Who among Ramsey/Özil/Cazorla should be dropped?

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by sammy89, Aug 9, 2015.


Who among Ramsey/Özil/Cazorla should be dropped?

  1. Özil

  2. Ramsey

  3. Cazorla

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. law90026

    law90026 Well-Known Member

    Craziness, that thread brings back memories, mostly bad. It's like a repeat of the mistakes of the past.
  2. Rain Dance

    Rain Dance Well-Known Member Trusted

    It's more mind-boggling that people supports the idea Ramsey on the wings again this season
    Although it didn't work in 2012, it didn't work last season (when we were forced to play Ramsey on the wings)... and spout things like it will work if he is given enough chances or we change the personnel to accommodate him...
    Hegemony, SteveEvets and RandyMarsh like this.
  3. Gooner n Proud

    Gooner n Proud a.k.a. nasri_8 and Voice of Flamini

    No rain dance.

    Podolski-Giroud-Gervinho only started together once and a front three of Cazorla-Gervinho-Walcott never occurred do check your facts.

    Ramsey only began to look terrible on the right that year when Giroud became our main starting striker and with Podolski on the left hand side our attack was too predictable and static with these three it was never going to work.
  4. GunsOfGlory

    GunsOfGlory New Member

    Özil is the most useless out of the 3.
  5. TorontoGooner76

    TorontoGooner76 Well-Known Member

    The reason I would really like us to sign a impact striker is so Theo can play of the flanks again. Between Theo, Alexis and Ox we will have adequate pace on the wings. So back to the original question? I would prefer Cazorla to sit deep with Coquelin as he can make that great first quick pass and get the play started with Özil in the middle to spread the play. So I guess this leaves Ramsey out.

    Interchanging Ramsey with Cazorla gives a bit of a different look, one with a bit more emphasis on going forward. But I prefer the first option as I would really like to see us counter a little quicker with the pace we have on the wings and I feel Cazorla is much better for this.
  6. Rain Dance

    Rain Dance Well-Known Member Trusted

    I wrote Cazorla/Podolski - Gervinho -Walcott. Here is the team sheet http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/aug/24/squad-sheets-stoke-city-arsenal

    You know why it is suddenly become terrible? Who did Ramsey replaced? Theo.
    And Giroud was our main striker from the beginning that season although he didn't play all games.
    Ramsey was terrible on the wings again last season, we were static and Ramsey played without understanding his role. Guess who was injured? Theo

    One thing I am really confused is : Why the heck can't you guys understand HE IS NOT A WINGER? Of course, he can become one if given 3-5 years on the wing but at what COST? He doesn't even play as a right midfielder, he crowded the center area.

    Square peg in a round hole is the problem we've been pointing out in our squad for years, and now we are advocating it?
    All our players must play based on FORM not based on favoritism, that include Alexis, Cech, Per, Giroud, Cazorla, Ramsey and Jack.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
    Mastadon and Godwin1 like this.
  7. Viper

    Viper Member

    Ramsey. He's not a ****ing right winger. Why a manager, supposedly as competent as Wenger, continues to play players out of position is beyond me.

    Did Wenger lose his mind in 2006? Ever since, he has played players out of position.

    I'll half expect him to try Giroud in defence next. Or Özil in GK.

    Despite my preference for dropping Ramsey, I personally would not mind if Özil was sold. He clearly isn't effective in our setup. I'd rather have Gotze or Reus. Or perhaps Özil will take over the no. 10 position when Santi goes.

    Instead of trying to shoehorn everyone in this team, Wenger should really just play to our strengths. We aren't going to win anything with a team full of playmakers.

    And we HAVE to have width and pace on the wings. I also feel a striker as static as Giroud is a massive hinderance to our attack.

    Feels like the setup at Arsenal is all wrong. We should drop the emphasis on 'possession football' and instead attack with pace as we did in the good old days. We were reknown for our counter-attacking play and high tempo. I honestly felt like our best performances over the past couple of seasons were when we played the game at a decent tempo instead of dwelling on the ball for what seems like eons.
    Big Poppa likes this.
  8. Rain Dance

    Rain Dance Well-Known Member Trusted

    Just want to add, many other teams played with strikers slower than Giroud and they work fine. All they did was play width and pace on the wings.
    But Wenger refuses to use this common strategy and chose to do it his way, with personnel that doesn't suit his tactic...
    Big Poppa and thierrytheking14 like this.
  9. krackpot

    krackpot Well-Known Member

    I don't agree with this.

    He was at Arsenal before Ramsey was alive (i think). And most others. He would have known the specific strenghts and weaknesses of these players.
  10. Rain Dance

    Rain Dance Well-Known Member Trusted

    you have been here a long time, just like me. You would know how stubborn Wenger gets with his experiments, he has done it with other players, he is still doing it not only with Ramsey but Özil, Giroud just like he did in the past

    Have you forgotten he played Bendtner & Eduardo in the wings?
    krackpot likes this.
  11. Gooner n Proud

    Gooner n Proud a.k.a. nasri_8 and Voice of Flamini

    If you actually read the article fully you'll see that was a pre match guide. The starting line up was a probable/predicted starters not the actual set for that game as I remember Giroud started his first game for us at the Britannia.

