Wenger & Pires: No new year signings

[Andrew]

OK, this is how it goes... some of you just need to get it in your heads!

We don't have the bloody money! That's what Wenger says! And anyway, let's say we had 5 million. Who would you buy that would help our CL campaign? As I said, we are not near the top by fluke. I reckon that some of you are just so caught up that if we had 2 points more and were on top no one would be complaining!

And to compare our aftermath of the 2002 double to the 98 one is wrong. We lost players like Anelka, Overmars and Petit then. This time we haven't lost anyone significant apart from Adams. The only other difference is that Bergkamp might be not at his best. But Henry has improved hasn't he? Ljungberg and Pires are showing signs of being back to their best. Vieira isn't back at his best yet but should be soon. Cole has improved his defending. Campbell is more settled. We have a regular (and other better options than 2001/02) partner for Vieira. Lauren has more experience at right-back. And Aliadiere and Toure were just about unheard of in the 2001/02 season. We should not be any worse than we were... Of course Chelsea have improved, any club would if they had unlimited amounts of money. And explain how Man Utd have improved? They sold Beckham and now lack creativity. Giggs and Keane are getting older. Since the double season you can argue that their defence and Van Nistelrooy has improved, but not much else. We are still very capable of winning the league, but it seems some of you (after a string of bad results) think that we are ****. Contrast this to the reactions to when we beat Inter 5-1... did you think we needed another striker during that match?

Do you want us to abandon our stadium plans so we can fund money to buy a striker? Do you want us to buy a striker who's cup tied? Or do you want an unknown foreign striker who would struggle to fit in? Or what about an 'ok' striker of the likes of Smith, Viduka or Vassel who would be no better than what we have at the moment?

Some of you have to hop of the crisis bandwagon where everyone thinks "we have to buy or else we're doomed" just because of a few ordinary results. When we put together a good run of results I'm going to sit back and laugh at how everyone's opinion of our team will change. For example, at the start of the season where everyone wanted a new defender or else we were stuffed. See what I mean?

I'm angry as I write this. But what I am angry about is that everyone seems to have lost faith just because we aren't going to bring a new player to the club. If we did buy another player then that's fine. But if we don't it's not the end of the world. Just look at the beginning of our double season. We bought Jeffers, Van Bronckhorst and Wright. All signings to please the fans. But none of them made a significant contribution. It was our original players the won the double. Just have faith.

 

[Ridge]

yeah Andrew you're right. but if we're gonna play with our current squad it will be tough, we cant really afford injuries or suspensions.

i say if we REALLY have 5 million to spend, sign Kluivert, if he wants to come. who cares if he's cup tied. he can still play at the league.

 

[satan_beckham]

however this time its different,the original players have aged,bergkamp form is too far away from that of the double winning season,pires and ljungberg are 2 different players before their injury. And those 'ok' stirkers like u say viduka and smith,they all scored more than wiltord,bergkamp,kanu. And besides everyone knows our squad this season is very thin,a injury/suspension somewhere and we are doom,look how we struggled with cole,henry...if..(touch wood)henry is injured,then what u think will happen???

 

[Andrew]

yeah Andrew you're right. but if we're gonna play with our current squad it will be tough, we cant really afford injuries or suspensions.

i say if we REALLY have 5 million to spend, sign Kluivert, if he wants to come. who cares if he's cup tied. he can still play at the league.

Yes, if we have money to spend we should consider buying a player. But we shouldn't just buy anyone just for the sake of it. Players like Viduka do score, but that would be like buying second best IMO. We shouldn't just buy another semi-good striker, we need a top draw striker. Considering everything, Kluivert looks the best buy. But still, there are a lot of better strikers going around other than Kluivert so perhaps if we save we can spend it on a top quality striker in the off-season, there will be a lot better options available. One of the things srtongly influencing my opinions is the fact that we spent a record fee on Wiltord, and 10 million on Jeffers. Those two just prove that buying isn't always the answer.

Wenger shouldn't buy just to please the fans. But if there is a top striker who's available, would fit out style, would settle in quickly and wouldn't disrupt our finances for the stadium then we should go for him. Otherwise it will be a waste.

And we shouldn't be too concerned. We have scored the second most number of goals in the league. And if you remember last season and the start of this year everyone was calling for the defence to improve. Well it has, and our attack hasn't suffered that much. We should be thankful we have found the right balance. Just look at Liverpool on how difficult it is to find the right balance.

