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Victor Wanyama

leo_ense

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

Beñat would be an unbelievable buy, having Arteta, Wilshere, Beñat, Cazorla as our main midfielders is a ridiculous level of talent. Them you've also got the likes of Ramsey, Rosicky and Diaby who when fit are also great options. His contract is up in 2014 and I could definitely see a few premier league clubs moving for him. He's 25 and a move should be on the cards. His current release clause is €20m but with his contract issues I think he could be had for 10-15m euros. Need to get Monreal and Cazorla chasing him up.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

Wanyama is being linked with City, along with Cavani (52M) - Daily Mail.

You'll all say the Daily Mail is bollocks, but its pretty obvious there will be movement with CIty looking for a big attacking signing, I think they'll get Cavani or Falcao.
 

Floating

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

GDeep said:
Wanyama is being linked with City, along with Cavani (52M) - Daily Mail.

You'll all say the Daily Mail is bollocks, but its pretty obvious there will be movement with CIty looking for a big attacking signing, I think they'll get Cavani or Falcao.

I just don't understand how a striker like Cavani or Falcao, two of the hottest properties in Europe, would be willing to be the 2nd or 3rd choice at a club like City. I don't think he would start over Aguero, maybe not even Tevez. How could you keep 4 strikers with the quality of Aguero, Tevez, Cavani and Dzeko all happy in a 1-striker system?
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

Floating said:
GDeep said:
Wanyama is being linked with City, along with Cavani (52M) - Daily Mail.

You'll all say the Daily Mail is bollocks, but its pretty obvious there will be movement with CIty looking for a big attacking signing, I think they'll get Cavani or Falcao.

I just don't understand how a striker like Cavani or Falcao, two of the hottest properties in Europe, would be willing to be the 2nd or 3rd choice at a club like City. I don't think he would start over Aguero, maybe not even Tevez. How could you keep 4 strikers with the quality of Aguero, Tevez, Cavani and Dzeko all happy in a 1-striker system?

Tevez is unhappy, Aguero is 1st choice so Cavani/Dzeko fight it out to be Agueros partner or back up. Wanyama comes in and Barry gets sold or is used solely as a squad option. Can see why City are lining up a CM and ST they could do with another top class CB as well.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

You don't sign Cavani for nearly 60M and have him on the bench, he'll first choice and the new Golden Boy, either alongside Aguero or with Aguero going out wide. Tevez will be off, or on the bench next to Dzeko.

For me Cavani is better than Falcao, better all-round game, would love to see him at Juventus but I think he's too expensive for even them.

Falcao will join Madrid maybe, still whispers about Aguero and Madrid, you are going to see some big striker moves this summer.
 

Giroud

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

jones said:
In possession he'd be great but I'm not convinced he'd solve our issue of having a lightweight midfield. lacking in steel

He's not the tallest, but a very fierce and tough tackling kind of player, think Flamini. We don't need "steel", "heavyweights" or "rocks" in midfield, we need good footballers who are defensively capable.

Spot on jones, the British media love these big ball winners and persistently criticize Arsenal for not having one which is wrong in my opinion. What you need is a balance between good attacking and defensive ability which we clearly do not have as Wilshere and Cazorla aren't helping Arteta enough.

We don't need to go out and buy Capoue, Tiote or Wanyama to fix this, a solid defender to partner Wilshere/Cazorla and Arteta would suffice. A player like Benat or Cabaye would improve our midfield defensively whilst still providing that technical class required to play our game. Both of them would also fit into our inverted midfield in front of Arteta or alongside Arteta in a base of two. I just hope we aren't going to wait for Ramsey to develop into our Benat/Cabaye type.
 

Anzac

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

GDeep said:
You don't sign Cavani for nearly 60M and have him on the bench, he'll first choice and the new Golden Boy, either alongside Aguero or with Aguero going out wide. Tevez will be off, or on the bench next to Dzeko.

For me Cavani is better than Falcao, better all-round game, would love to see him at Juventus but I think he's too expensive for even them.

Falcao will join Madrid maybe, still whispers about Aguero and Madrid, you are going to see some big striker moves this summer.

I don't think Juve can afford the rebuilding spending they've been doing these past 2-3 seasons as it is,
and I suspect they are spending money they don't have similar to LUFC.

There was a report that since about 2005 Juve has lost nearly 30% in revenues since that time - mainly due to their max fixing scandal, failure to qualify for the CL & a loss of TV revenues when Serie A went to collective bargaining.

