Willian: Moving back to Brazil

[Mrs Bergkamp]

He gave the ball away more than any other player during the first half but he's tidy, technical and competent and can knit things together- if more than three other team mates show up. He looked a bit knackered when he came off but apart from Gabriel, Ceballos and Saka, the whole team did.

 

[Makingtrax]

What club would spend £220K a week over 3 years on a 32 year old, playing in the same position in which you've already made your biggest investment. Particularly when you're crying out for players in other positions, like midfield.

Add that to 8 ****ing CBs, and £350K a week to a bloke you've told to go home and there's an argument for the worst run football club in the world.

 

[drippin]

What club would spend £220K a week over 3 years on a 32 year old, playing in the same position in which you've already made your biggest investment. Particularly when you're crying out for players in other positions, like midfield.

Add that to 8 ****ing CBs, and £350K a week to a bloke you've told to go home and there's an argument for the worst run football club in the world.

You make it sound like he is on a basic salary of £220k per week. He is not. Free transfers always have a signing-on fee. Plus that figure has appearance fees included, which might no come true. And bonuses.

"the Gunners agreed a basic salary with Willian of around £100,000-a-week, which is a dip on the £120,000-a-week he earned in west London. However, the Daily Mail claim that Willian was persuaded to join the Gunners after the offer of a huge signing-on fee that will significantly boost his basic weekly salary.

Once this figure is taken into account alongside other ‘loyalty’ bonuses and appearance fees, it’s claimed Willian will earn around £220,000-a-week.

‘The signing-on fee reflects that it is a free transfer and if he sees out the duration it’s a great deal for him.’"

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/13/will...eeing-eye-watering-220000-week-deal-13126623/

 

[Makingtrax]

You make it sound like he is on a basic salary of £220k per week. He is not. Free transfers always have a signing-on fee. Plus that figure has appearance fees included, which might no come true. And bonuses.

"the Gunners agreed a basic salary with Willian of around £100,000-a-week, which is a dip on the £120,000-a-week he earned in west London. However, the Daily Mail claim that Willian was persuaded to join the Gunners after the offer of a huge signing-on fee that will significantly boost his basic weekly salary.

Once this figure is taken into account alongside other ‘loyalty’ bonuses and appearance fees, it’s claimed Willian will earn around £220,000-a-week.

‘The signing-on fee reflects that it is a free transfer and if he sees out the duration it’s a great deal for him.’"

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/13/will...eeing-eye-watering-220000-week-deal-13126623/

Nit picking on the money and missed the real points I made bro.

 

[drippin]

Nit picking on the money and missed the real points I made bro.

Just doing my part on correcting false information from spreading.

 

[Makingtrax]

Just doing my part on correcting false information from spreading.

The truth is we don't know exactly what he's getting paid. But it's a lot, and we could get better value for the team in another position where we're desperate for an upgrade.

 

[drippin]

The truth is we don't know exactly what he's getting paid. But it's a lot, and we could get better value for the team in another position where we're desperate for an upgrade.

Well, Arteta clearly thought he was good value and a needed addition, and I agree with him. Doesn't block the path for our youth badly either as he is older player.

So tell me where we could have gotten EPL top 4 proven player for lesser wages and no transfer fee? He was one of Chelsea's best players last season.

No way Arteta will not also get upgrade to the midfield. He has talked about certain positions lacking while others have too many options.

 

[Rex Stone]

What club would spend £220K a week over 3 years on a 32 year old, playing in the same position in which you've already made your biggest investment. Particularly when you're crying out for players in other positions, like midfield.

Add that to 8 ****ing CBs, and £350K a week to a bloke you've told to go home and there's an argument for the worst run football club in the world.

I get what you’re saying but Willian is very versatile and could conceivably line up as a 10 with Pepe and Auba wide.

He offers something that no one in the squad can do outside of the kids which is receive the ball on the half turn, carry and advance moves through passing.

It sounds so simple but we’re so starved of creativity he was a vital signing. He can play across the pitch as well, I noticed on Saturday he does exactly what he did at Chelsea which is move into whatever spaces the opposition give him.

If we got Partey over the line, you could play a variant of a 4-4-2 with the ball and push Willian and Pepe wide of the strikers that becomes a 4-3-3 without the ball because Willian likes to drop in and help out midfield.

