William Saliba: Marseilleing Back To France

Who?

  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 26 17.0%
  • Saliba

    Votes: 117 76.5%
  • Maguire

    Votes: 10 6.5%

  • Total voters
    153

drippin

Established Member
Yeah but he's already featured heavily in Ligue 1.

Last season it was 6 months, sure, but he pretty much played every single minute. Transfermarkt has him down for 20 games at OGC Nice appearing for 1800 minutes (so he didn't actually miss a minute), that's a hell of a lot.

But I know you'll argue that a "full season" means so much more but I don't agree; he's already proven enough in Ligue 1 imo.

As for your first paragraph, I mean surely it'll be similar next season, infact by then presumably Gabriel & White would already be established which might make it harder for Saliba to get in so I don't really understand that argument.

Anyway, at this point I'm truly done with arguing about Saliba, I mean when you've got Wenger making comments like this (credit to American_Gooner for originally linking it):


And you're still not convinced then fair enough I don't think anything anyone will say will change your mind.

But you aren't going to convince me that we have not royally mismanaged this player.
The point is not that he isn't good enough, the point is that they're all very young CB's and need all the minutes they can get currently. And that adjusting to EPL is tough for anyone.

It won't be harder for Saliba because like he has done this season, his quality shows clearly and he has got enough experience from a full season. Then we can sell Holding and Mari, while Tomiyasu is our 4th backup CB + RB, not even needing a fifth likely.

To another poster, Mari is our 4th/5th choice CB who will hopefully get very few minutes. I don't want Saliba to play few minutes, but almost all this season.
 

Maybe

Established Member
The problem could be if his relationship with the club and the manager is permanently damaged. Don't care that much for the rest, we're mid-table with or without Saliba, and results wise it's gonna be a disappointing transition season, but the focus here should be to set everything up for years to come. If Saliba does come back next season then I agree, this loan will be a huge success, if we lose him then someone has to be sacked for that I would say
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
The problem could be if his relationship with the club and the manager is permanently damaged. Don't care that much for the rest, we're mid-table with or without Saliba, and results wise it's gonna be a disappointing transition season, but the focus here should be to set everything up for years to come. If Saliba does come back next season then I agree, this loan will be a huge success, if we lose him then someone has to be sacked for that I would say
I think that is a decent point.
I am hoping he comes back next season & has a good career here.

However regarding if someone should be sacked, what we simply do not know is if there is an issue behind the scenes?
That could be a personal thing (with Arteta) or maybe something about the mechanics of the transfer & a decision may have been taken at a higher level?

Its all conjecture with Saliba
to loan or not to loan that is the question?

Now you have people moaning that Balogun should be loaned, yet a while ago he should be here starting :)
Not long ago Mari were seen as decent enough for backup (By our standards) Now he has been rinsed by the best frontman in the prem he is not.



End of the day if Chelsea loan out young players like they did with Zouma & countless others no one bothers.
 
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hydrofluoric acid

Many Men Wish Death Upon Me
You also have to understand Arteta is also trying to survive here. If the rrlationship is broken thr manager cant be having the player playing games for him. Its difficult to get result if even just one player isnt fully behind you.

But I rather see Arteta go than Saliba. Think this is something Edu should be fixing but he is probably to busy throwing birthdays parties for his children.
 

dka91

Established Member
The point is not that he isn't good enough, the point is that they're all very young CB's and need all the minutes they can get currently. And that adjusting to EPL is tough for anyone.

It won't be harder for Saliba because like he has done this season, his quality shows clearly and he has got enough experience from a full season. Then we can sell Holding and Mari, while Tomiyasu is our 4th backup CB + RB, not even needing a fifth likely.

To another poster, Mari is our 4th/5th choice CB who will hopefully get very few minutes. I don't want Saliba to play few minutes, but almost all this season.

Man you really are taking the "full season" thing seriously, so if (and touch wood this doesn't happen) he gets injured and doesn't get a full season (this did happen at Saint-Etienne, remember he was there for a "full season" after we signed him) does it mean we should loan him out again next season (bearing in mind he will only have two years left on his deal next summer) and keep doing it till he finally plays every single minute in a loaned season? Only then will he be ready to play for Arteta's esteemed backline?

