Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by Jose_Reyes_2005, May 31, 2004.
probably the player that meant most to us and left and the club. In letting him go the club condemned us to years of ****e. It was like when paddy was reported as going to manure. . . but it was worse as it acutally happened. Definitely the worst loss
When Liam Brady went to Italy - the worst news in history.
Liam Brady, I am sure he scared a lot of people at Highbury with his skill.
The plan was just that, to have both best friends form clairefontaine at the same club. Shame that hasn't come about and with the misinterprated and overblown explanation of events post Anelka, it may not happen now unfortunately. If we were more so level headed well, it's a big area because it's all an oddity.
I don't think being big was an issue for him anymore. Big for what? Fame? He's done it. He went to Madrid at a very young age after winning the Premiership and FA Cup in the most impressive league and toughest too, towards Real who are the biggest (in terms of success) club in the world. Then he played in huge games, scoring goals and winning the Champions league.
All before he hit his early twenties. Nicolas Anelka was very very big but unfortunately the press took his attitude and stated it as boisterous instead of self confident. Interesting how Rooney or Owen weren't fished for stories of this nature? It's all textual, all interpretation and all that gets people listening or selling papers. If Anelka was a first division fighter with the same experience he'd be praised. He was center stage and beauraucrats couldn't handle an intelligent (aced his IQ tests at clairefontaine) man who wouldn't want to be pushed around by anyone. Of course it was a power struggle between Directors and Board members who wanted to use Nicolas while Nicolas wanted to be treated like the other footballers rather than token article subject for the tabloids or the next money making venture for club entrepreneurs, not fans.
So, he went back to PSG, not any huge club but back home.
Before all this Nicolas continuously highlighted how much he hated press intrusion on his life and he was only 18 or 19 at the time but the press were on to him like flies around ****. Where were Arsenal then? They have worked well since then but I don't think Anelka was given the treatment at a young age and he was center to all this. Our press situation is mockery for people overseas and we also damn it but love it if we have stories that damn people so we can scapegoat. How bizarre.
Now he has won everything. It's done, why win it again? It's some interesting experience for a player to gain so much so young. Yes, it is interesting and good to read about the superstars of the world of football but Anelka has learnt a lot. He has the respect and adoration from his peers at Manchester City (Seaman before and now Wright Phillips) and prefers to stay around. He is still a huge talent and still very young but he is working at a club and saved them from relegation recently as well as inspiring younger talent like Wright Phillips on to better things. There is a unique experiential edge to Anelka that other footballers haven't tread upon.
I never felt he wanted to be at a bigger club. Dein stated that he got an auction going on Anelka and they decided to go to the highest bidder. It was Deins and the boards plans to pick a club for him since he was in contract with Arsenal. So he helped Real and personally achieved the Champions League.
Now this is a player who only has the world cup to go now. A wealth of experience at struggling clubs, helping teams to like Liverpool to second place and also the drive to disappear back to play near his family. In the end I don't think it was Anelka but the fear in a beauraucratic world of football when a player of Anelkas personality doesn't give a **** and wouldn't like to be a part of someones freudian power struggles at the head of the footballing transfer wars. He didn't want to be a toy.
I can't see us blaming footballers as the way forward. It was corporate powers and the beauraucracy at clubs that increased the price of tickets and players. The intervention of media with self interest to attain a bigger price for players. All part and parcel of increasing the price of players who are basically hugely talented and hidden amongst men fighting for them to make more money. We're losing the common touch of football.
Of course he wanted to play, of course he had ambition, no player wins anything without it. There are many factors people dismiss because they don't want to place blame closer to home.
We haven't seen the end of him yet. It's still very much in the beginning.
Anelka was, and is, a very gifted player, wth a great scoring touch. However his departure wasn't sad for the club - I believe it helped finance the London Colney training ground, which has played a big part in maintaining the players' conditioning, and in attracting others to Arsenal - it's a great facility.
Liam Brady's loss was terrible. The early 80's were terrible. Petrovic anyone?
...and air conditioning.
