Viktor Gyokeres: The Swedest Thing

[africe]

How many minutes has he played this season before last night? Maybe 30?

Let’s not pretend like he’s the first player to ever look rusty when he’s not played for a while. He’s likely a guy that needs a lot of minutes to get any rhythm into his game.

He started against Napoli and looked similarly anonymous with the rest of the team getting on the end of chances for fun. It's really not looking great at the moment.

 

[BBF]

Watched that a few times and every time I look at a different teammates reactions, they all just look so visibly pissed off with him.
It’s not looking good for him

They're genuinely fuming.

 

[scytheavatar]

What that is more damning than the fan hate on Gyokeres is the hate and distrust that his teammates seem to have for him. It seems no one trusts Gyokeres and want to pass to him, while they are trying to pass the ball to Dowman in every opportunity.

 

[Uncle Macho]

At some point you've got to accept it's not the system, it's not his teammates, the player is just far too limited to be a real success at this level.

Yeah that old chestnut. I dunno what player or how many it’s going to take, but eventually accountability is going to have to be beyond the player at some point.

These players from other leagues you guys can spin this stuff, but look at the state of Eze man.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Yeah that old chestnut. I dunno what player or how many it’s going to take, but eventually accountability is going to have to be beyond the player at some point.

These players from other leagues you guys can spin this stuff, but look at the state of Eze man.

But what are we taking accountability for?

The system works and probably enhances 95% of our players and it's proven successful.

The two players that are struggling a little currently is probably the least technically adept in our squad and one who struggles playing high intensity football, particularly the defensive side.

I think to make it here you have to have a certain level of technical ability and a certain level of intensity/ work rate. The players who won't or can't reach those levels are going to fall by the wayside.

 

[RacingPhoton]

I am aware of his technical limitations. I think he is an average striker who tries to make up for it with his mentality. But he is definitely not this bad. Games like yesterday are the ones I would expect him to stat pad his goal count. Looks like something went wrong behind the scenes.

 

[Uncle Macho]

But what are we taking accountability for?

The system works and probably enhances 95% of our players and it's proven successful.

So is Konsa world class? Or is he a good player who’s slotted into an established and well coached defensive unit?

Have you never asked why we can’t take a good attacking players from other teams and do the same?

Why do they have to be technical and have intensity I.e perfect? How many of these types have you seen?

What happens if Vini who isn’t intense or Mbappe who only cares about scoring joins? Do they get benched by Havertz and you say oh well they aren’t good enough?

Why is it easier to rule out players that wouldn’t work under Arteta rather than name players that would?

When are we going to atleast question that Arteta is a young manager who might not have attack down to a science like he has in defence?

Ultimately what I mean by accountability. You and many others don’t do this enough in my opinion.

 

[MikelHadADream]

I am aware of his technical limitations. I think he is an average striker who tries to make up for it with his mentality. But he is definitely not this bad. Games like yesterday are the ones I would expect him to stat pad his goal count. Looks like something went wrong behind the scenes.

Yesterday was no different to a lot of the performances he put in last season.

Check is performances out against Hull, Brentford, Forest ect.

 

[Thrice]

I wonder if Arteta thought he could coach some versatility into him. You just can't start Gyokeres and expect him to play like Havertz. He can't do that.
He's a fox in the box and that's how we have to utilise him if we want to get anything out of him.

 

[MikelHadADream]

I wonder if Arteta thought he could coach some versatility into him. You just can't start Gyokeres and expect him to play like Havertz. He can't do that.
He's a fox in the box and that's how we have to utilise him if we want to get anything out of him.

It’s not a coaching or system issue with Gyokeres and never has been.

Mikel got the absolute most he could have from him last season. It was actually an over performance from both Mik and Gyok in terms of what the player managed to produce.

 

[MikelHadADream]

I wonder if Arteta thought he could coach some versatility into him. You just can't start Gyokeres and expect him to play like Havertz. He can't do that.
He's a fox in the box and that's how we have to utilise him if we want to get anything out of him.

He’s not a fox in the box either, his box movement his horrendous:

 

[Uncle Macho]

I wonder if Arteta thought he could coach some versatility into him. You just can't start Gyokeres and expect him to play like Havertz. He can't do that.

Well he’s obviously trying to because he wasn’t making ghost passes before to my knowledge.

Something has obviously gotten into him.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

So is Konsa world class? Or is he a good player who’s slotted into an established and well coached defensive unit?

Have you never asked why we can’t take a good attacking players from other teams and do the same?

Why do they have to be technical and have intensity I.e perfect? How many of these types have you seen?

What happens if Vini who isn’t intense or Mbappe who only cares about scoring joins? Do they get benched by Havertz and you say oh well they aren’t good enough?

Why is it easier to rule out players that wouldn’t work under Arteta rather than name players that would?