 

[Webdesignlab]

And you misunderstood my Heskey point completely. People support Heskey because he contributes to team play, despite the fact he doesn't score. An honest assessment would say that a striker who doesnt score is like a hooker who doesn't F*ck - useless. Bergy and Kanu are gettting to be our infinitely more talented - but equally impotent - Heskey's.

Fantastic quote .... LOL

We DO need a striker, not because we are doing badly, but that we are going to lose a lot of players very soon. the Heskey point IS valid (if somewhat hilariously put by Lewdikris). We cannot keep players because they help out with goals. Playmakers are needed I agree. But with a great partner that could be Henry and 'striker X' for each other.

Wiltord is not going to work, he has left the club in his mind. Bergie is a class hero, but is over as a potent stiker, as a playmaker he is great, but we need goals, not only MORE goals, but ones from a new plays. Kanu is a circus act that I really like, but he is no goal threat either.

PL clubs are guessing our play. We NEED to score from set pieces. This could easily be like 10 goals extra a season.

Crosses are like open play to us. Every time another team gets a cross, its like a mini penalty for them, for us its just a pass. If we could sort this out with an out and out striker ... man imagine it.

Obviously we are greedy as fans and I fully admit I love the glamour side of football too (not only) so as these greedy fans we NEED more strings to our bow.

Arsenal are on paper the best team in the EPL and I am sure that when Paddy is back a lot of paymaking will return from MF.

Pennant (who is not good enough imo, but I put in his name because a lot here rate him) on the right sending in crosses is almost useless with our current set up, we need a box lover.

Maybe what we are seeing here is a way for AW to see off a bidding war over Reyes or Kluivert. The agents wind up the media saying that this team and that team has offered more money, AW has to either offer more or call their bluff and bow out. The agent will either be back with a lesser demand or if there really is another team THEY get him.

This is what (imo) is going on

 

[GoonerGurjit]

Trabelsi is a very good player but no way we can afford him. Man utd are after him as well and they can easily out bid us

Trabelsi wouldn't cost much as he is out of contract in the summer.
Trabelsi has been nominated for the African player of the year award along with Martins, Eto'o, Drogba and Okocha.

 

[Andrew]

Trabelsi is a very good player but no way we can afford him. Man utd are after him as well and they can easily out bid us

Trabelsi wouldn't cost much as he is out of contract in the summer.
Trabelsi has been nominated for the African player of the year award along with Martins, Eto'o, Drogba and Okocha.

What, no Toure? I can understand if they take the whole year into account. But where was Martins last year? I must say I never heard of him until he played against us. Drogba also seems to have come to prominence this season as well. I suppose awards aren't too kind on defenders unless they are really outstanding.

 

[GoonerGurjit]

I don't think Kolo's done much for the Ivory Coast.

 

[Adam]

That is a great set of players up for the award - all capable of playing for Arsenal.

 

[JazzG]

Trabelsi wouldn't cost much as he is out of contract in the summer.
Trabelsi has been nominated for the African player of the year award along with Martins, Eto'o, Drogba and Okocha.

Other clubs will be able to offer him large amounts of money which we probably won't

Still if he is out of contract in the summer we have a much better chance of signing him than I thought.

 

[Piston Broke]

I can't Realisticly see us going for many players this Summer i think it'll be another dry year as far as funds are concerned

 

[reggiepaul]

I think it is generally an ideal that people can't understand about our club and most importantly how we play.

Andrew states, as I had to state over many posts to jc8gooner (but by the grace of god did), a striker is not the immediate answer to our problems. It's just far too absolute and impulsive a statement to make one the basis of the way we play and win games.

Let's look at our scenario.

A point from the top
FA Cup and Carling - strong contention for both
Knock outs of the Champions league

Now all this is with the players we have in place. At present the argument is we are going to lose strikers very soon. Now this is not certain.

Kanu - No one knows but recently Wenger stated he is in his plans and praised him and Kanu admitted he wanted to stay

Bergkamp - He could be around for another year. He is still playing very well for us

Wiltord - A dip in his attitude and no one knows what is occurring there but there is no certainty on him leaving either and we may well see Wiltord return to his best. Idiotic to negate this. You have to aim for the best.

Aliadiere - Staying.

The quick and fast of getting in another player is :

a) HE MUST be better than the options we have available (above and youth)

b) He must be good enough to adapt to our style of play as well

c) He mustn't break the bank because no player can guarantee success and a massive stake in a player may leave us high and dry.