It plays a huge part in Wenger forcing his players to eat tasteless Atkins' type crap and for Parlours ex wife to have a reason for putting him on the straight and narrow and demand loads of money from him.
good comments on Anelka mate. A fair and thoughtful piece but you dont mention the role his brothers had in destablising Nic which lead to the sale and Dein's forced position to get a bidding war going.
I am certainly not saying that "anelka is crap because he left" but I feel he has not become the world great that he had the potential to be. I agree he could yet flower and has achieved much that most would be sick with envy to have, but I dont believe that he is the player he should be and what a partner to Henry he could have become!
There are many players who are perhaps ordinary but are vital to great teams and through circumstances have a cupboard of medals (eg Ray Kennedy). There are also many great players who have won nothing, so as a decider of whom is a great player I would argue that having medals is not a wholey reliable marker but still is an important guide.
I have to accept his Brothers played a part in Anelkas departure but they acted as agents in this light as agents would act. I don't want to go into detail about the role of agents with directors and the money involved. Unforunately this is an area that I know as much about role than anything else. I have at least the view of his brothers and the view of the club as well. It's basically loggerheads and it's difficult to piece together what occurs. I can basically from the role a Director has and the legal intervention the board have realise, they can sue and lay blame on Anelka, which surprisingly they didn't. He played continuously and also had personal problems which went unaddressed by the club. Now the club instead of sueing him or anything else, sold him.
So considering our track record and Anelkas effect on the following season, he did things that were basically football in every way. The amount of blame in his face was unjustified due to this. His brothers were agents and agents act like agents but the club has a responsibility upon players. I am more interested about the respect Anelka gets from our older players who have now left and also his French team mates too. It shows that those closer to him didn't have any animosity for him.
This is why considering all the paper cuttings (many in favour of Anelka) and all the press releases around Europe and the whole FA, UEFA and transfer dealings that were flying out at the time (surprisingly United (Manchester) were angels here), I was sceptical as to the decisions made by Arsenal.
In my view I feel everyone played a part in Anelkas departure and it's not as clear cut as the story that people have presented. Board members have certain interests at play, as do Agents and also players as well.
Overall I find Anelka has had a great experience amidst all this and also achieved everything a footballer can achieve, if not the fame but he is still regarded as world class at a club is not equal to his talents, well the clubs position isn't.
I generally feel sorry for Anelka and in huge way he was basically given blame by many while a lot of what he said went unheard of. He is still young, next season could be interesting and maybe he will gain the fame or maybe he doesn't want it.
Yet overall Anelka unlike other players who played a small role, has basically achieved what he has achieved with his merits and efforts being vital in those achievements. He has done it because he played a crucial role unlike those who gained without doing nothing. Post all this he has led the way of a very unique but exclusively sucessful career, saving teams from relegation and helping teams achieve runner up status (Man City and Liverpool respectively). This amidst personal struggles against his personal principles of not bowing down to the money hungry men at clubs who use talent and abuse player for their own gain.
Many see Anelka as just a bit part player but his individual increment year upon year has been crucial for every club he has played for, so he is successful on the basis of doing his job and doing it well.
Football is cruel and illusory. We all know and have seen what men at the top do to exploit fans and agents and the media to get their own way and these days it is hugely disgusting. This is hidden from fans when we raise these men on a pedestal when in a large part they have self interest as the only integral motivator. Huge salaries and we don't begin to wonder how selfish this business can be. Contract negotiations outlining significant bonus deals and image rights (related to sports and media companies) that basically raise the price of tickets that the average football fan cannot afford.
These areas aren't covered and we blame footballers because like I said we stall and stutter before laying blame towards someone closer to home. It's harsh if one of your own did it all.
nice piece again!
I would have had him back and clearly the players like him more than Gooner crouds.