Their revenues have been quite static for some time (like our own),
and they are heavily reliant upon both the CL revenues and their rich owners to cover their losses (similar to the other Italian Giants).
There is also talk that they want to improve match day revenues by building a bigger stadium.

I haven't seen anything to say that they have drastically reversed their fortunes.
 

mavelous

Tinfoil hat aficionado
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

arteta cabaye would be a decent base, but the problem is the rest of our squad is just made up of not-so-magnificent players. we usually have a world class spine, probably spoiled by cesc. but that's how we used to make up for the inexperience but these days i just don't know. perhaps if wilshere and cazorla truly hit the heights they are capable of, definitely. sounds yummy. not to mention cabaye would be the long-term heir to arteta allowing diaby/ramsey/coq to slot in next to him in time. but you never know just how much defensive stability can be beneficial. ripple effects and such.
 

Anzac

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

GDeep said:
Wanyama is being linked with City, along with Cavani (52M) - Daily Mail.

You'll all say the Daily Mail is bollocks, but its pretty obvious there will be movement with CIty looking for a big attacking signing, I think they'll get Cavani or Falcao.

I thought that Wanyama was a B2B type CM & not a holding player?
If so then he's more likely a succession plan B for Yaya IMO,
rather than a DLP role as for Barry.

With the amounts of creativity behind their ST both City & CFC could 'get away' with using Falcao in a poacher's role & don't really 'need' Cavani as such.

Agreed that Cavani seems to have more in his locker in open play.
 

Anzac

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

mavelous said:
arteta cabaye would be a decent base, but the problem is the rest of our squad is just made up of not-so-magnificent players. we usually have a world class spine, probably spoiled by cesc. but that's how we used to make up for the inexperience but these days i just don't know. perhaps if wilshere and cazorla truly hit the heights they are capable of, definitely. sounds yummy. not to mention cabaye would be the long-term heir to arteta allowing diaby/ramsey/coq to slot in next to him in time. but you never know just how much defensive stability can be beneficial. ripple effects and such.

I don't think AW would buy Cabaye.

He'd become our record signing, would kill the development of Rambo & others, and would probably not be any improvement over the capability of Wilshere & Cazorla, let alone a fit Diaby.
 

evoh_1

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

Giroud said:
jones said:
In possession he'd be great but I'm not convinced he'd solve our issue of having a lightweight midfield. lacking in steel

He's not the tallest, but a very fierce and tough tackling kind of player, think Flamini. We don't need "steel", "heavyweights" or "rocks" in midfield, we need good footballers who are defensively capable.

Spot on jones, the British media love these big ball winners and persistently criticize Arsenal for not having one which is wrong in my opinion. What you need is a balance between good attacking and defensive ability which we clearly do not have as Wilshere and Cazorla aren't helping Arteta enough.

We don't need to go out and buy Capoue, Tiote or Wanyama to fix this, a solid defender to partner Wilshere/Cazorla and Arteta would suffice. A player like Benat or Cabaye would improve our midfield defensively whilst still providing that technical class required to play our game. Both of them would also fit into our inverted midfield in front of Arteta or alongside Arteta in a base of two. I just hope we aren't going to wait for Ramsey to develop into our Benat/Cabaye type.

Being able ot physically dominate plays an important role in balancing a team nad is crucial to have these sort of players in an elite squad, look at who you can play a player like pep or phil jones and get them to disrupt play away from home in a big match. No one wants to throw in the towel and do a stoke but we need physcial players in teh squad to allow us balance in selection and presence at set pieces, especially for a number of games in england each season.

For instance I can imagine games where if we couldn't select diab ywe had to play giroud up front as teh team would have been openned up on corners and free kicks. Thats why you should look to bring in someone who can act as a phsycial presence, ball winner and primarily a defender and build on his game with the ball. I mean look at song and theo both improve beyond hugely at arsenal when initially they looked absolutely garbage with the ball at feet, can that same process not happen with a player like capoue and wanyama?

Both look technically OK already from what I have seen of them so go work with that Arsène.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

mavelous said:
what makes you guys think strootman will improve our defensive/pressing side?

Sometimes, I think that we should just emulate Ferguson and Mourinho and stick a dedicated enforcer in the midfield, such as Pepe or Fletcher. No doubt such a player is likely to be a liability on the ball, but we are desperate for a player who can tackle hard and high up the pitch. If we can start winning the ball in the opponents half on a consistent basis, like Vieira enabled us to do, then our counter-attacking potency will go through the roof.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

Giroud said:
jones said:
In possession he'd be great but I'm not convinced he'd solve our issue of having a lightweight midfield. lacking in steel

He's not the tallest, but a very fierce and tough tackling kind of player, think Flamini. We don't need "steel", "heavyweights" or "rocks" in midfield, we need good footballers who are defensively capable.

