Was the Arsenal fanbase too hard on Giroud - France's all time leading goalscorer?

[DJ_Markstar]

He is and was a donkey, now more at his level in Seria A. A world cup winning striker without a world cup goal, somewhat somes up how he was lucky to have as many winners medals as he does.

He would be okay if he wasn't the main striker but a rotational/bench option. Maybe have Ibrah or Auba or Higuain as alternatives signed years before when we could of got them, ie Ibrah leaving Barce, Auba leaving France, Higuain leaving Real. The season we moved Alexis to false 9 was such a relief.

He's the lamppost that allows you to skip the technical play in midfield (if desired) and go for a more direct approach with power players, which makes you tactically unpredictable, especially with Mbappe and Griezmann near him who are (all three) completely different types of forward to each other.

His lack of goals literally didn't matter, since France had goalscorers flanking him and their midfield could then focus on nullifying the opposition midfield knowing a simple ball to Olivier Lamppost and they're in on the backline.

I used to hate watching him play for us but he's sure as hell effective if you want to play to his strengths and have the right players around him to take advantage.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Too hard on EPL Champion, World Cup winner, CL winner, three time FA Cup winner, double FA-Cup-winning-goal-assister, 100-goals-for-Arsenal, Serie A-bossing-as-an-old-man, soon-to-be-all-time-top-scorer-for-France Olivier Giroud?

 

[Riou]

I rate Giroud, and agree with your post...

soon-to-be-all-time-top scorer for France

...but the Henry fanboy that I am will never get over this

 

[Mitch]

No not harsh enough.

The amount of missed chances was unbelievable.

The slowing down of many our attacking movements was often a hindrance.

The constant winning of headers just to knock it straight to a opposition player was extremely frustrating.

The constant diving and play acting was embarrassing.

Giroud form was sole reason Özil didn't break Henry's assist record despite only few off it in the early part of the season.


Up there with Diaby, Bellerin, Song and Ramsey as one our most overrated players ever.

 

[Goonnar]

He scored 17,22,19,24 and 16 goals in the first 5 seasons with us (6th season he didn’t play much). Played without much injury during his time and was pretty reliable at goal scoring. If I recall correctly, he wasn’t the preferred penalty kick taker (Alexis and Arteta took the most). I think this is a great set of stats for a guy with not much pace.

I think his limitations were not compensated well by the manager in bringing in a pacy striker which sometime we needed against elite teams. If only we had got Suarez or someone else, i think the fans wouldn’t give him so much hate. I think he was very decent for us, not great though

 

[Nunowoolmez]

No not harsh enough.

The amount of missed chances was unbelievable.

The slowing down of many our attacking movements was often a hindrance.

The constant winning of headers just to knock it straight to a opposition player was extremely frustrating.

The constant diving and play acting was embarrassing.

Giroud form was sole reason Özil didn't break Henry's assist record despite only few off it in the early part of the season.


Up there with Diaby, Bellerin, Song and Ramsey as one our most overrated players ever.

This

 

[Riou]

It's pretty much down to him not being a great CF like Henry/Van Persie (though he did have the better overall career than Robin, tbh) he was a very good striker just not at that level.

Did well at Arsenal, all things considered...not winning the league in 2016, is on the club and not him... though despite not scoring for like half a season, he still ended that year with almost 25 goals... that's weirdly amazing

Good to see he's still fond of the club...



...think he knows he was wrong for the "thank you Arsenal" after the Europa final in.2019, I think that was just his frustration at being deemed surplus to requirements here in 2018 and how hated/mocked he was by half our fanbase during his time here.

If we end up playing Milan in the Europa, hope he gets a good reception.