But I dont believe he has played his cards to his best advantage and although you make good points about what he has done, I think with his pace, power, skill and nose for a goal he could be sitting at the top of the tree, and he is not. I think if everything had been smooth at the club and he had stayed, he would have been a greater player under Wenger's guidance. He may not have had the same medals
Yes absolutely he could be the best in the world right now but I don't see Anelka like that anymore. As much as there was a phase when I felt he should be better than this and he should chill in respect to National team selection, he has appeared to be a great player no matter where he is. Next world cup would be interesting and this coming season could make or leave him as he is now. If Man City keep the same players and bring in some quality center halves they could be built to have enough metal to challenge any team.
He is unique and he has a unique personality. I can understand the discomfort people feel towards an unpredictable individual and there has been a phase when I feel he may do something, which within reason is all well and good for himself but the repercussions could hurt many others. He's like that because he looks out for number one in a cruel industry but the industry isn't all too pretty either, as many would hope to believe.
Wenger played a huge part for him. I would really like to gain a better insight at Arsenal now. A lot of things have been uncovered over the years that makes me scratch my head. I'm wondering a lot regarding generally finance and development. It's all quite peculiar but I don't think I'll find out as soon as I would like to.
Anelka is not a bad player but i dont think hez ever going to get the attention he used to. He turned his back on the club and i felt like killing him after he started the bust up between him and ashley late on in the man city game at highbury ...
But who cares. He turned his back on the club and i bet that every morning when he looks at the mirror, he thinks about what he could have been .... and then goes bak to reality .... Off to training with the likes of Tiatto, Wandchope and the amazingly talented Jihai Sun - instead of training with Henry, Bergy, Bobby, Paddy ........u get the picture ! ;D
Reggie Paul - are you one of Anelka's brothers? Rarely have a read such a pile of crap as you have wriiten on this thread. Anelka has all the talent in the world, except the most important trait to be a winner - character. His successes occured early in his career when people focused on his talent, and played him with some great teams. After a while they all realized he was a prat, without any ability to develop his talents to their fullest. Every one of them shipped him out in the end DESPITE his talent!
Character is the ingredient that seperates the small nuimber who have the talent fron the handfew who become greats. Henry has it in spades (overcoming the Juventus debacle and his early troubles at arsenal), Beckham has it (coming back from the Zanetti incident), Viera has it (overcoming the discipline issues). In other sports look no further than Lance Armstrong, MArtin Johnson, Brett Favre.
Anelka doesn't have one ounce of it, every time he faced something he didn't like he through his toys out of the pram. Was he treated like a commodity - **** yeah - just like every other player in the league. Did he turn it to his advantage and live up to his gift - well he's at Man City now "saving" them from relegation - you judge. Basically he's Gazza with less beer!
At least Gazza enjoyed himself and had a laugh with his team mates!
You may see it as crap but it's the truth and he never once had a bad word to say about the club, while the club had many bad words to say about him. On Character scale that's one point to Anelka, nil point to Arsenal, or more importantly the board. What you see as crap highlights more information regarding Anelka than the ludicrous tabloid attention he received countering the favouritism he gained in the World Press.
Anelkas best friend is Thierry Henry and most of his ex team mates from other clubs like Mcmanaman and Gerrard. He has probably made more friends in his time and people who respect him than any other player in his age group. It's all relaly make believe to give him as much of a bad name as possible.
I think winning everything and being successful in some way whichever club he has been at shows Anelka is a winner.
Yes, Anelka has a gift but he didn't want to be treated as a commodity which is rare in this world of football. Yes, many footballers may say "I love the club" while taking in millionaire salaries but Anelka is and has always been different. He won things but didn't want to be pushed around and didn't force himself to sign a contract that wasn't in favour of him. Later Arsenal implement a bonus scheme where their players earn 1.5 million plus a year. Why? They don't want to see another Anelka incident. We made such a huge loss in our 01/02 double season due to our bonus structure at the club.
Arsenals ticket prices post Anelka have shot through the roof. Why? They realised Anelka was playing hard and then the rest of the players played hard (and got their lucrative bonus scheme), so to avoid an Anelka incident, they paid the sky high wages while dramatically charging double of what most Manchester United fans pay right now.