...so this is where, for Arsenal you have to ask yourself, is a striker really the answer? Who is the player who can answer the above and be cheap and make the difference and do something special for us?

The truth is we are playing more of the 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 role these days like most premiership clubs play. The reason for this is gaining as many chances as possible for any member of the team. We are adopting a total football regime because practically most of our players get in scoring positions.

The Henry scoring scenario I think has got people wound up a lot. Henry scores a lot of goals yes, to our advantage but many have become anxious and worked up about something that hasn't occurred.

Basically the scenario that has delved in to peoples minds is :

"Oh no, what if Henry isn't there, we're done for, the world is over"

The ideal is, if Henry isn't there we won't score. The truth is that isn't accurate and basically insults the rest of our team. Even when Henry HAS been there we have struggled and this leads us back to the idea of no one player guarantees success, as Henry relies upon being fed and worked with so do the rest of our players. The argument against this is look at our recent results (and people panic) but this kind of slump has happened to us before and will happen again but this season it hasn't been as bad. This is our best start to a season for a long while.

This is where the anxiety associated with wanting a new striker is born of impulsiveness and panic. It's not related to the facts at hand and reality of football.

If we hit a really hard patch, then I would say we need to change things around in a big way BUT Arsenal will definitely answer back to this as well. There is no way we will let things just stay as they are. We have had tough games lately and we can't just insult our opposition and say they are crap which is not true. All those teams worked hard against us and in two of the games we should have got a result but this is what happens in football but I am sure we wil pick ourselves up from it.

The realistic answer (and the way arsenal would most benefit) is buying players who can operate with our style and develop around us. Arsenal build players from the midfield out. Henry is one prime example, then Kolo and then developing players as defenders and giving them attacking roles amidst their more positional ones. This is how Arsenal adapt.

Also, in the modern game I don't think a striker MUST score goals and it can't be related to a hooker because that would be an insult to the game especially those who play in it. When our defenders, midfield players score it's because Arsène told them to be there and get in scoring oppurtunities. You need to understand and grasp the notion - this is how arsenal play.

Strikers these days are more so pushing players. The drive us forward in to attacking oppurtunities and from then on anyone can run in and score. This is the best policy to play against a team who in "victorian" and early 20th century would mark an attacker because he was supposed to be the main scorer. Although now 90 years later the game has developed since the World Cup and advanced as more visionary players and managers have adopted unique roles as players.

You no longer have the center half but the attacking center half. You don't have the left sided midfielder but you have have the attacking leftsided midfield poacher (or right sided). You don't ultimately have the striker but the left sided attacking play making striker.

It's a big broad game now made to fool teams but also to develop your own team. This is why teams of superstars struggle because teams win games not players.

Stick Pennant behind Henry as a right sided play making attacking midfield striker :wink: . If anyone questions his pace, don't forget most of his Leeds games and his games for us last year.

 

[Webdesignlab]

Stick Pennant behind Henry as a right sided play making attacking midfield striker :wink: . If anyone questions his pace, don't forget most of his Leeds games and his games for us last year.

Pennant looked decidedly dull last night, I do not think he is the answer. We ahve a perfectly good setup except for one thing. An out and out striker. I agree that there is no point in getting one which is not as good as our options right now.

I'm sorry but Wiltord is going, if not he should be. I like him very much but his heart in no longer with us.

Kanu is a cool guy but no big threat in goalmouth. he is a great playmaker I agree, but not the man for the job.

A strike partner for Henry and we have the perfect team imo. They can playmake for each other or just Henry can if tho other guy is not a playmaker but gets goals (a la RVN).

Im sorry but we DO need a new striker and I thnk it will be Kluivert on loan. Why? How do I know? Well I don't, but it all points to this.

1. Barcelona owe us a lot of money still for Overmars and Petit.
2. They also owe us the gate from a friendly between the two teams as part of the above deal.
3. GVB is a part of the deal.
4. He (Kluivert) WANTS to leave Barcelona
5. He prefers Arsenal
6. He is available for next to no money (for a guy of his class)
7. AW said no big spending no signings, but we are talking of a loan here.
8. Trabelsi and Reyes are still been talked about with David dein actually going to Sevilla to speak to them, why woukd a club that is looking for noone be doing that?


Ok, if I am wrong, well I will still love Arsenal and we will still have a GOD chance of getting a trophy or two. But much better if we spent a little (and yes i am aware that Kluivert is cup tied but not for EPL).