 

[Maybe]

This

There is a like button if you agree rather than making a useless post where your whole contribution is "this"

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Did well at Arsenal, all things considered...not winning the league in 2016, is on the club and not him... though despite not scoring for like half a season, he still ended that year with almost 25 goals... that's weirdly amazing

He sure had his part in us not winning the league in 2016. His long dry spell helped kill us, losing all momentum and falling away. Özil was putting them on a plate and he just couldn't put them away! No honestly, think he got more out of the club than we out of him.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

There is a like button if you agree rather than making a useless post where your whole contribution is "this"

This

 

[Bloodbather]

He's the lamppost that allows you to skip the technical play in midfield (if desired) and go for a more direct approach with power players, which makes you tactically unpredictable, especially with Mbappe and Griezmann near him who are (all three) completely different types of forward to each other.

His lack of goals literally didn't matter, since France had goalscorers flanking him and their midfield could then focus on nullifying the opposition midfield knowing a simple ball to Olivier Lamppost and they're in on the backline.

I used to hate watching him play for us but he's sure as hell effective if you want to play to his strengths and have the right players around him to take advantage.

Giroud's role in the World Cup winning France side is an excellent litmus test for tactical understanding of the game.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Giroud's role in the World Cup winning France side is an excellent litmus test for tactical understanding of the game.

Tend to agree with you but ufff

a) this is hugely overrating the tactical sophistication of Deschamps' system--or its efficacy for that matter (let's be honest, France produced rather dreadful football in that World Cup, and as happens in tournaments, won through a combination of nice goals / finishing in crucial moments and uninspiring opposition)--and the sophistication of tactical systems in general on the international level

b) Just no. Tonnes of narrative fallacy involved here, again, cup tournaments, this always happens...a kick of the ball goes the other way in one of those games and everyone would be lambasting Deschamps' poor football and Giroud's poor influence. The reality is many, many strikers in world football could've produced a better impact than Giroud in that tournament, and if France won the tournament people would be praising what their qualities allowed France to do tactically...it gets praised not because of tactical understanding, but as said, narrative fallacy because France won the tournament, which just isn't that powerful in explanatory / interpretation terms because their football was largely **** and wouldn't win the tournament many times if you replayed it 100, despite having an extremely talented squad, it's all just ex post facto.

The reality is we all watched that tournament and nor France was good really nor was Giroud. Sorry, but I am not praising a striker's impact on a tactical system when a) the tactical system wasn't good and had no real interesting results whatsoever in terms of control of matches or attacking fluidity (a good tactical system achieves both, or at the very least one, ie a Conté system might sometimes cede some control of matches but will always achieve some really interesting verticality and attacking results, a Simeone system might cede some attacking fluidity but usually has very good control of spaces and structure defensively--you didn't see either of these things in France's play) and b) the attacking prowess and results weren't good.

 

[Nunowoolmez]

To answer the question, in my opinion, absolutely NOT !

He was never better than 1/3 for us & his total ineffectiveness cost us the league when Leicester won it.

He was capable of doing some nice touches & scored some great goals & he lived off that.

The fact we tried to sign Suarez & Higuain a season after we bought him tells you all you need to know.

@Maybe

Maybe you missed my contribution yesterday.

Also. Chill out. It's just a forum.

 

[Nunowoolmez]

There is a like button if you agree rather than making a useless post where your whole contribution is "this"

This

 

[Bloodbather]

Tend to agree with you but ufff

a) this is hugely overrating the tactical sophistication of Deschamps' system--or its efficacy for that matter (let's be honest, France produced rather dreadful football in that World Cup, and as happens in tournaments, won through a combination of nice goals / finishing in crucial moments and uninspiring opposition)--and the sophistication of tactical systems in general on the international level

b) Just no. Tonnes of narrative fallacy involved here, again, cup tournaments, this always happens...a kick of the ball goes the other way in one of those games and everyone would be lambasting Deschamps' poor football and Giroud's poor influence. The reality is many, many strikers in world football could've produced a better impact than Giroud in that tournament, and if France won the tournament people would be praising what their qualities allowed France to do tactically...it gets praised not because of tactical understanding, but as said, narrative fallacy because France won the tournament, which just isn't that powerful in explanatory / interpretation terms because their football was largely **** and wouldn't win the tournament many times if you replayed it 100, despite having an extremely talented squad, it's all just ex post facto.