Spot on jones, the British media love these big ball winners and persistently criticize Arsenal for not having one which is wrong in my opinion. What you need is a balance between good attacking and defensive ability which we clearly do not have as Wilshere and Cazorla aren't helping Arteta enough.

We don't need to go out and buy Capoue, Tiote or Wanyama to fix this, a solid defender to partner Wilshere/Cazorla and Arteta would suffice. A player like Benat or Cabaye would improve our midfield defensively whilst still providing that technical class required to play our game. Both of them would also fit into our inverted midfield in front of Arteta or alongside Arteta in a base of two. I just hope we aren't going to wait for Ramsey to develop into our Benat/Cabaye type.

I disagree. Technique is the first and foremost factor to be considered, but physicality is a close second when discussing the merits of an enforcer. It's not a coincidence that the best defensively capable midfielders have also been physical beasts. Vieira, Makelele, Gilberto, Keane and co. spring to mind. English football is very reckless and carefree, which leads to countless loose balls and 50-50 duels throughout a game. Technique is not going to help you win those duels, physicality will. Take Diaby as an example who can't defend to save his life, yet his sheer strength and physicality ensures that he wins a decent amount of duels per match. Conversely Cazorla, Wilshere, Fabregas and co. who despite all of their defensive effort, are usually second best when it comes to winning loose balls. There is also a point to be made that intelligence and positioning trumps all, as displayed by Arteta, but you can't deny that a couple of inches and 10+ kg's in weight would turn the Spaniard into being the best DM in the league.
 

Giroud

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

If you want to play this passing game we're employing at the moment our midfield needs to be technically strong. We need to strike that balance between the attacking and defensive ability. Viera was a good footballer as well as beast in the tackle. I just can't see how a player like Wanyama would fit into our current style even if he creates more counter attacking opportunities, chances are he would be encouraged to play a short passing game which is not his strong point. Players need to pass a certain level technically to get into this Arsenal midfield which is why I don't think we look to buy specialist ball winners. We need more from our midfielders. A lot of people seem to think Wanyama, Capoue and Tiote would solve our defensive issues but like you say technique is the most important factor, solid defenders with good technique are a lot harder to find.

edit: One other thing, would you not include physicality as defensive ability? What I mean is we need to strike that balance between defensive and attacking ability.
 

jones

Captain Serious
Trusted ⭐
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

Anzac said:
There is also talk that they want to improve match day revenues by building a bigger stadium.

You sure about that? They just moved into a new stadium about a year ago, which was only built in the first place because the Stadio delle Alpi was too big to fill for them. Would be a very strange, not to say ridiculous move.
 

ArsenesNO1Fan

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

jones said:
ArsenesNO1Fan said:
In reality Strootman's price won't be close to 22m and Wanyama won't be close to 15m. It's all reminiscent of last year, when M'Vila was being talked about being sold for 22m or 17m and in the end goes for what 6m? The club is responsible for the price that's quoted and neither are getting close to that money for players that are playing in championship level leagues

M'Vila was a special case though, his price didn't plummet like that for no reason. Even if it's not the full 22m, I can definitely see Strootman moving for 15m or more.

Benat may not be a whole lot cheaper if at all. Benat is a class player and a younger Arteta, but the questions I have about him in our set up would be: does he have the characteristics to be a midfield enforcer? Does he have the engine to play B2B in the higher paced PL? At a shade under 6'0 is he going to win much in the air for us?

Reckon Benat might go for as little as 10m, maybe even less, since he has just one year left on his contract. Pretty sure he has the engine to play B2B in the EPL, if his engine stands out in La Liga chances are he'll be alright in England as well. He's not much like Arteta imo, there aren't many players I would compare him to but think someone in the mould of Khedira, maybe less physical but with better passing range.

In possession he'd be great but I'm not convinced he'd solve our issue of having a lightweight midfield. lacking in steel

He's not the tallest, but a very fierce and tough tackling kind of player, think Flamini. We don't need "steel", "heavyweights" or "rocks" in midfield, we need good footballers who are defensively capable.

Wanyama while raw would tick allot of those boxes, as does Strootman, as does Lars Bender. Capoue I don't think looks to have the ceiling of those 3 and would likely be decent but nothing to write home about but would give us a ball winning shift I suppose. My wishlist would probably be any 3 of Bender, Strootman and Wanyama in that order.