A front line of just Pepe-Laca-Auba doesn’t work as we saw last season. There’s too big a disconnect between our undynamic midfield.

 

[Makingtrax]

I get what you’re saying but Willian is very versatile and could conceivably line up as a 10 with Pepe and Auba wide.

He offers something that no one in the squad can do outside of the kids which is receive the ball on the half turn, carry and advance moves through passing.

It sounds so simple but we’re so starved of creativity he was a vital signing. He can play across the pitch as well, I noticed on Saturday he does exactly what he did at Chelsea which is move into whatever spaces the opposition give him.

If we got Partey over the line, you could play a variant of a 4-4-2 with the ball and push Willian and Pepe wide of the strikers that becomes a 4-3-3 without the ball because Willian likes to drop in and help out midfield.

A front line of just Pepe-Laca-Auba doesn’t work as we saw last season. There’s too big a disconnect between our undynamic midfield.

I didn't think Willian was effective on Saturday at all. Agree about the disconnect, but it's not the fault of the forwards. Under Arteta, at the end of last season all three of them were coming deeper and deeper to try and bridge the divide.

No one would say Willian is a bad player.Even though he's now 32 he's still sharp and an effective provider. But 5 important points:
1. if we were City and money was no object then of course he's a great acquisition, but we're not, and for me those wages are needed in midfield rather in a position we've very heavily invested in. If we don't improve the midfield this will be another poor window.
2. Until Arteta starts changing his system, he's simply playing where Pepe does
3. 3 years is too long a contract for a 32 year old
4. Pepe is going backwards from a good end to a mediocre season where he was struggling to get to grips with the pace, like others have done before him. This signing shows a lack confidence in his ability. You don't spend £70m and then undermine your purchase.
5 Pepe is both a goal scorer and a provider, and this is what we desperately need, we can't just rely on Auba. We need him playing well.

 

[Rex Stone]

I didn't think Willian was effective on Saturday at all. Agree about the disconnect, but it's not the fault of the forwards. Under Arteta, at the end of last season all three of them were coming deeper and deeper to try and bridge the divide.

No one would say Willian is a bad player.Even though he's now 32 he's still sharp and an effective provider. But 5 important points:
1. if we were City and money was no object then of course he's a great acquisition, but we're not, and for me those wages are needed in midfield rather in a position we've very heavily invested in. If we don't improve the midfield this will be another poor window.
2. Until Arteta starts changing his system, he's simply playing where Pepe does
3. 3 years is too long a contract for a 32 year old
4. Pepe is going backwards from a good end to a mediocre season where he was struggling to get to grips with the pace, like others have done before him. This signing shows a lack confidence in his ability. You don't spend £70m and then undermine your purchase.
5 Pepe is both a goal scorer and a provider, and this is what we desperately need, we can't just rely on Auba. We need him playing well.

I disagree he wasn’t effective. For me he was comfortably our best player. Once he went off second half our level plummeted. He’s never going to make those killer Özil final passes but he does everything else leading up to it.

I think the biggest complement to him is looking at Chelsea without him. Lampard wanted to keep him even with their additions and you can see why yesterday.

They have a pretty static midfield like us and apart from long balls in behind the Liverpool high line to Werner there wasn’t any creativity or link play at all. Havertz and Mount were totally isolated and couldn’t even touch the ball.

His contract might be too long but if we get two good years out of him I’m happy that it was worth it, it’s the price you pay taking starters away from your rivals.

On your points about him being detrimental to Pepe it’s the sunk cost fallacy. If something’s not working it’s sometimes right not to pour more and more resources into it. Willian for now will provide competition and it’s up to Pepe to rise to the challenge until the system changes.

 

[A_G]

The manager (who has come out and said he didn't want Pepe anyway) and transfer guy who brought Nico in aren't here anymore.

Maybe Arteta and Edu don't overly rate Pepe, especially as they need a different type of wide player to balance out Auba on the other side anyway.

Arteta has talked about using Willian in different positions, especially centrally. I don't think his arrival is an indictment of Pepe.

 

[Riou]

Arteta has talked about using Willian in different positions, especially centrally. I don't think his arrival is an indictment of Pepe.

Was really confident of Pepe having a great year after the Final last season, have become so worried about Nico recently...have a bad feeling that unless we sign Partey, Pepe is done here

 

[A_G]

Was really confident of Pepe having a great year after the Final last season, have become so worried about Nico recently...have a bad feeling that unless we sign Partey, Pepe is done here

Both Sane and Sterling have given Arteta a lot of credit for their improvement, we should give him a chance to work with Pepe before we write him off imo.

