'll take time to perfect. It will probably look a bit of a hindrance at times now but that's why it's restricted to the cups. In time it'll become more efficient hopefully and be used in the league.
     
    Jury and say yes like this.
  4. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator

    VAR coming in might also stop referees from being so quick to blow the whistle on close offside decisions. Look at the Aubameyang offside at Wembley, the linesman's flag went straight up so it never got to develop into an actual goal-scoring chance. With VAR, you'd hope that the game continues in that situation and if PEA puts the ball into the net, it gets reviewed to confirm or change the call. If not, the game carries on as normal.
     
    Makingtrax and Toby Andrl like this.
  5. hydrofluoric acid

    hydrofluoric acid Unsinkable !

    Feels like so far the refs are willingly trying to make VAR look bad so it will be disregarded in the end.
     
  6. marblehallstv

    marblehallstv New Member

    bad decisions are part of football, nay sport generally. nothing will ever be perfect in decision-making. That said, each team should have three VAR decisions per game. And if players dive or foul too much, then as punishment they should be denied VAR appeals for a number of games. This includes managers too.
     
  7. ptrcopp

    ptrcopp Active Member

    Thought this deserved a bump after last night. It seemed on Twitter most people were just angry at it, but then that’s what Twitter is about.
    It certainly doesn’t take away the excitement that some said it would!

    Personally, in the first instance, I am happy match changing incidents are being called correctly. On the first goal it looked like 6 of one, but in the replay it appears Llorente starts it and that’s how he gets in front. The correct penalty decision was awarded, and then disallowed (initially given by the ref but would have been checked).
    As I have seen little praise for it recently, I thought I’d start the convo again by playing Devil’s Advocate a little.
     
  8. RichWeath

    RichWeath Member

    I don't think it is, all the trailing has been done, by other sports, football is too ****ing stubborn tobask for advise.
    Just put VAR up on the screen, and Mike up the ref and video ref, that way everyone hears the conversation, we know exactly wether they're confident or not and that no cheating is happening.

    Stop treating fans with contempt and make us part of the atmosphere, tell us what's going on!

    Also if the ref is miked then we have an improved level of respect on the playing field as no swearing and calling ref a ****!

    Simple!
     
    Jury likes this.
  9. baccy_man

    baccy_man Active Member

    VAR can work very well if the ref's use it properly and not use it to take over their decision making,
    It seems so far that some refs have been passing on the responsibility of their job to someone else,
    It could be from fear of making a wrong decision as there is a blame culture for everything these days.
     
  10. say yes

    say yes To RonaldoMadness

    Timing and communication needs to be improved and last night took way too long.

    That being said - every decision last night was correct, again.

    BT’s coverage (foy aside) was awful, again.
     
    Tir Na Nog likes this.
  11. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog Every Little Thing Is Gonna Be Alright

    VAR give decisions against Spurs and everyone loses their ****, standard.
     
    Ewarwoowar and Makingtrax like this.
  12. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Hoping Emery cloud has a silver lining

    The problem is not VAR. The rules are not clear enough.

    Can't count the number of times pundits have finally said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

    The offside rule is a joke and when was the last time you saw the obstruction rule used?
     
    Toby Andrl likes this.
  13. blaze_of_glory

    blaze_of_glory The wheel turns Moderator

    FA doing everything they can do do this as poorly as possible so they can just scrap it imo. Its ****ing easy, other leagues, other sports do it just fine with minimal delay and no fuss.
     
  14. Vinci

    Vinci The Sultan of Unai

    Yeah, at the moment it feels like they are trying to make it look difficult and time-consuming, even though it's incredibly simple.

    Maybe they should consult with some associations of different sports who have used it for years, bunch of incompetent idiots.
     
    Jury and Brown Gooner like this.
  15. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator

  16. Brown Gooner

    Brown Gooner DoN'T ceNsOR maH FreE SpEecH

    Doesn’t surprise me one bit. Sadly England is still in the stone age when it comes to football.

    If VAR was to be introduced United won’t be able to score late offside goals, Spurs won’t be able to win penalties by diving and most importantly the entire PL referee roster (Dean, Atkinson, Marriner, Moss, Oliver, Mason, etc.) would need to be fired.

    IMHO Louise is the best Referee in England. I’ve seen her as a lineswoman in a few games and she has almost always made the right decision.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  17. Brown Gooner

    Brown Gooner DoN'T ceNsOR maH FreE SpEecH

    ^ This.

    If VAR is followed properly and smartly it won’t take much time and will correct 90% of the howlers we are seeing more and more often nowadays from referees. However, if VAR was to be seriously implemented many big teams (United, Real, Barca, etc..) won’t be able to snatch late wins with the help of incorrect officiating.

    Such a shame that football is so damn corrupt and run by greedy oligarchs!
     
    Vinci and Ewarwoowar like this.
  18. ptrcopp

    ptrcopp Active Member

    That is what it isn’t being used for. Only ever to correct the referee when he has made a clear and obvious error (eg offside and mistaken identity) and matched changing incidents.
    I think the main issue is that it is being reviewed after every goal. That isn’t necessary. It was also why the crowd in the spurs game were getting heated; it took a time away from the match they should be watching and ultimately it seemed as if they were looking at something, trying that find anything. That is the only issue I would try and resolve. Maybe for each goal you could give captain/ manager three strikes - ie only checking when there is a complaint.
     
  19. ptrcopp

    ptrcopp Active Member

    The above is my answer to the rejection by the PL. Football has been given the best tech so far and can’t even be bothered to trial it itself.
    The only real hope is that VAR corrects itself because of it
     
  20. Jury

    Jury Mission Accomplished

    I don't see what the problem is with just accepting it wont run perfectly smooth until it eventually does, and you arrive there by persevering with it ffs. Bottom line: It ****ing works.
     
    Brown Gooner and krengon like this.

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