    Giroud was our main striker from the beginning that season? Okay so why did he only start 2 of our first 6 league games? You say Ramsey replaced Theo but again if you actually did hour homework properly you'll see your wrong again as Theo only started once in the first 9 matches before Arsène eventually bought him back in the team for Ramsey in an attempt to balance out the attack due to Gervinho's injury which lead to Giroud becoming our main centre forward generating a problem in our forward line because you couldn't play a system and expect to succeed back then with Ramsey-Giroud-Podolski as it was too static so Arsène selected Theo over Ramsey around November time when Ramsey was benched but guess what? Arsène soon started to see that the new trio of Walcott,-Giroud-Podolski wasn't adequate itself as none of them were good enough on the ball. In fact it took us until March of that season to find a well organised-balanced offensive and defensive side which consisted of a forward line with Santi-Giroud-Walcott with Rosicky in behind them.
  12. progman07

    progman07 Well-Known Member

    1. What about Thierry Henry? He was a winger, played out of position up front. I agree, let's not play Ramsey out wide, but please... no way it started in 2006, and no way it never worked out well.
    2. You can also move Ramsey centrally and drop Özil if you hate him anyways.
    3. System doesn't suit Özil, sell him? Why not fit the system to his strengths? He played very well in any setup that attacked with pace in his previous teams.
    4. You cannot counter-attack at home, at 0-0 against most teams in the PL. This isn't 2002, when even the smallest teams came to the Highbury to play and keep a high line. Most teams will defend with 10 men and you cannot counter something that never happened.

    Oh and Özil already plays the no.10 position.
    celestis likes this.
  13. Viper

    Viper Member

    Ramsey has NO attribute that serves him in the wide position.

    To fit the system to Özil's strengths, you obviously have to drop either one of Ramsey or Cazorla, and buy a superior striker to Giroud. One who actually moves.

    When I say counter-attack, I mean attacking with pace when stealing the ball from the opposition's half - something we used to do quite a lot. Nowadays we do 50 side passes before attempting to walk the ball in the net.

    Our build up play is painfully slow.
    Big Poppa, OSBK and Gooner Zig like this.
  14. infineon

    infineon Active Member

    Effective counter attacking requires planning. This has to be either imposed by the coach or the players have to work it out for themselves. I am not sure either of these things are happening at the moment. The instinct or knowledge of where your team mates are going to be is not there. This is why I think our midfielders end up having to slow things down and take an extra touch. They have to because they need look to see where everyone else is positioned.
  15. progman07

    progman07 Well-Known Member

    We can agree on this, I would play Ramsey in the position of Cazorla, who is neither strong enough, nor does he control the game when needed. Ramsey would provide bigger presence in midfield, and Cazorla would be a perfect squad player, while we could play a fast player on the right wing.

    We do need to attack faster, but I don't think it is due to conscious planning - I think the slow build-up comes from the lack of ideas, and lack of movement.

    I always thought that walking it into the net has been a myth - we simply don't know how to create chances against 10-men defenses, and we lack the players who run at defenders (can you imagine Giroud doing that?).
  16. HollandGooner

    HollandGooner Well-Known Member

    I hope its the last time Wenger puts Ramsey on the right, to open opponents open at the back you need player who like to take on opponents like Walcott or Chamberlain.

    Cazorla deserves to play in CM.
  17. BobP

    BobP Memri Fan

    How about something like this.


    Allows Ramsey to move vertically as he enjoys, Wilshere provides the astute technical ability on the ball with the Ramsey and Coquelin, being defensively competent providing, him with protection.

    Özil on the right is provided an inside route on his left where he can move laterally, in between the lines, the lack of width shouldn't be a problem as Bellerin can hold down that right side along with Özil being a generally intelligent player who can create artificial width.

    I'd be interested also to see how Sanchez would do as a traditional winger on the right.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  18. BobP

    BobP Memri Fan

    Places Özil in that prime half space position.

    I remember Wenger trying this sort of in that 2-1 loss against Sp**s.

    Welbeck failed at running that right side and Özil was on the left with a tight midfield core of Santi, Ramsey and Coquelin.
  19. Gooner Zig

    Gooner Zig AM's Resident Accountant Trusted

    That game was a disaster - gave Spuds way too much respect, defended way too deep, especially after scoring the first goal. All of our mids had a 'mare that day Ramsey, Cazorla, Coq giving the ball away like candy.
    American_Gooner likes this.
  20. Nyctophobia

    Nyctophobia Well-Known Member

    I'd be less irritated about the experimentation with Ramsey out wide if we'd try different things with it at least and not just stick to this one way of trying to make it work, right side is not for him that should be obvious by now considering how many years it's consistently been ineffective.

    Just something different, if he's out wide against Newcastle as well I'll get nauseous.

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