Viktor Gyokeres: The Swedest Thing

[Rasmi]

One day, it might be this year or even the next. But one day, when Ornstein or James McNicholas are free to divulge more about Arsenal..

It will come to light that one of our major attacking targets opted not to join the club because they had grave concerns about the attacking play under Arteta.

When that day comes you guys will never hear the end of it from me. Will record a vid actually, incase I am dead.

Tbh it’s not gonna be a surprise to any sane person. Just as I think our set up would excite any defensive players. I expect some attacking players to have concerns

 

[HattoriHanzo]

One day, it might be this year or even the next. But one day, when Ornstein or James McNicholas are free to divulge more about Arsenal..

It will come to light that one of our major attacking targets opted not to join the club because they had grave concerns about the attacking play under Arteta.

When that day comes you guys will never hear the end of it from me. Will record a vid actually, incase I am dead.

The reason why Vinicius , Alvarez or Raphinha didn't want to come to Arsenal is because Real and Barcelona have stronger pull than Arsenal.
They are from South America, every player from South America dreams to play for Real or Barcelona.

No club in the world has the pull like Real and Barcelona.

Nothing to do with grave concerns about attacking play.
By the way, Arsenal record in scoring goals in EPL was season 2023/24, 91 goals.
Under Arteta.

 

[Thrice]

The fact that he didn't get a single minute of game time before the transfer window closed suggests that the club was preparing for him to leave and it just didn't come to fruition because we couldn't secure Alvarez.

He's definitely on borrowed time at this point and performances like yesterday don't exactly help his case.

 

[Uncle Macho]

Tbh it’s not gonna be a surprise to any sane person. Just as I think our set up would excite any defensive players. I expect some attacking players to have concerns

lol until it’s spelled out by specific people, the tropes of “money is the only thing that matters” or the players aren’t good enough will be used to dismiss legitimate concerns.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Arsenal attackers have also scored in Europe under Arteta. It's not just a system thing, the level is just not the same.

Martinelli's goal per 90 in the CL from 23/24 and up until his departure was almost double in the CL of what it was in the PL, 0.43 and 0.25 respectively.

In comparison, Gyokeres rate (excluding penalties) dropped from 0.80 to 0.59 in the same period (pre-Arsenal) when he had to play in the CL instead of the Portuguese league.

In general, Gyokeres numbers in terms of goals per 90 fall pretty much right where you'd expect them to be when adjusting for the difference in level. And they aren't terrible, they're just.. okay?

I agree the PL is stronger than early stage CL and all other leagues. But it is Arteta's tactics too. He makes his wingers drop back like fullbacks.

Watching Pepe and Aubameyang score and play well annoyed me. Auba has scored 4 goals and 2 assists in 4 La Liga games at the age of 38, being prolific at Barce and Marseille to a degree too after he left. If Arteta treated Auba the way Slott gave Salah licence to focus on the attacking third we could have had a prolific goalscorer for a few more years

With Gyokeres if your players are not looking for his runs with balls to run onto or cut backs you never should have bought him.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

lol until it’s spelled out by specific people, the tropes of “money is the only thing that matters” or the players aren’t good enough will be used to dismiss legitimate concerns.

Has any club ever succeeded to bring the player from Real Madrid when they didn't want to sell him?

 

[Trilly]

I agree the PL is stronger than early stage CL and all other leagues. But it is Arteta's tactics too. He makes his wingers drop back like fullbacks.

Watching Pepe and Aubameyang score and play well annoyed me. Auba has scored 4 goals and 2 assists in 4 La Liga games at the age of 38, being prolific at Barce and Marseille to a degree too after he left. If Arteta treated Auba the way Slott gave Salah licence to focus on the attacking third we could have had a prolific goalscorer for a few more years

With Gyokeres if your players are not looking for his runs with balls to run onto or cut backs you never should have bought him.

Pepe is a controversial example even though I agree with you.

Auba is the perfect example though, one of the greatest strikers of his generation but just not the kind of forward that works with Arteta. I do think he’d do better in this current team though.

I think Arteta’s system isn’t plug and play for attackers in comparison to someone like Wenger or Klopp who could probably get me to score five league goals in the prem

 

[Sapient Hawk]

One day, it might be this year or even the next. But one day, when Ornstein or James McNicholas are free to divulge more about Arsenal..

It will come to light that one of our major attacking targets opted not to join the club because they had grave concerns about the attacking play under Arteta.

When that day comes you guys will never hear the end of it from me. Will record a vid actually, incase I am dead.

I see someone's been watching Invincible recently.

 

[Rasmi]

lol until it’s spelled out by specific people, the tropes of “money is the only thing that matters” or the players aren’t good enough will be used to dismiss legitimate concerns.

Yeah but those people are lost causes. Arteta by nature is a defensive manager and defensive players will always thrive more than attackers. Now if you are elite you will be fine. But a good attacker can be made to look better and produce more in an accommodating system. We don’t have that. I like Havertz, but as a striker Auba is a level above for example. But Teta would always choose Havertz over him

 

[Uncle Macho]

I see someone's been watching Invincible recently.

I got lucky with the reference haven’t watched in ages.

 

[Bloodbather]

He's an elite finisher with an elite shot and makes good runs inbehind. The problem is we don't play through balls and we tried to bulk him up, which makes him slower so his acceleration is worse.

It would of been better for him if he went to a smaller club to play a Jamie Vardy role.

It's been established at this point that he's only effective when he has acres of space to operate in, which was suspected to be the case by many of us when he got linked. His excellent finishing ability is rendered moot when he can't get into positions to take those shots. The "we don't play to his strengths" argument was always BS, we'd have to be a mid-table team or play in the Portuguese league to play to his strengths.