Merry Xmas to all no matter what happens

 

[AFCG7]

I dont think Barcelona owe us anything anymore.. the makeweight in the Cesc deal was for us to write-off the debt..or something like that.

 

[johe]

Well, Gio is still a part of it. Would be a shame to see him leave though, he sure is a quality footballer, but had some injury problems during his time with us. If he goes, I hope it wont be too cheaply.

Just a thought, we could use Gio on the left flank, and Pires on the right?

 

[GoonerGurjit]

Well, Gio is still a part of it. Would be a shame to see him leave though, he sure is a quality footballer, but had some injury problems during his time with us. If he goes, I hope it wont be too cheaply.

Just a thought, we could use Gio on the left flank, and Pires on the right?

I don't think Gio would be much use on the left. He's more of a crosser and everyone knows thats one thing we don't do much.

 

[jc8gooner]

I think it is generally an ideal that people can't understand about our club and most importantly how we play.

Andrew states, as I had to state over many posts to jc8gooner (but by the grace of god did), a striker is not the immediate answer to our problems.

Is arrogance something you strive for? :wink:

 

[JGooner]

I concur with lewdikris. This is a blindingly simple issue, and it doesn’t need to be complicated by a bunch of pretentious gobbledegook from someone who thinks verbosity equals insight.

Bergkamp is 34, has been in decline for years and scores once every few months. Kanu is almost always ineffectual and has a similarly bad strike rate. Wilturd just isn’t good enough and lacks commitment. All three of these are out of contract in 2004. It would be insane for the club to give new contracts to all three of these declining thirty-somethings (Kanu’s official age is a joke – Nigerian birth certificates are generally not worth the paper they are printed on), so you’d have to assume that some, and possibly all, of them will go. Beyond that, what’s left in the way of strike partners for Henry? Jeffers, who is not good enough. And various kids (Bentley, Aliadiere, Papadopolous, Karbassiyoon) at various stages of development.

If you can look at this situation and conclude that we don’t need to sign another striker, you’re having a laugh.

There is a persistent habit among some gooners to exaggerate our merits. Yes, we are doing incredibly well and have done so for the past part of a decade. But this doesn’t mean that we can just keep telling ourselves how great we are, and ignore the fact that – like all teams – we have weaknesses that need to be addressed. This is competitive sport, and we are in competition with Chelsea and Man Utd. I don’t want to ruin the party, but can I remind you that we didn’t actually win the league last year? It’s not as if we are an all-conquering monolith – we are a brilliant team that wins a domestic title every few years and generally flops at European level. Now we are aiming to move beyond that, and that can only be achieved by keeping up with our competitors.

Don’t misunderstand what I’m saying. This is not a criticism of Dein, Wenger of AFC in general. If the money isn’t there, there’s nothing that can be done. My quarrel is not with them but with some ultra-optimistic fans who think we are perfect as we are and don’t need to worry about such grubby activities as signing new players.

 

[JazzG]

Oh we need players, whoever says we don't is kidding themselves.

We have some quality young players but they simply aren't ready yet. Nothing can be done about that, it will take them time to reach a level acceptable to our standards, a shame they aren't there yet but nothing can be done to speed up the process.

When I hear Wenger come out and say he is happy with his squad only a few weeks after saying he is after some players this shows to me that the board have probably told me there is no money so Wenger has to make an excuse. I can sometimes almost feel how frustrated he must feel, most clubs would bend backwards to get him but he doesn't want to leave us, just is given such little to work with. Does such a good job with it as well.

Or maybe this is a smoke screen so we can secretly sign some quality players without anyone knowing................Ok maybe not, a gooner can dream can't he :cry:

 

[Andrew]

Personally, all I hope for is Wiltord to sign a new contract. He could be a great player if he were fully commited to the teams cause, with a bit of consistency as well. But at the moment he seems a lost cause.

And we don't need new players. We are safely in the top 3, just about guarentueed for a CL spot. So the worse we can do is automatic CL qualification, while the best we can do is win the Championship... and there is still no reason why we can't win. On paper it might seem a new striker is needed, but we are second and scored the second most goals in the league... it wasn't a fluke, and name a striker apart from Henry who has been on fire? None. So even with only one striker in form we can still match it with the best. If another striker fires then we will only get better, and I'm sure that at least one (out of 4) will fire.

I agree a new striker is on the cards, but the mid-season is just not the right time to buy one.