When are we going to atleast question that Arteta is a young manager who might not have attack down to a science like he has in defence?

Ultimately what I mean by accountability. You and many others don’t do this enough in my opinion.

You really compare Mbappe and Vinicius with Gyokeres?

Vinicius and Mbappe are known top level players who deserve the system to be built around them.
I'm 100% certain that Arteta and our other players would be ready to adapt our system in order to accomodate Mbappe or Vinicius because they will guarantee you goals and assists.
They both are technically very capable.

What do you suggest?
We should abandon our system in order to accommodate 28 yrs old guy who came from Portuguese league and is obviously technically very limited player?

 

[DanDare]

So is Konsa world class? Or is he a good player who’s slotted into an established and well coached defensive unit?

Have you never asked why we can’t take a good attacking players from other teams and do the same?

Why do they have to be technical and have intensity I.e perfect? How many of these types have you seen?

What happens if Vini who isn’t intense or Mbappe who only cares about scoring joins? Do they get benched by Havertz and you say oh well they aren’t good enough?

Why is it easier to rule out players that wouldn’t work under Arteta rather than name players that would?

When are we going to atleast question that Arteta is a young manager who might not have attack down to a science like he has in defence?

Ultimately what I mean by accountability. You and many others don’t do this enough in my opinion.

I don't disagree with this at all but the solution is not clear at all. How do you gently oscillate away from a formula that won us the league and got us a PK away from CL champions?

No doubt there's a path to even better performance but there are many more paths towards worse performance IMO. Tricky one to navigate

 

[MikelHadADream]

He started against Napoli and looked similarly anonymous with the rest of the team getting on the end of chances for fun. It's really not looking great at the moment.

Forgot about that game.

 

[Jasard]

Yeah that old chestnut. I dunno what player or how many it’s going to take, but eventually accountability is going to have to be beyond the player at some point.

These players from other leagues you guys can spin this stuff, but look at the state of Eze man.

Palace fans say this is exactly what he was like, takes ages to get in to a season. Teams also left more space for Palace. Seems to do better with a run in the team instead of being in and out so not sure how much better it will get for him.

Similar for Gyok as if you go and watch comps of him in Portugal he had literally 10x more space to play in. It's gone off a cliff this season it seems because Arteta / the club ****ed something up with him in the transfer window. Don't think he can be bothered to be a wrestler at a club that tried to move him.

Not saying it can't also be a coaching thing on top btw as I couldn't stand how we attacked last couple of seasons.

 

[Uncle Macho]

How do you gently oscillate away from a formula that won us the league and got us a PK away from CL champions?

Admittedly you don’t, you raise a good point.

No doubt there's a path to even better performance but there are many more paths towards worse performance IMO. Tricky one to navigate

Agreed. There is a noticeable effort to be more front footed. My only frustration is too many times Arteta’s selection methods and the fall out from them (loss of confidence and etc) is too often attributed to the players not good enough. There’s far more nuance.

Getting benched by Havertz is soul destroying for many players I would imagine. Ødegaard wouldn’t look too hot on the right wing, but these things aren’t taken into account.

 

[MikelHadADream]

I don't disagree with this at all but the solution is not clear at all. How do you gently oscillate away from a formula that won us the league and got us a PK away from CL champions?

No doubt there's a path to even better performance but there are many more paths towards worse performance IMO. Tricky one to navigate

We’re on that path to better performance. We’ve largely solved an issue we had last season with ball progression through the center of the pitch with the addition of Bruno, MLS in CM and Ødegaard’s and Kai’s return to fitness.

Gyok still has the same issue as he had last year, he’s fundamentally not at this level.

 

[Iwobeast]

Was hoping he’d kick on in his 2nd year with a full preseason this time, but it’s not looking good.

I guess it’s just very difficult to bring in a 28 year old who has played his whole career at a much lower level, and expect him to simply adjust to the highest level of football.

He can whack a ball really hard, granted he has enough time and space, which he simply doesn’t get at this level. Even movement in the box is subpar, simple runs to create separation from his marker are alien to him. And that’s because he simply didn’t have to, he could just bully defenders in Portugal and had acres of space to operate in.

His stats were decent his first season but I feel like the 14 goals were papering over the cracks a bit. I haven’t been impressed with his goal catalogue and he had lots of games where he didn’t register a single shot.

I do feel a bit sorry for him. He went from being one of the most feared strikers in Europe to the bench at Arsenal, that must have hugely knocked his confidence. It would be best if he moves in Jan to a club in Spain or Italy. I’m sure he can be a really good player elsewhere but it’s not going to work here unfortunately.

 

[<<reed>>]

With Kai and Merino fit everyone knew Gyok would become almost obsolete.
Kinda weird we didn't see rumors about selling him last summer, the only one I remember was about including him in the Alvarez deal?