The reality is we all watched that tournament and nor France was good really nor was Giroud. Sorry, but I am not praising a striker's impact on a tactical system when a) the tactical system wasn't good and had no real interesting results whatsoever in terms of control of matches or attacking fluidity (a good tactical system achieves both, or at the very least one, ie a Conté system might sometimes cede some control of matches but will always achieve some really interesting verticality and attacking results, a Simeone system might cede some attacking fluidity but usually has very good control of spaces and structure defensively--you didn't see either of these things in France's play) and b) the attacking prowess and results weren't good.

I reject the claim that my opinion on France's World Cup winning side are ex post facto, because I picked them to win the World Cup before it happened, and I did it while being of the opinion that they should play a defensive, direct football style. I wasn't on the forum then, but the friends I talk ball with could testify to that.

Deschamps does get a lot of stick, including from me at this point because he's grossly underutilizing the team's ability, but that, for me, wasn't the case in 2018. You want to emphasize your team's strengths. France's strength in that particular tournament was their immense physicality and athleticism in defense and midfield, and ability to counter effectively. That "boring", "uninspiring" style of football was exactly what France needed to do to edge out technically superior sides like Argentina, Belgium and Croatia. As pointed out by @DJ_Markstar in the post I replied to, Giroud's presence enabled France to play to those strengths. His aerial presence and hold up play ability unlocked Mbappé and Griezmann to attack from the sides when the midfield won the ball back and quickly played it up front.

I think France's failure in Euro 2020 largely stemmed from not having as solid of a defense and midfield, and trying but failing to adjust to a style of play that wanted to take the initiative. Part of the blame for that goes to Deschamps, and it's even more egregious nowadays because France has an enormous amount of technical ability in their squad at the moment and need to adopt a style of play that accommodates it. But in 2018, it was all about Varane, Umtiti, Kanté, Pogba and Matuidi crushing the opposition and Mbappé and Griezmann being a behemoth on the counter.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

How were we too hard? Not like he was abused or treated badly, or had a volatile relationship with fans.

He was a limited player but it was what it was, signed him cheap and he did do his bit for the price. Not his fault we never had the cash to replace him with a star striker - closest we came was when Wenger had to pick between Özil and Higuain.

Credit where it’s due, he has developed into a good big man. Seems like Arsenal was his training ground.

Arsène made him so much better, it’s like your boy Koscielny came from Ligue 2 a complete liability and Wenger’s coaching almost turned him into a competent defender.

So many players were better under Wenger, Alex Song was looking like Pirlo after years of Arsène’s hard work just to then flop at Barca.

 

[Badger_Revenge]

He just didn't compare well to peak Henry and Van Persie in whose shadows he played. He wasn't nor was he ever going to be like those players but most prem teams would have loved to have him. He also slowed our blistering counter attack, and restructured how we played. He could be frustrating at times, brilliant at others. He was involved in some stunning goals.

He played his role. His success at Chelsea had him doing basically the same thing, but just with a better squad around him. It was the rest of the team that always frustrated me.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Too hard on EPL Champion, World Cup winner, CL winner, three time FA Cup winner, double FA-Cup-winning-goal-assister, 100-goals-for-Arsenal, Serie A-bossing-as-an-old-man, soon-to-be-all-time-top-scorer-for-France Olivier Giroud?

Close the thread.

 

[Entropics]

You going to be like this every time this guy happens to miss a header?

The discussion was over long ago, he won.

 

[goonerfamily]

He was one of the limiting factors to what could've been a really good side in that 2013-2016 period. Not his fault though.

You have to say that he made an excellent career for himself despite his physical limitations. Credit to him.