When did Wenger lose you?

[celestis]

Yea,that defeat 8-2 was one of the crucial moments for him.Didn't watch Arsenal with same eyes after that ****.

Interesting you guys say that because we were hammered worse by Liverpool and United the season before we won the league , worse because we there was a true rivalry between United and us . The 8-2 we virtually had no quality except for RVP that day .

 

[regniw]

I'm very surprised nobody has mentioned the Kim Kallstrom banter. An actual buy there and the title was ours.

 

[Hyruga]

I'm very surprised nobody has mentioned the Kim Kallstrom banter. An actual buy there and the title was ours.

Not true.

A loanee can make a difference too like Henrik Larsson did for manutd.

The main problem was that Arsenal loaned an injured player.


Last season did it for me. Why Wenger persist on playing Walcott who did so little defensively and offensively was ludicrous.

 

[DanDare]

When he couldn't beat Leicester to the league when we beat them home and away I knew it was over. Had been really hopeful after his achievements under austerity and then once spending started we won the FA Cup

 

[SA Gunner]

This season was it for me where I realized that Wenger can't do it no matter what he does, even last year after the United away shambles and league loss to Leicester , I had some hope in me that it would finally click and he would put his pet projects and lack of planning away and finally do the real business again.

I was wrong, always wrong.

But I think the real moment where it dawned on me that Wenger is simply not good enough anymore was the end of the 2007/08 season. Firstly the way we handled the run in and the summer thereafter was an absolute shambles. That was the last team that actually looked potentially world class.

The death of Wenger's killer Arsenal was when Fabregas left for Barca. Thereafter we have been nothing.

I'll never say a bad word about the man as I have tremendous respect for the man he is, but I don't believe he is the right man for Arsenal anymore. Him and the others up top

 

[The_Playmaker]

This season was it for me where I realized that Wenger can't do it no matter what he does, even last year after the United away shambles and league loss to Leicester , I had some hope in me that it would finally click and he would put his pet projects and lack of planning away and finally do the real business again.

I was wrong, always wrong.

But I think the real moment where it dawned on me that Wenger is simply not good enough anymore was the end of the 2007/08 season. Firstly the way we handled the run in and the summer thereafter was an absolute shambles. That was the last team that actually looked potentially world class.

The death of Wenger's killer Arsenal was when Fabregas left for Barca. Thereafter we have been nothing.

I'll never say a bad word about the man as I have tremendous respect for the man he is, but I don't believe he is the right man for Arsenal anymore. Him and the others up top

Killer Arsenal? We are so bad now that people look back on Nasri, Hleb and Fabregas forgetting that they were part of teams that had the same flaws as the team today. Drawing 4 -4 when 4-0 up, scoring then conceding straight away consistently, being physically overpowered and weak mentally. The only 'killers' were the invincibles and even then Wenger got it wrong tactically in the Champions League.

 

[Penn_]

Lots of pivotal moments;

• The numerous hammerings by other top sides
• Ignoring the midfield for 4/5 years while signing/relying on Arteta, Flamini and Kallstrom.
• Only signing Cech and then Elneny when it was too late
• Failing to progress in the CL
• Leciester's league win last year
• Not signing a striker

Probably a few others but those are the main I think of. Yet with all these I still felt there could be a way back.

Wasn't until this season where we've looked flat in attack and defence apart from the odd game that he truly lost me. Didn't we go through a period where are only two wins were against non league? ****.

 

[SA Gunner]

Killer Arsenal? We are so bad now that people look back on Nasri, Hleb and Fabregas forgetting that they were part of teams that had the same flaws as the team today. Drawing 4 -4 when 4-0 up, scoring then conceding straight away consistently, being physically overpowered and weak mentally. The only 'killers' were the invincibles and even then Wenger got it wrong tactically in the Champions League.

Granted Playmaker, but let's not belittle the work of Wenger post the Invicibles. Yes the same issues were there, they were always there to be honest. But I can honestly say that up to Fabregas departure we looked like a team who could destroy anyone in the world if we got it right on the day. Teams would have to deploy Ferguson like tactics to nullify us, no matter who they were in world football.