Now fans blame Wiltord for the same thing. It's Arsenal who have implemented the bonus scheme for players post Anelka because Anelka was just fighting for what every other Arsenal player had. Then every other Arsenal player fighting for the same bonus scheme. Oh yeah, let's praise them but the balance sheet doesn't lie. Money talks, bullshit walks.
Yes they are a wonderful team but Arsenal wouldn't have been Arsenal if a personality like Anelka had never been there. Post Anelka they realised the demands were realistic if they wanted to continue to gain trophies. The first double was good but players have demands, pay me or a I go.
Agents basically do their job and do their job well. One of the Agents for most of the Arsenal players is an "Arsenal fan". He practically sponges loads of money from the players contracts and continues to do so.
Anelkas done it all and practically speaking he is still very young. He has done at such a young age what many players are still fighting to achieve. Successful? Of course he is and he gets paid and is happy with that. how many players do you know who are as talented as Anelka and plays for a more or less mid-table club? Not many but he does it pretty well.
If you're talking about character, I'd respect a player who is unique, highly talented and plays for a weaker club, rather than a player who plays for a huge club and commands a massive salary. That's the agents job, they basically just get their wage sorted. It's disgusting to relate character and strength of it in the world of football where selfish demands are sky rocketing with huge salaries. That isn't character and will never be character either.
Football is an ugly world and people relate ideals of attitude, character, personality to it. Ridiculous in the least. Character and words such as should be saved for people who really make a difference in the world not individuals in an industry that ship a huge cornerstone of the worlds finances for their own self interest. That's far beyond character or personality.
Play harder and become a better player and we will pay you more? Where is the character in that? It's just the traits of a hard worker who wants to excel in their career. It's work not some spiritual awakening. It's ridiculous to relate it to that.
Anelka on the other hand has done it all and Arsenal quite conveniently hid all of this, while later creating that beautiful bonus scheme for the fear of losing more players. Ticket prices went higher and the intervention of the need of a new stadium was created. Due to the fact through Anelka they realised more players would leave so they had to pay bigger salaries. The Overmars and Petit departure was hushed up as part of this too.
To relate all of this to character, personality and any other rather cheap attention to attitude is a joke and a big one. It's all about money and who wants to line their pockets with it. It's never about anything else. We're no longer this club related to football. We have to fight with the big boys and we have to pay our players huge salaries to do that. That's the nature of the game. If you think that is crap, rose tinted glasses it is.
Apparently Anelka was responsible for the dot com boom, invasion of Iraq and possibly the falling of the twin towers - all of those happened whilst he was "around" didn't they. You attribute so much to him it is unbelievable. He left Arsenal because his brothers engineered the move, Real because he was hated by his team mates & coach, PSG for the same reason and Liverpool because they thought "heskey" was better. If playing for a lower rank team is a measure of greatness then Ian Selley playing in the conference must be a God!
I think Reggie made some good points. It's certainly true that his departure left Arsenal in a far healthier state than we were when he arrived, Thierry Henry + £13m for a new training ground for a start. It's no secret that AW was disgusted with our traning facilities when he arrived.
Also, what he says about losing Anelka the way we did rings true, we got caught with our pants down in a way, and seem to have reacted accordingly to ensure it never happens again.
Nope because they are not related to Arsenal and are not related to football either. You may think there is a relationship but that illustrates your rather outlandish and hyperboled mentality upon all things football. Arsenal changed post Anelka, check your pocket.
Learn to be objective and don't rely upon the papers. Let's go back to the papers though, all the teams Anelka left regret letting him go.
Stop talking rubbish and relate your responses directly to what I say and not some over-exaggerated assumptions concocted to satisfy your own insubstantial conclusions. You can continue to hate Anelka because like many "football fans" you have to find someone to scapegoat because you can't think beyond hating someone without seeing the reality of a situation. Instead of counter arguing what I state or disproving it, you exaggerate it and misconstrue it from what is really being said.
By the way, Hoofier and Thompson have both said they regret letting go of Anelka, including a number of the Liverpool players. What have they been like since Anelka left? Not much.