Just not agile or quick enough. I've been saying basically since he joined that he'd benefit from cutting some weight, but he seems to prefer the wrestler style.

He'll still score goals when the conditions are favorable, like when we're countering a team while up, or playing a high possession team in the CL, but he'll never offer what an all-arounder like Kai does. He's firmly the backup striker at this point and we'd do well to move him on next summer before his value tanks.

 

[Bloodbather]

40 goals in 500 games suggests not.

Don’t mistake a super sub for a proven striker.

Merino never played as a CF until Arteta tried him there, so his career stats are pretty irrelevant. He wasn't even an advanced midfielder for most of his career and even played CB for Dortmund early on.

It's pretty clear that he's much better at replicating what Kai does and therefore is a better like-for-like replacement for him. Gyök offers a different attribute set that requires a change in approach to be effective, one that's only suitable for certain games.

 

[Batman]

They'll be a few less people posting on this thread in a month or so out of humility.
Second season once he gets in the team he'll rarely be out..
Liking havertz this season but the press isn't there like it is with gyokeres but hope we can utilise the both of them to sew up this title charge

I have a lot of time for Gyok's effort but our press has been excellent to start the season, even missing Timber and with Tzolis not as experienced in that part of the game as Trossard and Nelli. Right now, there's very little to complain about with Havertz in or out of possession.

 

[lomekian]

The reason why Vinicius , Alvarez or Raphinha didn't want to come to Arsenal is because Real and Barcelona have stronger pull than Arsenal.
They are from South America, every player from South America dreams to play for Real or Barcelona.

No club in the world has the pull like Real and Barcelona.

Nothing to do with grave concerns about attacking play.
By the way, Arsenal record in scoring goals in EPL was season 2023/24, 91 goals.
Under Arteta.

Yeah, losing out to the biggest 2 clubs in the world is no shame. Hell, they are so big, that bar Atleti, the rest of Spain just bend over and take it, getting pennies on the pound in TV money. And as you say, in latin America they are the ultimate goal. Players like Pires and Califiori turning them down for us is a rare thing

 

[Sapient Hawk]

The reason why Vinicius , Alvarez or Raphinha didn't want to come to Arsenal is because Real and Barcelona have stronger pull than Arsenal.
They are from South America, every player from South America dreams to play for Real or Barcelona.

No club in the world has the pull like Real and Barcelona.

Nothing to do with grave concerns about attacking play.
By the way, Arsenal record in scoring goals in EPL was season 2023/24, 91 goals.
Under Arteta.

I don't think @Uncle Macho is talking about any South American players. If anything, I'd guess he's talking about players whom we tracked & were looking at but, amazingly enough, all ended up at United & a few others further afield.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

I don't think @Uncle Macho is talking about any South American players. If anything, I'd guess he's talking about players whom we tracked & were looking at but, amazingly enough, all ended up at United & a few others further afield.

Only attackers who refused to come to Arsenal are Raphinha and Alvarez.
You can probably count Vinicius, but he was already in Real.
Who else refused to come to Arsenal under Arteta?

 

[Sapient Hawk]

Only attackers who refused to come to Arsenal are Raphinha and Alvarez.
You can probably count Vinicius, but he was already in Real.
Who else refused to come to Arsenal under Arteta?

No one said refused, but simply players who felt they'd suit other clubs style of play better.

Vinicius, per Ornstein's briefings, was actually interested in coming here. It's just that none of us expected Real to actually swallow their pride and meet him in the middle.

 

[lomekian]

I agree the PL is stronger than early stage CL and all other leagues. But it is Arteta's tactics too. He makes his wingers drop back like fullbacks.

Watching Pepe and Aubameyang score and play well annoyed me. Auba has scored 4 goals and 2 assists in 4 La Liga games at the age of 38, being prolific at Barce and Marseille to a degree too after he left. If Arteta treated Auba the way Slott gave Salah licence to focus on the attacking third we could have had a prolific goalscorer for a few more years

With Gyokeres if your players are not looking for his runs with balls to run onto or cut backs you never should have bought him.

Equally if Auba had taken the captaincy seriously...you can get away with crappy timekeeping etc when you are producing at an elite level, and not the figurehead, but....Now in retrospect I think part of his struggles in his last year with us were due to outside stuff, but for whatever reason his whole game kind of fell apart. But that's been his career. Prolific for the most part, with the odd season just looking like he's done, and then coming back in a different environment. Like the way he was scoring again at Barca but at Chelsea looked like a sprightly pensioner, and then scored goals for fun in France.

And worth remembering that the way Slot treated Salah, saw Salah have an amazing season and then fall off a cliff, walk away from £400k a week and torch the manager on the way out, so not the best comparison.

As for Pepe, his finishing has always been fantastic - just the rest of his game is so bloody inconsistent, he's just not a top level player. Even for Villareal he only got 11 goals in 2 years, and none in Europe. At a lower fee he'd have been worth the gamble we made, because there is nearly a great player there. But when he openly admitted he didn't see the point in tracking back....then he needs to have double the output he does to play in a top side.

 

[lomekian]

Pepe is a controversial example even though I agree with you.

Auba is the perfect example though, one of the greatest strikers of his generation but just not the kind of forward that works with Arteta. I do think he’d do better in this current team though.

I think Arteta’s system isn’t plug and play for attackers in comparison to someone like Wenger or Klopp who could probably get me to score five league goals in the prem

Wenger could have got a dustbin 5 EPL goals...don't do yourself down...

 

[Trilly]

Wenger could have got a dustbin 5 EPL goals...don't do yourself down...

Yep

Whereas I don’t think Arteta’s system kills all forwards. I just think it either makes them or breaks them depending on their attributes.