Wenger's biggest failing in my opinion is his refusal to add proper game to game planning to his repertoire. The difference between today's Arsenal and that prior to the point of Cesc's departure is vast in my view

 

[Kobi]

It's difficult to narrow it down to one precise moment, like asking an amnesiac to recall the point when he first started to forget things.
It's just been a gradual regression, we haven't had the quality of player since the Cesc, Nasri, Van Persie team, even then we had f*cking Silvestre in defence.
Having Eboue at right wing for 40 games with no goals and no assists was the moment I realised his gift for identifying talent and finding a position was waning/gone.

 

[North5]

2011 for me.

 

[bingobob]

@celestis That day though we had legends like the Horse aka Luzhny and Girmandi at the heart of our defence. You're right that the 6 - 1 game was a mare but you can understand trying to go toe to toe when Henry, Vieira and Pires are on the pitch. If anything that should have served as a valuable lesson if United tore us apart with a half decent attack and horrible defence what could they do against a completely green team. The fact Wenger never learnt from the earlier experience makes the 8 - 2 more Damning. He should have made us tough to beat. Instead he sent us into the game like you'd expect an inexperienced coach to.

I selected the 05-12 period as that period had some horrible moments. The down sizing of the playing staff, the lack of reinvestment into the team 25m for Adebayor where did that go? All the while we were fed lies or half truths about ambition. Wenger defending and standing by poor players. At the point he became a yes man for the board and he needed to go.

 

[The_Playmaker]

Granted Playmaker, but let's not belittle the work of Wenger post the Invicibles. Yes the same issues were there, they were always there to be honest. But I can honestly say that up to Fabregas departure we looked like a team who could destroy anyone in the world if we got it right on the day. Teams would have to deploy Ferguson like tactics to nullify us, no matter who they were in world football.

Wenger's biggest failing in my opinion is his refusal to add proper game to game planning to his repertoire. The difference between today's Arsenal and that prior to the point of Cesc's departure is vast in my view

Agreed. I think the main difference is the level of technical ability. Cazorla, Alexis and Özil aside, our team is ordinary as far as technical ability in possession goes.

Van Persie, Eduardo, Adebayor, Nasri, Fabregas, Hleb and even Song. At least half the team would be technically superior to everyone we faced bar the big guns.

Yet now we have two in our starting line up and I have no idea what Wenger is trying to build. We no longer try to identify young technical players. We buy ordinary 23 - 25 year olds. Watching us attempt to pass the ball and trying to act like we are a flamboyant technical side is exhausting.

 

[Makingtrax]

This season for me. Up to and including last year Wenger has over achieved every year since 2004.

I never believe anything I read unless I can prove it to myself or common sense tells me it must be true. By any analysis I can apply, I see absolutely no reason why Wenger should have won the league by right and beaten all 3 of the richer clubs.

Of course some managers have done it like Ranieri in the UK and even Simeone in Spain. These are very rare events and I'm not personally hammering Wenger because of it. If Sp**s manage it this year that'll be twice in 13 years since financial doping entered the UK. But I don't think they will.

The last 3 years, all top 4 finishes with 2 FA Cups, not outstanding but good. There has been absolutely no reason for the board to sack Wenger.

This year is different. We are underperforming by any measure you can apply. If the board sack Wenger then in this high pressure, results based business then so be it. He's had a good run and it's time to get behind a new manager.

But if by some chance he continues, I'll not be angry. I'll still give my support and money to the club. At 67 he's not likely to go on much longer. In the current climate of fan unrest he's very unlikely to succeed in any case, even if he got his mojo back, so I can't really see there'd be much point in it.

 

[Jury]

This season for me. Up to and including last year Wenger has over achieved every year since 2004.

I never believe anything I read unless I can prove it to myself or common sense tells me it must be true. By any analysis I can apply, I see absolutely no reason why Wenger should have won the league by right and beaten all 3 of the richer clubs.