Anyway that aside, if Saliba comes back, signs a new deal and is re-integrated next season, then whilst I still think we could've just kept him and started him alongside Gabriel as he doesn't look any less ready than White (and we could've spent the money elsewhere, like maybe on a better CM than Xhaka), I'll be ok with that and I'd be happy with the trio of White, Gabriel and Saliba forming our core of defenders.

But, and this is where I really don't agree with you and a few others, I don't think it's as simple as that.

When Saliba gets back he'll have two years left on his deal. Why is this important? Because this is the point in which the power has starting shifting firmly into the player's hands.

Given the way Saliba himself has talked about the way Arteta has treated him, given that he went out on loan again this season without even being looked at, given that he chose to play in France rather than England (which is a completely reasonable choice from his POV) and given what happened with his shirt number (which IMO is more important than people are making it out to be), I do not think he simply comes back and everything is rosy.

If Arteta leaves and a new and hopefully much wiser manager/head coach comes in and reconciles with Saliba then I think we could convince him to sign and play for us.

But if Arteta stays I'm not really seeing that Saliba commits his future to Arsenal.

Why would he when Arteta grounded him in the U fackin 23 for half a season and when finally signing his own big money defender brings in a guy that isn't even demonstrably better than him?
 

drippin

Established Member
Man you really are taking the "full season" thing seriously, so if (and touch wood this doesn't happen) he gets injured and doesn't get a full season (this did happen at Saint-Etienne, remember he was there for a "full season" after we signed him) does it mean we should loan him out again next season (bearing in mind he will only have two years left on his deal next summer) and keep doing it till he finally plays every single minute in a loaned season? Only then will he be ready to play for Arteta's esteemed backline?

Anyway that aside, if Saliba comes back, signs a new deal and is re-integrated next season, then whilst I still think we could've just kept him and started him alongside Gabriel as he doesn't look any less ready than White (and we could've spent the money elsewhere, like maybe on a better CM than Xhaka), I'll be ok with that and I'd be happy with the trio of White, Gabriel and Saliba forming our core of defenders.

But, and this is where I really don't agree with you and a few others, I don't think it's as simple as that.

When Saliba gets back he'll have two years left on his deal. Why is this important? Because this is the point in which the power has starting shifting firmly into the player's hands.

Given the way Saliba himself has talked about the way Arteta has treated him, given that he went out on loan again this season without even being looked at, given that he chose to play in France rather than England (which is a completely reasonable choice from his POV) and given what happened with his shirt number (which IMO is more important than people are making it out to be), I do not think he simply comes back and everything is rosy.

If Arteta leaves and a new and hopefully much wiser manager/head coach comes in and reconciles with Saliba then I think we could convince him to sign and play for us.

But if Arteta stays I'm not really seeing that Saliba commits his future to Arsenal.

Why would he when Arteta grounded him in the U fackin 23 for half a season and when finally signing his own big money defender brings in a guy that isn't even demonstrably better than him?
Of course he won't be loaned again, and last season was a mistake.

I also fear what you say about him not wanting to be here to be true, but I won't blame anyone too much before that is clearly true.

I also read that Saliba waited for Nice (or some club) to loan him, but they pulled out at the last minute, so these kind of things make the player have responsibility too, which makes it more likely he might want to stay if the club is not the only one to blame.
 

dka91

Established Member
I also read that Saliba waited for Nice (or some club) to loan him, but they pulled out at the last minute, so these kind of things make the player have responsibility too, which makes it more likely he might want to stay if the club is not the only one to blame.

I think we should get the facts correct regarding that before we discuss how it impacts Saliba's view about staying at the club:

1. Firstly it was Rennes and not OGC Nice, petty but I can't help it.

2. It's true that Saliba waited until late in the transfer window for them to finish the deal, so in part Saliba is to blame there.

3. But crucially; Arsenal then made administrative errors as St Étienne tried to conclude a deal in the final hours of the window and that also fell through.


So yes Saliba's camp should've moved on after a certain point, but this doesn't absolve Arsenal either.

And also I don't think it's only that predicament that will be a source of frustration for the player because we could've atleast registered the kid for the Europa League group stage (we would've had a few days after the window closed to do this) or played him in a game, any game!