Wanyama is a great athlete, but not that much of a footballer imo. Yesterday's game showed his weaknesses up, he'd often be in a situation with us attacking against a team that's happy to sit back, and he won't be able to do jack **** in that case. Can't see how you'd want Bender over Benat if it's steel you're looking for, he's a bigger lightweight than the Basque CM. Capoué would do well in our setup as well, not as much of a footballer as Bender or Benat but defensively probably better than both.

I'm not sure M'Vila was a special case, I don't think anyone was ever prepared to go over 12m for him. But yea Strootman does look a bit special and might go for around 15m

While size isn't everything, being able to defend is and at the moment our midfield doesn't break up attacks quick enough. Arteta actually has significantly better tackling/inteceptions stats than Benat.

Benat averages 2 tackles and 1.3 inteceptions per game, we really need someone winning the ball more than this, hence I don't think he's what we need, not that he isn't a good player. Bender averages 4.5 tackles and 2.7 inteceptions per game, he covers allot of ground too
 

Anzac

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

jones said:
Anzac said:
There is also talk that they want to improve match day revenues by building a bigger stadium.

You sure about that? They just moved into a new stadium about a year ago, which was only built in the first place because the Stadio delle Alpi was too big to fill for them. Would be a very strange, not to say ridiculous move.

My bad - was referring to a report based after the 2011 financials.

Although their move does raise further questions as to just how they have been able to fund/afford their spending these past 3 seasons AND fund a new stadium with reduced capacity - as the report suggested they wanted to improve match day gates & revenues because of their level of debt.
 

Wouterus

Well-Known Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

Juventus did increase matchday and commercial revenues significantly:

"The club’s impressive financial performance was driven by increases in matchday and commercial revenue of €20.2m (174%) and €19.4m (36%) respectively. Despite playing four fewer home matches than in the 2010/11 season, matchday revenue almost trebled, from €11.6m to €31.8m (£25.7m), as the club enjoyed the benefits of its new €150m 41,000 capacity Juventus Stadium home. The move from the Stadio Olimpico saw average home league match attendances increase by 13,789 (63%), from 21,966 to 35,755 and average matchday revenue increase from €0.4m to €1.4m per game."
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedKingdom/Local%20Assets/Documents/Industries/Sports%20Business%20Group/uk-sbg-football-money-league-2013.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Uni ... e-2013.pdf</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new stadium was relatively cheap, probably because it was built on the site of the old stadium (Stadio Delle Alpi). Juve already owned this ground.
 

Anzac

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

Wouterus said:
Juventus did increase matchday and commercial revenues significantly:

"The club’s impressive financial performance was driven by increases in matchday and commercial revenue of €20.2m (174%) and €19.4m (36%) respectively. Despite playing four fewer home matches than in the 2010/11 season, matchday revenue almost trebled, from €11.6m to €31.8m (£25.7m), as the club enjoyed the benefits of its new €150m 41,000 capacity Juventus Stadium home. The move from the Stadio Olimpico saw average home league match attendances increase by 13,789 (63%), from 21,966 to 35,755 and average matchday revenue increase from €0.4m to €1.4m per game."
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedKingdom/Local%20Assets/Documents/Industries/Sports%20Business%20Group/uk-sbg-football-money-league-2013.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Uni ... e-2013.pdf</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new stadium was relatively cheap, probably because it was built on the site of the old stadium (Stadio Delle Alpi). Juve already owned this ground.

Not wanting this to get further off track,
but even those increases do not seem enough to fund what they have been doing.
They were already having record losses for a number of seasons with falling revenues;
they have a new 150m stadium which is about the same debt we have left;
and these improvements are about half what we do in comparison.
I still do not see how they can spend have net spends of 37m 12/13,
71m 11/12, 23m 10/11, 39m 09/10, 8m 08/09, 37m 07/08.
They made a market profit of 71m in 06/07 when they were relegated as a result of match fixing, but they've spent 160m PLUS in the 4 seasons since they regained promotion AND have a new 150m stadium on top of their previous record losses and debt.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/juventus-fc/transfers/verein_506_2006_default_default_alle_a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/juven ... lle_a.html</a>

I'm waiting for the bubble to burst - maybe they're thinking that FFP can't work as they'd exclude most of Serie A & not just the Giants?
 

leo_ense

Established Member
Re: Wanyama (watched by scouts)

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/302883/Arsène-Wenger-to-step-up-efforts-to-land-Victor-Wanyama" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/3 ... or-Wanyama</a>
 
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