Of course some managers have done it like Ranieri in the UK and even Simeone in Spain. These are very rare events and I'm not personally hammering Wenger because of it. If Sp**s manage it this year that'll be twice in 13 years since financial doping entered the UK. But I don't think they will.

The last 3 years, all top 4 finishes with 2 FA Cups, not outstanding but good. There has been absolutely no reason for the board to sack Wenger.

This year is different. We are underperforming by any measure you can apply. If the board sack Wenger then in this high pressure, results based business then so be it. He's had a good run and it's time to get behind a new manager.

But if by some chance he continues, I'll not be angry. I'll still give my support and money to the club. At 67 he's not likely to go on much longer. In the current climate of fan unrest he's very unlikely to succeed in any case, even if he got his mojo back, so I can't really see there'd be much point in it.

Have you changed your vote yet?

 

[Notorious Big]

Interesting you guys say that because we were hammered worse by Liverpool and United the season before we won the league , worse because we there was a true rivalry between United and us . The 8-2 we virtually had no quality except for RVP that day .

It hurts.If Wenger already knew that we had minor chance to win there,why he didn't put some defensive tactcis so we can maybe lose 3-1 or something like that ? And people often made excuse that we had bad squad that day.RVP,Walcott,Rosicky,Arshavin,Koscielny,Szczesny played that game and United's squad also had some average players.And also that defeat came after we sold 3 first squad players that summer and we didn't find some replacement for them.

 

[Batman]

I've been disappointed with him at various points probably from 2010ish on. The idea that we couldn't find a relative pittance to fund someone like Alonso or an upgrade on Almunia was a lot to stomach. Failing to invest properly and then watching Leicester win the league was the death knell. That along with the little digs at the supporters when he's come under criticism and the increasing arrogance paired with diminishing performances have turned me off. I used to think that he was a good manager and a good person who was maybe too principled for the modern game. Now I don't even think he's a good person. I think he's an arrogant, egotistical fraud whose luck has run out along with his class.

 

[ModelGooner]

At hello.

 

[Makingtrax]

Now I don't even think he's a good person. I think he's an arrogant, egotistical fraud whose luck has run out along with his class.

That's Donald Trump, you're thinking of. Wenger's the one with the real hair.

 

[FinnGooner]

The question is harsh since I feel that as long as he is the manager of Arsenal FC, I will support him just like I will support the next manager(s). But it was around 2012-13 when I realized that he just is no longer able to provide us the kind of competitive advantage we need to challenge for PL and CL titles and that if other teams do find that sort of advantage, we will only go further down the pecking order.

When Wenger started at Arsenal, he brought us competitive advatage by implementing modern scouting, nutrition and training schemes but now that every team is basically on the top of their game in those categories, the competitive advantage should be found elsewhere, mainly in player recruiting and the tactical side of the game, especially in implementation of detailed positional structures for the team to follow in different situations of the game, something that all top teams in Europe nowadays do except for us. Especially the latter is a field where Wenger does not bring us any competitive advantage, even against mid-table teams. He simply isn't a modern coach who drills the team into a well structured collective that is able to, as a team, quickly react to different situations within a game. He's not clueless as some say but certainly not a top manager either when pure tactical knowhow, or more precisely the implementation of tactics, is discussed. In terms of player recruiting, he is still better than most but not as good as needed to provide us any edge against top teams, especially since we are not an absolute top club in terms of finances. He still spots talent when he sees it but he gives way too much time for players who don't meet the expectations.

In short, I'm still 100% behind him but I don't believe he is able to get better results any more. It is sad to see him ruining his own heritage and reputation more and more each year. But I can see where he's coming from. He truly believes in himself and that's one of the traits that made it possible for him to take Arsenal to the top in the first place. Now that same self-confidence is holding the shovel as he is digging his own grave without realizing it. What a paradox and so sad.

 

[Makingtrax]

Have you changed your vote yet?

No mate. That's staying for posterity. When he's gone next year and the frustration has subsided. I'll look back at that thread and say, 'l always supported you old man'. RIP.