What else do you expect agents to do rather than concern themselves with their clients? Vieiras and Henrys worked very well regarding moves that were going to be sending them to Spanish clubs. That's what agents do.
As Oneteam states the area I highlight where the club changed regarding Anelka is our bonus scheme. Implemented post Anelka.
If you're talking about his brothers "engineering a move" for Anelka, why is this wrong? They are his agents and Arsenal never had any procedure in place to hold on to their players. Our most lucrative contract during this period was in Bergkamps hands. Overmars and Petit disappeared as well. We re-orchestrated our contract negotiations in light of this.
He wasn't hated by anyone. That's stupid. The respect he gains from some of the worlds greats and those that name him (before others) as a friend is numerous.
Yes, I know many Arsenal fans dislike Anelka because he left the club and the club got their pants wet because a player left the club, but that's what all agents do and what all players are involved in. All clubs are involved in poaching and all clubs fight to grab whichever players. As part of this all players, use this to gain more lucrative contracts and bonus schemes at their club threatening to go to better clubs instead.
As for Anelka, he wasn't disliked at any clubs, his sale has always been more than 10 million. If Anelka was so disliked and such a problematic character would he be worth what clubs have paid for him post Arsenal and post Real Madrid?
Anelka was sold from Real Madrid due to their financial turmoil at the time. They were 100,000,000 in debt and even Arsenal were unsure if Real would be able to pay the money agreed from Real. Even PSG were in the same situation. Only the Spanish clubs have had the luck that their economy saves them from debt while all other clubs post 90's have been buying and selling players in order to stay out of financial turmoil. Everyone was buying and selling players and the first to go are always those who can make more money. Anelkas salary at PSG was huge so he had to be loaned and then sold later, against his will but he chose Man City due to it's airline links to Paris. So he could go home, echoed by Anelkas close relationship with his family.
I can't change the way people see the past because the tabloids lacked the resources to write decent articles or the readers to have the intelligence for some objectivity. Arsenal made a lot of money from a player they said "they didn't want to leave", and they also didn't do well to hold on to him either by legal intervention for breach of contract. Nope, they smelt the money and they went running for it as they did with Overmars and Petit because they didn't have a procedure in place to counter this. A lot of huge financial changes occurred post this so we could hold on to players.
If you can look at the logic you'll notice that we learnt a lot from Anelka moving and we blamed Anelka for it, when in fact we were greatly amateurish in contract negotiations and many of our players had gone in the past and only our managers had truly taken us further and further towards glory. Our ticket prices have gone through the roof, beyond the price of Chelseas and Sp**s tickets where Chelseas tickets were more expensive than anyone in the league. Our season ticket prices went through the roof when before this they barely had an increase and were on par with most northern clubs.
The fact everyone misses the idea that it all involves money and it's all about more money is laughable. The club were situated with money on this occassion and this includes Deins and Hill-Woods comments regarding the Anelka departure. The amount of money the club receives from agents and directors receive from agents these days is part and parcel of player transfers and is illustrated in a lot of literature lately and it occurs at Arsenal too. Why it is difficult for Arsenal fans to assume (as well as it has been documented in the same press that damned Anelka but the broadsheets too) that our club is involved in money and as much of it as possible is highly unrealistic, romaticised and ideological. Everyone gets a cut during a players transfers. The only reason people get in a bother is regarding how much of a cut they get.
I can actually understand where ReggiePaul is coming from. I never understood why we were blaming his brothers for because no one else ever has sold a player? It seemed a little inexperienced from our board to go around laying blame just because they couldn't hold on to a player.
I never understood how we got so much money for Anelka when all that the board could do was bad mouth him. This seems to make a lot of sense.
I must agree with this. When other clubs openly state why they have lost players without bad mouthing them in any way, we became quite childish in naming players and attacking people.
It is up to the club to look after their employees and hold on to them, which we have begun to do now. Not blame them when their best interests haven't been looked after, especially when the employee is only 19 or 20 years old.
Watch Arsenal Live Streams With StreamFootball.tv