 

[drippin]

I didn't think Willian was effective on Saturday at all. Agree about the disconnect, but it's not the fault of the forwards. Under Arteta, at the end of last season all three of them were coming deeper and deeper to try and bridge the divide.

No one would say Willian is a bad player.Even though he's now 32 he's still sharp and an effective provider. But 5 important points:
1. if we were City and money was no object then of course he's a great acquisition, but we're not, and for me those wages are needed in midfield rather in a position we've very heavily invested in. If we don't improve the midfield this will be another poor window.
2. Until Arteta starts changing his system, he's simply playing where Pepe does
3. 3 years is too long a contract for a 32 year old
4. Pepe is going backwards from a good end to a mediocre season where he was struggling to get to grips with the pace, like others have done before him. This signing shows a lack confidence in his ability. You don't spend £70m and then undermine your purchase.
5 Pepe is both a goal scorer and a provider, and this is what we desperately need, we can't just rely on Auba. We need him playing well.

Can you answer to this I asked above?

"So tell me where we could have gotten EPL top 4 proven player for lesser wages and no transfer fee? He was one of Chelsea's best players last season."

People still don't realize that Chelsea offered him 2 year contract and only way to get him from our rivals was to offer 3 years. It's really weird.

 

[Makingtrax]

I disagree he wasn’t effective. For me he was comfortably our best player. Once he went off second half our level plummeted. He’s never going to make those killer Özil final passes but he does everything else leading up to it.

I think the biggest complement to him is looking at Chelsea without him. Lampard wanted to keep him even with their additions and you can see why yesterday.

They have a pretty static midfield like us and apart from long balls in behind the Liverpool high line to Werner there wasn’t any creativity or link play at all. Havertz and Mount were totally isolated and couldn’t even touch the ball.

His contract might be too long but if we get two good years out of him I’m happy that it was worth it, it’s the price you pay taking starters away from your rivals.

On your points about him being detrimental to Pepe it’s the sunk cost fallacy. If something’s not working it’s sometimes right not to pour more and more resources into it. Willian for now will provide competition and it’s up to Pepe to rise to the challenge until the system changes.

Best player! You're just making stuff up now
Arseblog 5 off the pace
90 min 6 not at his best
Squawka 6 underwhelming
Football London 5 struggled as the game went on
Just Arsenal 5 Poor on the night
The hard tackle 5 Willian was well off his best

 

[Makingtrax]

Can you answer to this I asked above?

"So tell me where we could have gotten EPL top 4 proven player for lesser wages and no transfer fee? He was one of Chelsea's best players last season."

People still don't realize that Chelsea offered him 2 year contract and only way to get him from our rivals was to offer 3 years. It's really weird.

So you come home with a good deal on a car when you already have a perfectly good one in the garage. And when your partner says wtf did you buy that for, you say tell me where I could have got a better deal than that.

 

[Furious]

Yeah not sure what @Rex Banter is on about. Willian was far from our best player, he did nothing of note and was rightfully hooked.

 

[drippin]

So you come home with a good deal on a car when you already have a perfectly good one in the garage. And when your partner says wtf did you buy that for, you say tell me where I could have got a better deal than that.

You can tell that to Arteta. He clearly wanted a proven winger/amf to try for top 4 this season.

And he got that with a free transfer, one of the best players from last season in a top 4 team.

You know, big clubs have depth in their line-up.

 

[Rex Stone]

Best player! You're just making stuff up now
Arseblog 5 off the pace
90 min 6 not at his best
Squawka 6 underwhelming
Football London 5 struggled as the game went on
Just Arsenal 5 Poor on the night
The hard tackle 5 Willian was well off his best

It’s not scientific of course and there is no right opinion. Just was my take away from the game. Xhaka was immense second half but first half thought Willian was our best player.

I felt he was at the heart of everything good that we did.

 

[Makingtrax]

You can tell that to Arteta. He clearly wanted a proven winger/amf to try for top 4 this season.

And he got that with a free transfer, one of the best players from last season in a top 4 team.

You know, big clubs have depth in their line-up.

Well w've got plenty of depth at CB, all 8 of them, two 1st team right wingers. Would rather get some evenness myself.