But nope, he was sent to the U23 last season before going on loan, again this is squarely on Arteta.

Also look at his own words, my god, I quote this so many times, does this sound like a guy that's overjoyed with his treatment?

"When I saw that the coach changed a lot changed for me too. In this year there has been a lot of change. He [Arteta] judged me on two and a half matches. I would have liked for him to play me more. But he told me I wasn't ready"

"I was waiting for him to give me a chance, but football is like that. When I initially came to Arsenal the league looked very good, so I showed up to training and wanted to train on my own to show the coach I was ready."



That's about as frustrated a player can sound without blatantly calling out the manager (and burning bridges).

So whilst I think the Rennes deal falling through and it partially being the fault of Saliba's camp might make him less antagonistic towards the club and/or Arteta, the latter's treatment towards him in general seems to have done enough damage.
 

Alexs

Well-Known Member
"Well, he’s Spanish so that’s one.

He also speaks Catalan so that’s two and Basque taking him to three.

We also know he can speak English fluently because he’s been talking to us in that language for years. That makes four, not that I’m assuming you don’t know four comes after three.
He's also fluent in Gibberish and Double-Speak. So I guess that makes seven.
 

drippin

Established Member
I think we should get the facts correct regarding that before we discuss how it impacts Saliba's view about staying at the club:

1. Firstly it was Rennes and not OGC Nice, petty but I can't help it.

2. It's true that Saliba waited until late in the transfer window for them to finish the deal, so in part Saliba is to blame there.

3. But crucially; Arsenal then made administrative errors as St Étienne tried to conclude a deal in the final hours of the window and that also fell through.


So yes Saliba's camp should've moved on after a certain point, but this doesn't absolve Arsenal either.

And also I don't think it's only that predicament that will be a source of frustration for the player because we could've atleast registered the kid for the Europa League group stage (we would've had a few days after the window closed to do this) or played him in a game, any game!

But nope, he was sent to the U23 last season before going on loan, again this is squarely on Arteta.

Also look at his own words, my god, I quote this so many times, does this sound like a guy that's overjoyed with his treatment?

"When I saw that the coach changed a lot changed for me too. In this year there has been a lot of change. He [Arteta] judged me on two and a half matches. I would have liked for him to play me more. But he told me I wasn't ready"

"I was waiting for him to give me a chance, but football is like that. When I initially came to Arsenal the league looked very good, so I showed up to training and wanted to train on my own to show the coach I was ready."



That's about as frustrated a player can sound without blatantly calling out the manager (and burning bridges).

So whilst I think the Rennes deal falling through and it partially being the fault of Saliba's camp might make him less antagonistic towards the club and/or Arteta, the latter's treatment towards him in general seems to have done enough damage.
Yeah, like I said, Nice or some other similar club.

Anyway, not much I object with in that post, because I don't like the situation either.

Saliba seems much more mature than Guendouzi (who I always liked too), so there's still hoping.
 

yousif_arsenal

King of Twitter Rumours
Moderator

Seem him and OM not having good game. There were few reports when he was at loan in Nice that he wasn't good winning headers.

Still shouldn't be major problems he having excellent start there
 

dka91

Established Member
Just finished the match and I knew this day would come...the day that Saliba would have a poor performance.

I'll try and keep this brief and I actually missed watching the first half as I was working. I did listen to it though and watched the entire second half too.

But yeah not great man, not great today; he was directly responsible for the first goal because he was overconfident with the ball leading to a very poor pass into his own player (in their own box) who conceded a penalty as a result (I actually missed it but saw it in the after game highlights).

I will say that at the least this is the type of error he should be able to easily stamp out as it was purely overconfidence on the ball but it was still poor.

Then the third goal....give me strength...the Lens attacker; Said, got ahead of him way too easily for the goal, so that's something he'll need to work on. Tbf to him he's looked really good in duels so far and when defending headed chances it's the first time I've really seen him look that weak, but the attacker didn't even overpower him, just wriggled by him too easily.

Yeah, overall he did have good moments too and was good at tackling especially one - ones in the box but the two goals weren't good, I can't cap about that.

Still though I'm not worried about him at all, and we'll see how to he reacts to this game as it happens to every defender.
 

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